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  1. #1
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    Simon Cowell, Tastemaker

    I admire that he has the stones to issue such a provocative statement. I've never watched this American Idol program, but from what I have seen of it through the ubiquitous sound & video bites, I have little difficulty believing this statement reflects accurately on his personal taste.

    As for that, there ain't much to say, now is there?

    http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22


    The aspect of all this that actually does amaze me is the people who grouse that there's no good music anymore...because of course nobody makes classic rock like they did during the adolescence of those who shout this most loudly...yet they choose to watch this program.

    Me, I'm waiting for William Hung to hook up with the Shaggs. Now there's a collaboration...

    I don't like others.

  2. #2
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Simon Cowell is a sh!t-eatin' dog.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    The aspect of all this that actually does amaze me is the people who grouse that there's no good music anymore...because of course nobody makes classic rock like they did during the adolescence of those who shout this most loudly...yet they choose to watch this program.
    I've watched some of it...though, not much as I've worked a night shift for so long. But I will watch the seaon premier, cuz that's my favorite. Some of the losers and posers that show up are a riot to watch. After the initial weeding out and listening to Cowell insult his way through the first round of rejects, it gets boring. I don't care how much talent this thing showcases, its as bad for the art of music as StarSearch was. The voting structure is completely fvcked anyway, since there's always going to be some subversive computer nerd/stalker setting his computer on a dial-loop, and skewing the results (that actually happened in the second or third season).

    Whats even more curious is the guest judges they've had on the show in the past; Gene Simmons and Mark McGrath; niether of which can carry a tune in a sack, both are marginally talented hacks who's success were based on gimmickery, and had either been a contestant on AI, wouldn't have made it past the first audition, let alone receive the ass-kissing that they got from Cowell. Seems Simon is just as concerned with celebrity potential as he is talent. He can say what he wants to about Bob Dylan; if Dylan were a guest judge, Cowell would kiss his ass too.

    Unfortunately, Simon Cowell represents the 'norm' when it comes to record execs' line of thinking, and that's scarier than any smarmy, limey insult he can conjure up. At least schmultzmeister Don Kirshner gave us a Kansas or Blue Oyster Cult for every Monkees or Archies he foisted upon us.

    But the number one reason to hate American Idol?

    easy...Canadian Idol

  3. #3
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Well, as much as you may despise him and his nasty....

    Quote Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    I admire that he has the stones to issue such a provocative statement. I've never watched this American Idol program, but from what I have seen of it through the ubiquitous sound & video bites, I have little difficulty believing this statement reflects accurately on his personal taste.

    As for that, there ain't much to say, now is there?

    http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22


    The aspect of all this that actually does amaze me is the people who grouse that there's no good music anymore...because of course nobody makes classic rock like they did during the adolescence of those who shout this most loudly...yet they choose to watch this program.
    .
    ...comments about Bob Dylan, the show is a monster hit and making gobs of money. It's almost obscene how big the machine has become. I do like the early stages where there's a large number of really bad singers. Some of them can't believe that the judges don't like tthem, yet they're so bad that you can't believe they don't know it. It's almost like they're being paid to come on and make asses out of themselves.

    As for Simon, yes, he's a real jerk and very opinionated, but he certainly knows when someone can't sing, and his ascerbic wit is a great counter-balance to the whimpy demeanor of Paula Abdul. That doesn't mean I like his taste in music or him ours. I'm sure he hasn't been exposed to much beyond the top 40 crap that most of the contestants choose for their auditions. Ditto for Paula and Randy. The formula does work for the show, and that's that I suppose.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  4. #4
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    the show is a monster hit and making gobs of money. It's almost obscene how big the machine has become.
    Lost, which is in it's third year in the Wednesday night 9:00pm time slot, is being bumped to 10:00pm when it returns in February, because ABC execs don't want to put Lost up beside the American Idol elimination show.

    Say what you may about AI, it has the competition running scared.

  5. #5
    nerd ericl's Avatar
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    Considering all the crap he churns out on that show, that statement about Dylan is about right. No taste is right. He probably prefers Michael Bolton.

  6. #6
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    I could care less about Simon Cowell and American Idol, for the same reason I could care less about the Grammy's -- it does not even remotely reflect the kind of music I listen to.

    I'll have to read the article later.
    Eschew fascism.
    Truth Will Out.
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    Peter aka Dusty Chalk

  7. #7
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    Not really surprising, considering that looking at what American Idol churns out, Simon seems to have the musical taste of your average 12 year old girl.

    He's moderately funny with his insults, but judging who can sing and not isn't exactly a monumental task with the contestants up there. Peopl who can stay on tune and carry a note are naturally pleasing to the ear, pretty much anyone could sort that much out, and then the audience votes to cover any likability issues. The "judges" are basically puppets there for entertainment value.

    First couple episodes are fun to watch the deluded types with no ability whatsoever embarass themselves in front of millions. Then, I'm basically with Dusty, so far removed from anything I would be listening to that it's totally irrelevant to me.

    This show puts on a sliver of an act like it has some sort of value in producing good music. But, basically, it is a marketing machine aimed at its pre-teen and eary teen audience.

