Obama gets Nobel Peace Prize

[jvc]

My apologies to everyone else..............
When he got even more childish, and started the name calling, I decided he wasn't going to have ALL the fun, so I engaged in it also. Those like him is why most forums won't allow discussions about politics or religion. Someone always starts calling someone else a liar or stupid, then the fun starts.
I won't burden y'all anymore with my beliefs, because I saw in November that I'm in the minority of this election.

[JohnMichael]

I moved this thread to the Steel Cage because tempers were rising. I will not delete one opinion without deleting the opposing opinion. Anyone who does not like what is being written please practice your freedom of not having to read what is posted. Some of your posts were reported during other heated threads by members outside the US. Welcome to the Steel Cage.

[GMichael]

I disagree with most of what has been written on both sides. Everyone seems to answer only half of the points made by the other side, conveniently overlooking anything that they can not disprove. Eventually it brakes down to rock throwing. It's no wonder that nothing gets resolved.

I didn't vote for Obama and am not convinced that he was the best choice, but he's there now and I will back him 100% until he proves that he doesn't deserve my backing. If I disagree with him, I will say that I disagree with him, but I won't slander the man. He doesn't deserve that. Many people have not given past presidents that same courtesy, but that doesn't mean that we can not start now.

[3LB]

I didn't vote for Obama and am not convinced that he was the best choice, but he's there now and I will back him 100% until he proves that he doesn't deserve my backing. If I disagree with him, I will say that I disagree with him, but I won't slander the man. He doesn't deserve that. Many people have not given past presidents that same courtesy, but that doesn't mean that we can not start now.

As I had pointed out earlier, it isn't unusual that a sitting president gets scrutinized to the point of minutiae, but it comes with the territory; its why they get paid the big bucks. I doubt seriously that Obama is getting it any worse than any other president has in the past. Certainly, he doesn't deserve to be slandered (where?) but by the same token, dissenting opinions don't deserve to be labeled 'racist'.

While I brought it up, I'm getting sick and tired of one side or the other trying to play the race card, especially where it doesn't really pertain to them. Unless someone tells me they're a racist I assume otherwise. But some of you are imbued with special powers of perception that allow you to sling the word around free and easy. You can't judge racism from an inference, not to mention the fact that its just pretencious as hell, I don't care if you're non-caucasian, differently oriented, abled or otherwise. Who cares and big deal. Empathy is a courtesy one human being bestows upon another, it is not a sword of justice.

[nightflier]

To say you weren't aware of it'sse in the current mixed society tells me at least one of two things about you: 1) You have no social contact with blacks on an extended basis

My wife of 17 years was an active member of The Nation when we met. Is that close enough? Granted, she's changed many of her views since then, but you're way off base on your guesses about me.

2) You lie with the ease of a consumate liberal when you say you never knew it could be considered racist.

I am a citizen, but have not lived in this country most of my life, so understanding all its cultural idioms isn't always easy. Whatever. I'm done trying to explain it and you're just trying to revive something that is obviously of no interest to anyone else. Let is go already.

1. He didn't ask for the award.

2. He didn't campaign for the award.

3. He donated all the money to charities.

4. Admitted that others were equally or MORE deserving.

I didn't know about #3, although many Nobel Laureates do this. As a matter of fact, the minute they are given the award, winners are hounded by charities and lobbyists, from what I've read, so I suppose this comes with the territory. I think my disappointment is less with Obama than it is with the criteria that the committee uses.

Now our president could very well do great things. I sincerely hope that the talks with Iran will go well, and I also think he could have a very positive influence on the Palestinian-Israeli question. If these diplomatic moves are successful, then I could see an easier path out of Iraq, and perhaps even Afghanistan, so there is tremendous potential and impetus behind this president. But how much of this could have been foreseen when he took office and the Nobel committee was finalizing its decision?

