Week 2: 50 Records That Changed the Face of Music.

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Originally Posted by 3-LockBox

Me too. That'll be an interesting thread as well. I own a copy of Britches Bew. Its one of a few of my 'everyone else owns a copy' purchases.

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Actually, this isn't going to happen (I peeked)

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Originally Posted by BradH

You know why Yes, Genesis and King Crimson were so great?

They didn't grow up listening to Yes, Genesis and King Crimson.

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Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk

Such a great line, I had to quote it for appreciation.

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You beat me to it Dusty. I laughed out loud in appreciation when I read that line.

I still love Dream Theater, however.

How about Santana?:idea:

Well I guess I'll be known as the elitist but with regard to the food chain of popular rock music genres, preferring the Stones over Dream Theater is nothing short of bewildering.

Its understood if you disagree; I remain indifferent.

...myself...I think The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close To The Edge contain some of the best and most creative music that exists in rock...Where Yes went after that, I haven't a clue...IMO the best thing to come out of Genesis was Peter Gabriel's "Salisbury Hill"...King Crimson had Greg Lake, one good picker and ELP did have it's moments. His "I Believe In Father Christmas" with it's nod to "Troika" from Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kije' Suite never fails to recall the folly of it all and bring me close to the edge (so to speak)...

I like some progressive...I like some heavy metal...put 'em together in a group like Dream Theater and...it ain't a match made in heaven IMHO...

jimHJJ(...FWIW...)

I think The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close To The Edge contain some of the best and most creative music that exists in rock...Where Yes went after that, I haven't a clue...
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Frankly, on a dare, they went to Topographic.
After that they reached way out to Relayer.

I'm one of the few that actually love most of the material in those albums.

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Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

"Stones and others similar to them, produce simple music for simple people"...........interesting quote.

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I think was amazes me about the 'Stones is that they cover so many different styles.. and they did it all so effortlessly, like it was just in their blood. There's something about just having the music just eminate from you.. it's almost like the music is playing through them from some other dimension.

Most prog bands sound like they're hitting you over the head with their music.

That being said, I could say the same thing I said about the 'Stones about, say King Crimson. Same thing. Effortless and even soulful to a certain extent. At least to my ears. I definately don't get that listening to most other prog bands..
-jar

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Originally Posted by -Jar-

Most prog bands sound like they're hitting you over the head with their music.

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You mean the way Sgt Peppers hit you over the head? or Britches Bew? or Led Zeppelin I and II?

If there is a definative album out there that could be called the precursor to prog, then its prolly Sgt Peppers. Which is good. That way, no one has to actually mention an actual prog act. So did any prog albums influence anybody else? They do list one quasi-prog album, but then backhandedly lament its influence on other prog.

Funny that the album The Observer credits as influencing prog is a certain 1973 album that came during prog's peak. They haven't a clue as to what they're talking about when it comes to prog, they just know they don't like it, then they dismiss it.

Prog is pretentious. And glam rock wasn't. Otay!

I guess what bugs me about these lists is that they're almost always biased towards fashion. As in, its always fashionable to discuss the origins of glam or punk rock. Otherwise, where's that ultimately influencial country album? Or disco album? or prog album?

Genesis:Supper's Ready has influenced countless acts worldwide for decades. But, who cares? How 'bout Hank Williams? Well, he didn't really have an album proper, so his first greatest hits comp in 1957 shouldn't count, even though his influence can be detected for decades. What about Saturday Night Fever? It didn't change the face of music? Besides these examples are just niche genre anyway...not like punk and glam rock. None of these albums I mentioned are on the list, by the way. And if you think these were a stretch, wait until you see the rest of the list.

I'll just take this list with the same grain of salt I take with other lists. Its good for conversation, that's for sure. Too bad it wasn't so fashion oriented.

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Originally Posted by 3-LockBox

I guess what bugs me about these lists is that they're almost always biased towards fashion. As in, it’s always fashionable to discuss the origins of glam or punk rock. Otherwise, where's that ultimately influential country album? Or disco album? Or prog album?

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I think this is a really good point. These lists tend to bet filtered through the lens of whatever the tastes of the magazine lean toward as to what albums they list. I tend to think they are listing a lot of albums that are indeed influential...to things the magazine has some current interest in. But, are leaving off things that influenced things they have little interest in.

The country example illustrates this perfectly. Has any other popular musician been more influential than Hank Williams? Possibly not. I think you'd fins it challenging to find a country artist without some sort of inspiration from Hank Williams. But, the mag in question, likely doesn't give a crap about Country, so it’s not on there.

Odd that disco albums were left off, especially for an English publication, considering how big dance music has been over there in the last couple decades.

However, it’s pretty inevitable that those kinda omissions are gonna happen or you'd have a list of 50 albums from 50 genres, trying to touch on them all. You'll get your biggest metal album...you biggest country record...your biggest disco...biggest punk...biggest electro..etc... You'd end up with a pretty boring list since it wouldn't get any depth into any particular area.

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Originally Posted by nobody

Odd that disco albums were left off, especially for an English publication, considering how big dance music has been over there in the last couple decades.

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..unless you've seen the list, and I'm hoping that not many of you have. There are plenty of records on it that are quite unexpected and a big departure from rock, and there's at least one true disco record on the list (not sure how you missed it unless you glossed over it and it didn't jump out at you), but I'm not going to name it because I would like to stick to my guns and list one per week, and this one is a long way off. Yeah, we all know how to find it on the internet, but do you really need to go and review the whole thing instead of waiting to see what comes next? I suppose if you're that curious, then what can I do?

