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  1. #26
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser

    What is the basis for your insight into my perspective?

    jimHJJ(...just wunnerin"...)
    That's a joke, right???

    jc (it was a good one)
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  2. #27
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    RL: Well, derivative it all may be, but, I'm not sure you could name one artist/group, jazz, classical, or otherwise that truly wasn't derivative - one in which we don't hear just a hint of somebody else? We could play that game forever (or at least until the beginning of time).

    Matthew Sweet and Ben Folds were a few good pop rock recommendations...I would add Tori Amos to that (now there's one I really DON'T find too derivative at all, though the lyrics can be a bit much at times when they're just too honest).

    I see you've already found Allison Krauss...derivitive or otherwise, she's not all that bad, and she knows how to make a great sounding record.

    Porcupine Tree is one of my personal favs (and I suspect that of many others here)..."Deadwing" isn't their best work, but it's a solid effort......Can't believe you hear anything remotely Zeppelin OR Van Halen in them....LOL

    Floyd, Gabriel, Yes, and ELO, well definitely, but, if you're like me, and dig those groups too, it's all good.

    I'm all for groups using the internet to their advantage and allowing you to sample, but I have to confess (err, explain), that I didn't know Porcupine Tree existed (or dozens of others for that matter) until I received by mail some samples of their material (illegally shared). This compilation trading exercise is more common than you might think. Is it moral? Perhaps not. Do the ends justify the means???? IMO, sometimes they do. Judge me all you want. Lucky for me, I don't answer to you - I'm sure I'll get mine in the end...but in the meantime, life is good.

  3. #28
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    I did like it...there is just a generational "but" involved...

    jimHJJ(...please elaborate...)
    Sorry Jim, just some forum humour. Glad you enjoyed it.
    Around here Porcupine Tree is highly regarded...I suspect there might be a few champing at the bit over your comments.
    There's generally excellent studio work on most of their albums, I hope you didn't judge them on a computer! Their a refreshing approach to artsy/progressive/hard-rock.

  4. #29
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Can't believe you hear anything remotely Zeppelin OR Van Halen in them....
    Since I'm not sure if your foolin' with me or not, I'll bite...

    "Shallow" strikes me as being kin to "The Ocean" from "Houses Of The Holy" at least musically and in "Mellotron" I think I hear a little Eddie Van Halen-like guitar...

    jimHJJ(...but that's OK I still liked it...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  5. #30
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser

    What is the basis for your insight into my perspective? Might you recognize the derivation factor involved? Do you find these groups derivative yourself?

    jimHJJ(...just wunnerin"...)

    Well, yes and no really. Yes, in the sense that I think if you stick to rock music with any sort of definition narrow enough to be useful as a descriptor, and keep away from developments like hip hop and/or electronic music, you're talking about a genre that is fairly mature as far as modern popular music goes. Just as any time a new composer comes up or a new jazz player comes up...artists are generally building on what came before them. So, its really easy to play the derritive game by just calling bands out on their influences and chastising them for not coming up with something fresh and new out of a vacum...a standard that artists have never lived up to.

    However, I tend to think some newer artists bring new things to the party, even if they are based on older groups. A good example for me would be the White Stripes. I've heard a ton of people call them a Led Zepplin rehash. But, personally, I think they bring way more to the party than just rehashing Zepplin. Sure, they share a love of old blues guitar licks, but there are so many surface level differences alone, 2 piece compard to four piece, way more stripped down production, punk influence, etc... that to call tehm a Zepplin rehash seems odd to me considering I can go and list probably as many if not more differences between them as anyone can similarities.

    Thing is, if you're focused on the...oh they're all the same, nothing new here arguments... you're gonna focus on listening for those similarities and will tend to ignore the differences. Of course, the same problem works the other way too, and people can focus on a minute difference at the cost of so very much that sounds the same.

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