• 07-19-2004, 06:25 AM
    mad rhetorik
    VH1's "I Love The Nineties" (ranting contained within)
    After watching this, it became apparent to me what a sh<a>itty decade the '90s was. All kinds of musical horrors--MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Michael Bolton, Snoop Dog, Boys 2 Men, Salt N' Pepa, TLC, Ace Of Base, Oasis, Hootie And The Blowfish, The Spice Girls, Hanson, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Ricky Martin...gah, just reading that list makes me want to vomit uncontrollably. And people complain about how bad the '80s were and how cheesy a decade that was. I would have much rather grown up then. Even Culture Club and Bon Jovi are preferable to what passed for mainstream music in the latter half of my decade.

    Of course, there was also the Seattle "grunge" explosion in '91 with Pearl Jam's <b>Ten</b>, Nirvana's <b>Nevermind</b>, and Soundgarden's <b>Badmotorfinger</b> all coming out that year. That was pretty cool, but the whole thing went pear-shaped when crappy imitators like Bush and Silverchair started making records.

    Some of the movies weren't too bad though...<b>Terminator 2</b>, <b>Pulp Fiction</b>, <b>Reservoir Dogs</b>, <b>Austin Powers</b>, <b>Sling Blade</b>, <b>Fargo</b>, <b>The Big Lebowski</b>, <b>Fight Club</b> (bonus points for reintroducing The Pixies to the public ear)....of course then comes teary-eyed swill like <b>Forrest Gump</b> and <b>Titanic</b>. Ick.

    Then there was the usual round of pop culture detritus--the Tamagachi (Pet Rock circa '97), the Furby, Barney, Teletubbies, Power Rangers, Pokemon, Tickle Me Elmo etc. etc. etc. TV for the adults: 90210/Melrose Place/Dawson's Creek (suckage), Party Of Five (depressing), Seinfield (I hated it then, still hate it now), In Living Color (funny), Martin (meh), NYPD Blue (meh), Frasier (actually pretty funny), and the worst of them all, Ally McBeal and Friends. Then The Sopranos came out in '99. That might have been the highlight of '90s TV.

    Don't even get me started on Clinton and the definition of the word "is"...

    Of course, for these commentaries they always have to pick a slew of smarmy, ironic hipsters that make me want to punch the goddamn TV. Michael Ian Black was particularly annoying. Why the hell was this scrub getting all the screen time?

    Two commentators managed to please me, though...Dee Snider and Scott Ian (of Anthrax). Figures that it would be the two metal guys and '80s holdovers that would be the most entertaining. Scott on the movie <b>Twister</b>: "The most powerful force on earth, and they survive this thing by hanging on to a metal pipe? F<a>uck, that movie sucked." Had a pretty good chuckle also when Dee was describing how he lost his kids to "that mindf<a>uck of a show." (Power Rangers)

    In regard to that sorry decade, Cobain said it best: "Oh well, whatever, nevermind."
  • 07-19-2004, 08:09 AM
    -Jar-
    ok mainstream 80's much better than mainstream 90's.. but man I won't trade my 90's indie rock and undground music for anything! Ya'll probably know what bands I would list so I won't even bother.. but I will say that my cd collection is probably 50 to 70% 90's.
  • 07-19-2004, 08:48 AM
    mad rhetorik
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by -Jar-
    ok mainstream 80's much better than mainstream 90's.. but man I won't trade my 90's indie rock and undground music for anything! Ya'll probably know what bands I would list so I won't even bother.. but I will say that my cd collection is probably 50 to 70% 90's.

    Agreed. Contrary to what the VH1/MTV talking heads would have you believe, there was quite a bit of great '90s music though it mostly flew under their radar. It's a shame that the crap will be remembered (with a heavy dose of irony/kitsch), instead of the records that actually mattered in the long run.
  • 07-19-2004, 09:14 AM
    Finch Platte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mad rhetorik
    Don't even get me started on Clinton and the definition of the word "is"...