This is why I consider potential a rather specious criteria. What if another winner of the Nobel Peace prize does not follow through with that potential, or worse, goes in a totally different direction afterwards, pursuing bellicose goals; then what? Does the award get rescinded? Does the winner have to give the money back? And what if s/he no longer has the money? I don't know the answers to these questions, and perhaps it has never been necessary to ask them.

I am also quite aware that asking them now, with Obama having just received it, could be construed as incendiary in itself. But thinking more generally, and presuming that we are not just talking about Obama, should the Nobel committee award prizes based primarily on potential? What if next year a Nobel Peace prize was awarded to Raul Castro, or Hu Jintao as an incentive, but before they concluded any major policy changes? Are they equally deserving of it than let's say Aung San Suu Kyi or Desmond Tutu? I still think that awards should be given based on work done. If it's based primarily on potential, then the Nobel committee gets into the murky position of influencing policy.

[markw]

My wife of 17 years was an active member of The Nation when we met. Is that close enough? Granted, she's changed many of her views since then, but you're way off base on your guesses about me

I have no idea what "The Nation" is, nor doI care, but I can say with certainty that if you used that phrase in the context you used it here in a minority laced room, all talk would cease and all eyes would turn towards you.

FWIW, in the Toastmasters group of which my wife and I are members, I am the only one not "of color" and this subject was brought up long ago.

I am a citizen, but have not lived in this country most of my life, so understanding all its cultural idioms isn't always easy.

Yet you have no problem criticizing this country. Interesting... Consider yourself more educated than you were two days ago. No charge...

Whatever. I'm done trying to explain it and you're just trying to revive something that is obviously of no interest to anyone else. Let is go already..

Hey, this was dead since Friday. You're the one who ressurected it to try to save face, not me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

As I had pointed out earlier, it isn't unusual that a sitting president gets scrutinized to the point of minutiae, but it comes with the territory; its why they get paid the big bucks. I doubt seriously that Obama is getting it any worse than any other president has in the past. Certainly, he doesn't deserve to be slandered (where?) but by the same token, dissenting opinions don't deserve to be labeled 'racist'.

While I brought it up, I'm getting sick and tired of one side or the other trying to play the race card, especially where it doesn't really pertain to them. Unless someone tells me they're a racist I assume otherwise. But some of you are imbued with special powers of perception that allow you to sling the word around free and easy. You can't judge racism from an inference, not to mention the fact that its just pretencious as hell, I don't care if you're non-caucasian, differently oriented, abled or otherwise. Who cares and big deal. Empathy is a courtesy one human being bestows upon another, it is not a sword of justice.

Your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I don't agree. When a person uses langauge used by known racists, then it puts him behind the racist bullet. So based on what you are saying, a white person can call a African American the N word, and by your logic he would NOT be racist. I do not agree with that at all.

[3LB]

So based on what you are saying, a white person can call a African American the N word, and by your logic he would NOT be racist. I do not agree with that at all.

you mean like...Nice?


geez dude...that's a stretch even for you. First off, unless the derrogatory remark is directed to you, or a close friend or family member, what's it to you?

You can certainly disagree with the remark, hate it, want to retaliate or what have you, but if I the person being called such a word was present, I could only defer to him/her as to how to respond, because it ain't my call. I can have their back, but it isn't my horse to ride. To assume otherwise is pretencious.

[3LB]

My wife of 17 years was an active member of The Nation when we met.

FWIW, in the Toastmasters group of which my wife and I are members, I am the only one not "of color" and this subject was brought up long ago.

I used to own a Coolio CD and Sanford & Son was my fave show as a kid. I know all the words to The Jeffersons and Good Times themes (The Jefferson theme was sang by the same women who also played neighbor Willona on Good Times - and I didn't even wiki that so there).

[JohnMichael]

you mean like...Nice?


First off, unless the derrogatory remark is directed to you, or a close friend or family member, what's it to you?

but if I the person being called such a word was present, I could only defer to him/her as to how to respond, because it ain't my call. I can have their back, but it isn't my horse to ride. To assume otherwise is pretencious.