Swish

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Originally Posted by Swish

..unless you've seen the list, and I'm hoping that not many of you have. There are plenty of records on it that are quite unexpected and a big departure from rock, and there's at least one true disco record on the list (not sure how you missed it unless you glossed over it and it didn't jump out at you), but I'm not going to name it because I would like to stick to my guns and list one per week, and this one is a long way off. Yeah, we all know how to find it on the internet, but do you really need to go and review the whole thing instead of waiting to see what comes next? I suppose if you're that curious, then what can I do?

Swish

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I, for one, will be running to my computer every Tuesday in anticipation of what the next album will be. :yesnod:

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Originally Posted by 3-LockBox

You mean the way Sgt Peppers hit you over the head? or Britches Bew? or Led Zeppelin I and II?

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Well I did say "most" - I don't think any of those albums would count as "most"

I guess my point was, the fact that a musician is a talented player is great, but that shouldn't be the sole reason for liking a band. They've got to have a sound, a cohesion, a soul, and good songs/compositions.

Most prog is about bashing the listener over the head with how "good" the players are.

I just don't happen to come across much prog rock that fires on all cylinders (at least, for my tastes - other folks certainly have their own ideas about what constitues "cohesion" and "soul")..

You can be the best player in the world, but if you waste time with lame music, then I'm not really interested..

of course, this really doesn't have anything to do with Sgt. Peppers...

But as far as Miles goes... some people think ON THE CORNER is horrible noize, I really dig it and think it's a pretty influential album to a certain group of bands and musicians, but I wouldn't say it's hugely influential though.

-jar

Sgt Pepper was a huge influence on psychedelia and prog, tho I think that it was really Abbey Road that was the first straight up progrock album.

Much of Sgt Pepper has absolutely nothing to do with rock. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can make the adjustment. For listeners that want straight up rock, forget it, but the hybridized sound and wild juxtaposition from song to song was something that was very new to the youth culture of the late 60s. The album is still quite the trip when swallowed whole.

I don't see Yes, Genesis, Moody Blues etc ever happening without The Beatles opening that artistic and creative door first. Yeah, eventually someone else would have done it, but the Beatles in fact did do it first.

Sure, if you have an adversity to progrock then you can easily dismiss the sarge, but if you love it, it's influence on countless good and (arguably) important bands and albums through the 70s is blindingly obvious.

Just for the record, there are factions here at RR that hate prog and factions here that love it. We coexist thru mutual respect.

So anyway, what was the question?

I like being hit over the head. I also like being tickled with a feather.

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Originally Posted by Troy

Much of Sgt Pepper has absolutely nothing to do with rock. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can make the adjustment.

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Exactly. With Pepper, The Beatles didn't expand the definition of a pop group, they obliterated it.

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Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk

I like being hit over the head. I also like being tickled with a feather.

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TMI...

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Originally Posted by Swish

there's at least one true disco record on the list (not sure how you missed it unless you glossed over it and it didn't jump out at you)

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Yep, yer right. I missed that one...but I hope everyone here hasn't been too put off by the debate this thread has generated so far, cuz its only gonna get more...umm...interesting.

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Originally Posted by 3-LockBox

Yep, yer right. I missed that one...but I hope everyone here hasn't been too put off by the debate this thread has generated so far, cuz its only gonna get more...umm...interesting.

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I always try to keep it in proper perspective, although there are always a few people who feel their opinions are somehow more valid than yours. Or they're condescending, in which case I get pretty steamed but figure it's best to ignore them. I readily admit that I don't know nearly as much about music history as many others on the board, but I know what I like and what I dislike, and I will say so when appropriate, as we all should. It's all about opinion, although we certainly all agree that prog sucks. :cornut:

Swish

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Originally Posted by Swish

I always try to keep it in proper perspective, although I do feel that my opinions are somehow more valid than yours. I'm condescending, it's best to ignore me. I readily admit that I don't know nearly as much about music history as many others on the board, but I know what I like and what I dislike, and I will say so when appropriate, as we all should. It's all about opinion, although we certainly all agree that I suck.
Swish

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:ciappa:

LMFAO!!...Oh...FA I am hereby nominating you for...I don't know, some award for the modern, witty and urbane lady. Swish, my man, I think you've been gotten :biggrin5:

Cheers

PS Are you gonna take that from her?

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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn

:ciappa:

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Very funny indeed. I just knew you would strike back after my profound statement about that evil, bloated, pathetic and alleged music style knowm as Prog. I will pray for your soul (where have I seen that line before. A blast from the past?).

Swish

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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn

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Originally Posted by Swish

I always try to keep it in proper perspective, although I do feel that my opinions are somehow more valid than yours. I'm condescending, it's best to ignore me. I readily admit that I don't know nearly as much about music history as many others on the board, but I know what I like and what I dislike, and I will say so when appropriate, as we all should. It's all about opinion, although we certainly all agree that I suck.
Swish

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:ciappa:

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:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Swish

Very funny indeed. I just knew you would pray for me, an evil, bloated, pathetic blast from the past.

Swish

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I wasn't gonna do it, but you asked for it. ;)

....besides, you make it so easy!

FA, yer fallin' behind...:idea:

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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn

I wasn't gonna do it, but I'm easy, and he was cute and he asked nicely.

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:ihih:

Swish