    Nobody died when Clinton lied. :D

    fp
  • 07-19-2004, 12:02 PM
    mad rhetorik
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Finch Platte
    Nobody died when Clinton lied. :D

    fp

    He perjured himself in front of a grand jury. That would get 99% of Americans jail time or at least a hefty fine. As far as I'm concerned, Willy is a criminal.

    http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18USC1621.html
  • 07-19-2004, 12:19 PM
    Finch Platte
    Yup.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mad rhetorik
    He perjured himself in front of a grand jury. That would get 99% of Americans jail time or at least a hefty fine. As far as I'm concerned, Willy is a criminal.

    http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18USC1621.html

    I agree wholeheartedly. And that's all I'll say. This is a music forum.

    fp

    Whew, that was close. ;)
  • 07-19-2004, 12:50 PM
    Stone
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mad rhetorik

    TV for the adults: 90210/Melrose Place/Dawson's Creek (suckage), Party Of Five (depressing), Seinfield (I hated it then, still hate it now), In Living Color (funny), Martin (meh), NYPD Blue (meh), Frasier (actually pretty funny), and the worst of them all, Ally McBeal and Friends. Then The Sopranos came out in '99. That might have been the highlight of '90s TV.

    In regard to that sorry decade, Cobain said it best: "Oh well, whatever, nevermind."

    Don't forget Mr. Show.

    And I agree, there was a ton of great music in the 90s (of course, none of which is showcased on I Love the 90s).

    For starters:

    http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov...55523pvo5g.jpghttp://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov...36419thctt.jpghttp://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov...5446704zy4.jpg
    http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov...59138cwitd.jpghttp://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov...34714185g4.jpghttp://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov...23779a1s9x.jpg
  • 07-20-2004, 11:45 PM
    MindGoneHaywire
    > And people complain about how bad the '80s were and how cheesy a decade that was. I would have much rather grown up then. Even Culture Club and Bon Jovi are preferable to what passed for mainstream music in the latter half of my decade.

    Yeah, but then there was 'Mickey,' 'Pass The Dutchie,' '867-5309/Jenny,' Lionel Richie...I don't see all that much of a difference between the crappy pop music of the 80s & the 90s; crappy pop music is crappy pop music. And with pop music there'll always be something that'll catch yr ear as being decent, & something that's revoltingly horrible. But for me the main difference between the decades is that for most of the 80s, underground music was almost impossible to detect on anyone's radar screen unless they were very specifically looking for it. It didn't exist so far as most people were concerned. It did have its level of popularity, and in retrospect it was very popular relative to its exposure level through mainstream channels, which was almost nil. Of course, Nirvana changed all that...but I think that Living Colour deserves a tad of credit, also, especially since they were essentially a one-hit wonder: they rocked, with a bit of an edge, and they weren't hair metal. The typical line is that Nirvana killed off the hair metal...but that's a tale that usually leaves out the importance of Guns N' Roses, & always neglects to mention LC, who were one of the biggest rock acts in the world for a short period, and partially because they encompassed a few rock styles, at a time when people were finally ready for music that was outside the mainstream.

    For most of the decade, though, you didn't hear underground music in movies, didn't see it on television, and it was almost like a secret society of people who talked about it. Bands that were even remotely underground rarely had legitimate hopes of being signed to a major label--in spite of the popularity of the Clash (at least until the later part of the decade). In the 90s it became common to detect exposure to relatively obscure rock'n'roll, both current & older stuff. By 2000 people who were into music enough to care about underground rock'n'roll were being given a face in movies like High Fidelity. In the 80s? Forget about it. Every soundtrack of the day had the most impossibly 80s-sounding music all up & down it. Characterized by horrible production & worse drum & percussion sounds. When I see 80s movies on television the songs played in them--with a few exceptions, but very few--just sound absolutely horrible. And that's what passed for rock'n'roll at the time.

    Sure, there was a fan base for the better stuff, but even in colleges, artists like Peter Gabriel (who, even though he was interesting & whose music I found more appealing than that of, say, Don Henley--to draw an analogy to another ex-member of a rock supergroup--was part of the 'rock' orthodoxy, as opposed to, say, Alex Chilton, or even a band that scored underground pop hits like the Hoodoo Gurus) were generally more popular than acts like R.E.M. Most people thought R.E.M. was 'weird,' even some of the people who liked this or that hit of theirs they heard on the radio. U2 was about as far out as most people got, really--unless they decided that they liked XTC's 'Dear God.' The divide had disappeared by the mid-90s, for the most part. It was bizarre, especially considering how quickly punk & indie music came under the collective thumb of the music industry. They ignored anything like that for years & years. And all of a sudden they decided to try to make some money off of it. They scored, of course, but they were never going to make money off of bands like the Replacements & Husker Du (who were a little more exposed in the Midwest, their home turf).