Wow, I think it is all of our jobs to stop hate and work for equality. Every human has value and deserves respect. Words of hate are harmful and demeaning.

[3LB]

Wow, I think it is all of our jobs to stop hate and work for equality. Every human has value and deserves respect. Words of hate are harmful and demeaning.

Well John, if you and I were in an actual, platonic, social, physical, platonic friendly basis (did I mention platonic) and you were accosted verbally with homophobic slurs, I would have your back (did I mention platonic), but I wouldn't presume to be more angry about it than you are, nor should I want to make some demonstration that might obstruct your ability to act in whatever manner you deem fit.

This is not the same as condoning racist activity. I don't think anyone here has exibited any racial biggotry whatsoever. I don't think it is anyone's place to go around acting as thought police, that's all my comments above was about. Most of the time, its just a cheap way of deflecting, and isn't piggybacking someone else's cause for selfish benefit just tad insulting to those who actually do know discrimination first hand, and don't need my second hand experience to validate theirs?

[nightflier]

If you used that phrase in the context you used it here in a minority laced room, all talk would cease and all eyes would turn towards you.

I certainly have made mistakes of speech in mixed company, that kind of goes with the territory. Most people have, even Obama. It's how we learn from it and what we do afterward that matters.

FWIW, in the Toastmasters group of which my wife and I are members, I am the only one not "of color"

This seems to be of some importance to you. So from what I'm gathering, your wife is "of color"? Good for you, it helps with those situations when you say something stupid at a toastmaster's meeting, but I'm going to guess this hasn't gone very far in your case. Click click!

Yet you have no problem criticizing this country.

No I have no issues with "this country," but I am troubled by the things said by some of the people in it, like you.

Hey, this was dead since Friday. You're the one who ressurected it to try to save face, not me.

I wasn't online this weekend - and I certainly would have no interest in resurrecting the topic. I am also not "trying" anything, I am acknowledging that I made a mistake of speech and am owning up to it. Now with that, could we please drop this?

[JohnMichael]

Well John, if you and I were in an actual, platonic, social, physical, platonic friendly basis (did I mention platonic) and you were accosted verbally with homophobic slurs, I would have your back (did I mention platonic), but I wouldn't presume to be more angry about it than you are, nor should I want to make some demonstration that might obstruct your ability to act in whatever manner you deem fit.

Okay here we go again. Your use of platonic 4 times reminds me of some prejudicial thinking. The stereotype that gay men are attracted to all men is ridiculous. Most men straight or gay are attracted to a type or someone similar to their type. I am so very sure you are not my type. Believe me you are so incredibly safe.

[markw]

I certainly have made mistakes of speech in mixed company, that kind of goes with the territory. Most people have, even Obama. It's how we learn from it and what we do afterward that matters.

Well,ince yu always choose your words so carefully, it sure looked to me like you chose those words simply to be cute. Now, c'mon up to this area and say it in a crowd of minorities and see how cute they see it.

This seems to be of some importance to you. So from what I'm gathering, your wife is "of color"? Good for you, it helps with those situations when you say something stupid at a toastmaster's meeting, but I'm going to guess this hasn't gone very far in your case. Click click!

Actually, had you not thrown out your wife's mebership in whatever thing that is you mention as some sort of justification for your pompus remarks, I never would have brought it up. Actually, I do quite well in mixed crowds. If your posting here is any indication of your experience in this area, you wouldn't last one hour.

No I have no issues with "this country," but I am troubled by the things said by some of the people in it, like you.

Funny, I feel the exact same way, and I was born here and have lived here all my life.. And there's not a thing you can do about it, either, although I know you would once he gets his "thought police" get up and running.

I wasn't online this weekend - and I certainly would have no interest in resurrecting the topic. I am also not "trying" anything, I am acknowledging that I made a mistake of speech and am owning up to it. Now with that, could we please drop this?