    And, just like with the government where we have the chance to vote, we get the kind of TV we deserve since if people didn't tune in, it would go away.

    Oh....and who's having fun watching White Rapper?

  8. #8
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    Ah yes Simon Cowell the master of taste and fashion

    Don't get me started on that pompous tosser Cowell the whole programme is geared to lining his pockets. Talent to him means young, good looking, prepared to record cover versions oh yeah and able to carry a tune. Still, nothing new there I suppose.

    As much as I dislike him you've got to admire him for working the system and he does speak the truth and come up with the odd gem now and then...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6GEvBj2dH0

    This is from the UK version the 'X factor' where one half of a singing duo was compared to the Matt Lucas (of Little Britain fame) creation teenage delinquent Vicky Pollard.

    Cheers
    Mike

  9. #9
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Wow, Cowell doesn't like Dylan. Neither do I. Dylan also "bores me to tears."

    So freakin what. As if anything Cowell says has any effect on whether any of us like or dislike old Bob. I don't think there will be a lot of minds changed by his statement.

    And the people who WILL be swayed by his opinion? They are all already lost.

    Ultimately, anything he says is meaningless.

    Never watched the show but have seen enough commercials for it during football games (yay, Martyball is back!) to last a lifetime. The only aspect mildly interesting would be watching the bad singers get gonged, but I suspect that they might very well be actors.

    Crap like AI only makes me think more and more that the Muslims are right about us.

  10. #10
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    The only aspect mildly interesting would be watching the bad singers get gonged, but I suspect that they might very well be actors.
    I suspected that as well, though some of the contestants do look genuinely hurt and shocked...and no way those three "big-time" judges waddle through all those thousands of entries. I think some of those really bad entries get funneled through on purpose - I think there is a preliminary judging panel who sees/hears someone whose really bad and really full of his/herself, and then this preliminary panel pumps these posers full of false hope, knowing that the reaction to getting burned by the 'three' will be all the juicier. I know I'm having fun at those poor dope's exspense, but its too fun and I don't have to go to a karaoke bar. Still, ya have to wonder how someone who's that bad doesn't know they're that bad, unless they're supossed to be that bad.

    Yeah, AI makes money hand-over-fist...so does organized crime, drug pushers, and the porn industry.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    Swish:

    >the show is a monster hit and making gobs of money.

    Oh, I know. It's not like I'm trying to deny that or anything, and, honestly, I don't really care. Except I care a little bit, because I care about music, and I follow the music business to an extent. I don't waste time railing against Cowell, it's pointless. This, however, was a remark I found noteworthy. Cowell's role, and the power of his philosophy within the music business, has grown, so it's not about him not liking Dylan, it's that, as a force in the music business, that he would have the attitude about Dylan that he does. I find it interesting that he wouldn't sign a young Dylan. Of course, it's kinda obvious to knock him because he doesn't like a guy who's almost universally respected, but his position seems harmful to the idea of the music business as anything but an industry that is based solely on short-term sensations.

    That leads to the oft-spoken idea that 'nobody will be listening to this one or that one in 40 years.' We don't know that. People tend to like what they grow up hearing, and often return to it later on. But that's light years away from artist development, the gradual erosion of which I think has harmed the music business significantly.


    nobody:

    >He's moderately funny with his insults, but judging who can sing and not isn't exactly a monumental task with the contestants up there. Peopl who can stay on tune and carry a note are naturally pleasing to the ear, pretty much anyone could sort that much out, and then the audience votes to cover any likability issues. The "judges" are basically puppets there for entertainment value.

    >First couple episodes are fun to watch the deluded types with no ability whatsoever embarass themselves in front of millions. Then, I'm basically with Dusty, so far removed from anything I would be listening to that it's totally irrelevant to me.

    Bingo, that nails is so far as I'm concerned, except that while I might get a chuckle or two if I watched even an early episode for the comedy aspect, I'm just not that interested in the sorts of insults a guy like Cowell could muster. He's he sort of guy I'd never want to be laughing with. About anything.


    Troy:

    >Wow, Cowell doesn't like Dylan. Neither do I. Dylan also "bores me to tears."

    >So freakin what. As if anything Cowell says has any effect on whether any of us like or dislike old Bob. I don't think there will be a lot of minds changed by his statement.

    >And the people who WILL be swayed by his opinion? They are all already lost.

    >Ultimately, anything he says is meaningless.

    You know, being a contrarian is great & all, but it helps to think about stuff like this for a second. Do you really think anything he says is meaningless? I don't. A guy whose opinion is meaningless gets guest shots from people like Prince? That doesn't add up, now, does it?

    I think that the way he thinks about the music business is something that influences people these days in the music business. What you said about not having the power or ability to change minds? That only relates to the fans. What powerful people say does wield influence, if the numbers support it. And it stands to reason that the AI numbers support Cowell's philosophy on music, and the music business.

    That leads to decisions being made based on the success ot stuff like this. If the market dictates that this is what people want, then that's going to rule the day, and it's pretty obvious that this is successful. But I like the idea of record company executives making decisions that take the future into consideration, not just the present. And that''s not about wanting them to sign stuff I like & drop stuff I don't. It's about stuff like artist development, which seems to be a lost art among executives. Cowell just doesn't seem like a guy who cares about that, in any way, shape, or form.