    There were a couple of exceptions here & there--I remember when Suicidal Tendencies was on a show, I think it was Miami Vice, and it seemed like a big deal, that there was going to be a mention of a punk band on television (I didn't see it, though...does anyone remember it?). In the 90s, all of a sudden I was hearing Buzzcocks & Stooges songs in television commercials. It's silly that it should have had an impact at all, but it did. It amazed me, considering that if you played music like that out of a boombox a decade earlier, it got you an awful lot of dirty looks, from old & young alike. Now it's used to sell products. I saw a beer commercial that featured a cocktail waitress crowd-surfing, delivering a beer to a patron who was on top of the crowd. If you'd told me an image like that would be used in a television commercial for a major brewery within a decade...

    The formula used for these pop culture documentaries is loathsome--snarky comments by people who you'd often like to punch in the face. What the hell were you doing wasting yr time watching this crap, anyway? I mean, you could've been watching wrestling, or Nip/Tuck (I'm just busting yr chops, but...that's what I was watching). I've seen some good ones done by VH1--focusing on what was popular and/or notable in music in a particular year, in a style different from the bad-personality diary-fest that someone thinks makes for entertaining television. It could be, if they used interesting people to offer up the comments (of course, Behind The Music is generally better than these also, a program that I'll sit through even on a band that I don't like at all, because they tell good stories, sometimes great stories). I didn't see any of the new shows last week, and I don't like trashing something I haven't seen, but I have a feeling what it was like without having seen it. I'm sure there were some good moments here or there, but I can't sit through the whole thing just for the one good observation here or there. I do remember the 90s enough to not care so much what some pretentious knob thought about something I didn't care about in the first place.

    My original point, though, was, there was plenty of crap in the 80s that's low enough to compete in the garbage can with just about anything they made reference to on that show. And they may not have mentioned the cultural divide that I'm talking about. It was there...and I noticed it, and remember it. We never could have imagined a time when bands that could be considered 'punk rock' could achieve any success after the Clash broke through, and then seemingly fizzled out. The exploits of people who listened to weird music were still fodder for correspondent's reports on local television news reports & the occasional magazine article--and at an age where this sort of thing could have mattered to someone, liking anything other than Led Zeppelin got a lot of people branded as oddballs. For better or worse, the 90s put an end to that sort of thing.
  • 07-21-2004, 04:36 AM
    nobody
    Yeah...I think 80s revisionism makes people think popular music in the 80s was better than it actually was. Fact is, in the 80s the radio was ruled by Debbie Gibson, Hair Metal, Madonna, and crap like that. All the stuff you now see on 80s retro shows was given minimal exposure on MTV and that's about it. Kids seem to think the 80s radio was ruled by interesting new wave bands and that 80s punk was actually listened to large numbers of people...not true. The 90s at least had Nirvana, Soundgarden and such on the radio. The success of these bands helped pull the underground up to the mainstream, somthing I'm personally not sure if I like or not...used to be you could assume a guy with a mohawk and leather jacket was an outsider you could deal with, nowadays he's as likely to be the captain of the footbaal team...makes me queasy, but that's another conversation alltogether.

    Now, underground music from the 80s I still prefer to underground 90s and 00s myself. I think being left so much alone allowed bands that nowadays would get snapped up and marketed and overexposed to develop more fully and in interesting ways. Of course, I don't begrudge bands of the 90s and 00s the chance to make a living, so I guess that's really a selfish opinion.
  • 07-21-2004, 04:41 AM
    progfan
    I just can't believe we're already nostalgic for the 90's. '

    What ticks me off about this show-and I'll admit to wasting time watching "I Love the 70s" and "80's"-not to mention all those other list type programs on VH1 and E! is that it makes celebrities out of people making fun of celebrities. But I guess it works because evidently an awful lot of people watch these programs.
  • 07-21-2004, 05:02 AM
    -Jar-
    Metal rose up from the underground and stormed the mainstream in the 80's much like "alternative" rock did in the 90's. Quiet Riot, Motley Crue and Def Leppard were to the 80's as Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Bush were to the 90's. I remember being amazed and excited as more and more metal bands broke through. Sure, just like the 90's a TON of crap bands got signed because of the success of a few. Yes, there was a time, when I was young, probably in 6th or 7th grade that people looked at me REAL funny and laughed at the music I was listening to. No one liked Iron Maiden and AC/DC.. they liked Duran Duran. Then a few years later they were all buying tickets to go to the Def Leppard concert. And looking at me funny when I told them I was into a band called R.E.M...