Well, if you have no interest in resurrecting it, why did you resurrect it then?

But, I'll let it be if you will.

[3LB]

Your use of platonic 4 times reminds me of some prejudicial thinking.

I'm ironical that way. No preconceived notions here. It was mostly so no one else would chime in and make something outta nothin. But, point served and point taken.

FWIW: I don't think I'm much of anyone's type really

[JohnMichael]

FWIW: I don't think I'm much of anyone's type really

As a wise friend once told me "We are all someone's fantasy".

Therefore you are someone's type. As you emphasized platonic I emphasized no need to worry. When you start a thread you can lock it.

[bobsticks]

I didn't vote for Obama and am not convinced that he was the best choice, but he's there now and I will back him 100% until he proves that he doesn't deserve my backing. If I disagree with him, I will say that I disagree with him, but I won't slander the man. He doesn't deserve that. Many people have not given past presidents that same courtesy, but that doesn't mean that we can not start now.

Just some random thoughts...and mebbe my perspective is a bit skewed...but I think there's something that Gm gets...and I know Terrence and Worf get it...President Obama is "our guy"...he's what we have...

Is the award, perhaps, premature?...Maybe...but something to consider...there ain't enough rugged individualism...and there damn sure ain't enough ammo in this country to combat the forces at play in the rest of the world...

Sometimes, usually, things are about "control"...we can't control the world...if our President can elevate the level of discourse, if he can create an environment that is conciliatory or ameliorating then we need to support him and his efforts...

The forces at play in other countries...those that control the means of production...the economic power...are creating permanent underclasses...creating poverty....everyday the Arab world grows younger, poorer, and more resentful...we've created their oppressors...because we are their oppressors...

If through diplomacy our President can do anything to make our world safer we, as citizens, have an obligation to support him...

[JohnMichael]

Just some random thoughts...and mebbe my perspective is a bit skewed...but I think there's something that Gm gets...and I know Terrence and Worf get it...President Obama is "our guy"...he's what we have...

Is the award, perhaps, premature?...Maybe...but something to consider...there ain't enough rugged individualism...and there damn sure ain't enough ammo in this country to combat the forces at play in the rest of the world...

Sometimes, usually, things are about "control"...we can't control the world...if our President can elevate the level of discourse, if he can create an environment that is conciliatory or ameliorating then we need to support him and his efforts...

The forces at play in other countries...those that control the means of production...the economic power...are creating permanent underclasses...creating poverty....everyday the Arab world grows younger, poorer, and more resentful...we've created their oppressors...because we are their oppressors...

If through diplomacy our President can do anything to make our world safer we, as citizens, have an obligation to support him...

Yes, yes, and absolutely yes.

[3LB]

When you start a thread you can lock it.

I'll take that under consideration

[3LB]

Just some random thoughts...and mebbe my perspective is a bit skewed...but I think there's something that Gm gets...and I know Terrence and Worf get it...President Obama is "our guy"...he's what we have...

Is the award, perhaps, premature?...Maybe...but something to consider...there ain't enough rugged individualism...and there damn sure ain't enough ammo in this country to combat the forces at play in the rest of the world...

Sometimes, usually, things are about "control"...we can't control the world...if our President can elevate the level of discourse, if he can create an environment that is conciliatory or ameliorating then we need to support him and his efforts...

The forces at play in other countries...those that control the means of production...the economic power...are creating permanent underclasses...creating poverty....everyday the Arab world grows younger, poorer, and more resentful...we've created their oppressors...because we are their oppressors...

If through diplomacy our President can do anything to make our world safer we, as citizens, have an obligation to support him...

Well, my granny always said, "if ya ain't got nothin nice to say..."

[bobsticks]

Well, my granny always said, "if ya ain't got nothin nice to say..."

Yer Granny grew up in a different era...welcome to the New World Order....

I can't speeak to Iraq or Iran....but I can tell you....you don't wanna go to the desert, T....