    Some people ask if a young Ella Fitzgerald or Billie Holiday would be signed today, and it's kind of a poor analogy, that seemed to be mostly geared towards putting down pop-jazz hybrid singers like Norah Jones. Now Cowell tackled an interesting nut with this statement. I think we all pretty much knew he felt that way about Dylan, and probably a lot of other people that we like...or people that may 'bore us to tears' but are nevertheless established recording artists. But 45 years ago, somebody at a label that hated contemporary pop music saw something in Dylan that Cowell would never detect in a million years, because he can't see past his own dislike, which I will go so far as to characterize as shallow.

    But nobody cared what Dylan looked like. And within a few years, he became mostly responsible for the genre we now know as 'singer-songwriter.' But Cowell isn't interested in looking at someone who doesn't fit his profile, even if they might do some work that might lead to followers who sell a lot of records: in Dylan's case, just for starters, say, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Bruce Springsteen.

    Now, they mostly do covers on that program, right? So it's not about showcasing original material so far as I know. But it's the perfect singers who don't have to work hard if it comes to them naturally. Cowell isn't interested in seeing someone with talent that might be a notch or two below the perfect singers he promotes, who might have ideas that are more interesting, who have to work in ways that supremely talented folks don't have to. Forget all the stuff about scoffing at teen pop & Cowell's taste. I see that as a lack of insight. You can boil a music program down to a glorified talent show with a trendy format, but boiling the music business down to that is a different story entirely. Taking chances on those sorts of people requires a willingness to look at music in a way that Cowell will never understand.

    And his philosophy is taken very seriously by the music business...and he's impacted on it greatly. Now, yes, it's all cyclical, and there will likely be a new sensation within a couple of years, or a mini-sensation. I don't think this format will last much longer, maybe another season or two. But, for now, the apparent influence of AI on how labels run their business is very real, at least so far as I can see. So, in the end, it's not about Dylan & whether or not anybody likes him. It's about seeing something there that people might like. That AI is popular is not surprising. But that it's become as powerful as it is, I find a bit disturbing.

    All that said, most of us don't care what the labels do, it doesn't affect us, blah blah blah. But, it kinda does, even if peripherally. It's all well & fine to just ignore the aspects of the business that we dislike, and there are plenty of them. But, like I said, I just sorta like the idea of labels making decisions that make some kind of sense, and I don't really see it.

    I've been reading this guy occasionally over the past year or two, but more lately. He's biased, and I think he's said to work for Warner Brothers, maybe Rhino, I'm not sure. So, some of the remarks about other labels have to be taken with a grain of salt. But I like the way he writes about music: with passion. He's a fan. He argues by way of uppercase. And even when I don't agree, or he's raving about an act I don't like, I still find myself nodding in agreement at how he relates his feelings, his impulses, how music affects him. And I remembered this recent column, when I saw the Cowell quote. And it speaks to what I'm talking about, which, again, is not specifically about what Cowell thinks about Dylan's music.

    Thoughts?

    http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.p...-the-business/

    I don't like others.

  12. #12
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    As if anything Cowell says has any effect on whether any of us like or dislike old Bob.
    I don't think that's the point -- I think it's going to have an effect on whether or not any of us like or dislike Simon -- after all, statements like this say more about the speaker than the subject of the statement. He's trying to alienate his non-audience even more than we already are.

    At least, that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody
    Simon seems to have the musical taste of your average 12 year old girl.
    Quoted for appreciation.
    Eschew fascism.
    Truth Will Out.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevef22
    you guys are crackheads.
    I remain,
    Peter aka Dusty Chalk

  13. #13
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Well Dusty, I think it's really more that he's just spouting off when someone stuck a microphone under his nose, that's all. It's a great soundbite; controversial and opinionated. Makes great press. Since we don't really know the context I think deep speculation about it is pointless. And haven't we all made up our minds about Simon already anyway?

    Jesus Jay.
    I guess I need to be clearer, it's meaningless to ME. Yeah, him and his ilk are running (ruining) the music biz. Know what tho? It was ruined before he got there.

    No, I don't think that neither your, nor my favorite bands would get signed today, but based on the music biz today, they'd have to compromise SO MUCH that we wouldn't like them anymore if they did.

    The AI influence on the industry has no impact on me or the music I listen to. That bands are not getting signed because of AI or Cowell's influence is just not true. Fact is, they were not getting signed anyway because the biz was already creatively bankrupt long before Simon got there.

    I really think you are overstating Cowell's importance over anything not within his direct sphere of influence ie: the show itself and the cheesy cover singers that do the national anthem at corporate sponsored events and sing in ghastly musical films that it spawns.

    And BFD on Prince being a guest! That guy is also nothing more than a corporate shill himself. Trying for the big comeback, he's doing Superbowel halftime. He'll do anything for publicity. Isn't it all so mind-bogglingly transparant to you?

  14. #14
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    His speciality is marksting but he is also a music producer and executive at BMG UK record co.
    Look & Listen

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