    -jar
  • 07-22-2004, 07:29 AM
    3-LockBox
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mad rhetorik
    Of course, for these commentaries they always have to pick a slew of smarmy, ironic hipsters that make me want to punch the goddamn TV. Michael Ian Black was particularly annoying. Why the hell was this scrub getting all the screen time?

    I particularly find it amazing how hip these guys were to '70s pop culture, since most of these commentators were infants in the early '70s (or even the latter part of the decade). They do the same shtick no matter what decade they're discussing. I wouldn't mind if they were merely waxing nostalgic, but yeah, they do that ironic thing to the hilt. Both Black and Mo Rocca (what the hell kinda name is that) would have nothing else to do if not for this series and they suck. But in reallity, all of these commentators are hacks and has-beens. I haven't seen "I Love The 90s" and I don't plan on it.

    The series that I do like on VH-1 is the one where they look at one particular year in music from beginning to end. I don't recall the name of though...but its a legit essay on the music, not just some smarmy jackasses poking fun from behind the bushes.
  • 07-22-2004, 07:51 AM
    Dusty Chalk
    I think it's called The Year In Music.

    And Mo Rocca is obviously a stage name (morocca, anyone?). He got his start on Comedy Central. He's a comedian. That's his schtick.

    Can't wait 'til they start doing "The 80's Sucked" or "The 90's Sucked", and they take the 100 worst things about the decade. Just for comedic effect. Actually, now that I think about it, they better not. They'll probably make fun of synth-pop, industrial, goth, and shoegazer, four of my favourite genres. Oh, well, they can still make fun of grungewear (flannel shirts) and skinny ties.
  • 07-22-2004, 11:06 AM
    mad rhetorik
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    The formula used for these pop culture documentaries is loathsome--snarky comments by people who you'd often like to punch in the face. What the hell were you doing wasting yr time watching this crap, anyway? I mean, you could've been watching wrestling, or Nip/Tuck (I'm just busting yr chops, but...that's what I was watching).

    What can I say? Boredom makes one do strange things. It's not easy being unemployed for the past two months.

    As far as TV wrestling is concerned, I haven't watched that seriously since circa-'94. My favorite wrestlers are still Hogan and Mick Foley. Foley actually graduated from SUNY Cortland, he was at the college speaking and signing books last semester. I didn't go see him, but I wish I had. He's a real character and a nice guy in person, judging by what I've heard from others.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    I've seen some good ones done by VH1--focusing on what was popular and/or notable in music in a particular year, in a style different from the bad-personality diary-fest that someone thinks makes for entertaining television. It could be, if they used interesting people to offer up the comments (of course, Behind The Music is generally better than these also, a program that I'll sit through even on a band that I don't like at all, because they tell good stories, sometimes great stories). I didn't see any of the new shows last week, and I don't like trashing something I haven't seen, but I have a feeling what it was like without having seen it. I'm sure there were some good moments here or there, but I can't sit through the whole thing just for the one good observation here or there. I do remember the 90s enough to not care so much what some pretentious knob thought about something I didn't care about in the first place.

    Hell, if Scott Ian, Dee Snider, or comedians like Lewis Black had their own block of programming dedicated to pop culture or music or whatever, I'd watch that in a heartbeat. They're funny, sharp, actually know a thing or two about REAL music, and they don't make a career out of abusing irony. And as you can probably tell, I love a quality rant. ; P Or a good story, which is why Behind The Music can be interesting.

    Yeah, "I Love The '90s," as most of these programs do, has good moments scattered among the dross. Another funny commentator was the guy who played "Mr. Wick" from The Drew Carey Show. He's just hysterical, especially if you find thick English/Welsh accents funny like I do. ; P

    Anyway, I just felt like ranting about something and stirring the Rave Recs pot a little bit. Good responses from all involved.