Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746

    Satriani sues Coldplay

    I'm surprised this hasn't come up already...or if it has and I missed it, here it is again

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tWjja5HIWU

    tisk tisk Coldplay

  2. #2
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523
    Interesting. Here's another:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGF...eature=related

    To be honest even if Coldplay did copy Satriani I really don't see the point in suing them, especially at this stage of his career.

  3. #3
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746
    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    To be honest even if Coldplay did copy Satriani I really don't see the point in suing them, especially at this stage of his career.
    Royalties.

    Which song do you think made more money - If I Could Fly or Viva La Vida?

    Which royalty check would you want?


    George Harrison was successfully sued for plagiarism by The Chiffons, based on the similarities twix the songs He's So Fine and My Sweet Lord.

    Plagiarism in music is very hard to prove from what I've read. Depends on the judge really. I'm sure every music/song writer is influenced directly or indirectly by his/her own music experiences, but if Satriani sues and wins, its a winfall for him. I've seen these things pop up before on YouTube with its numerous examples and song comparison, its easy to sway popular opinion. These songs are very very close. Your link explains it very well (if you can actually sit through the whole thing). If I were Coldplay, I'd settle out of court.

  4. #4
    nightflier
    Guest
    In the end this kind of action stifles innovation, the very thing that copyright law is supposed to encourage. All music is plagiarized at some level - we wouldn't enjoy it if it wasn't. If he looses, Satriani can go stand in line behind Dr. Dre, U2, and yes, even Metallica.

    Maybe, and I'm just going to throw this out there, the strength of copyright law and it's ridiculously extended time-frame have been carried too far. How much more mediocrity can this country withstand before the rest of the world (most of which has more progressive copyright laws) passes it by? Are we so tied to profit at the expense of quality, that we're willing to destroy our own industries? Or are we so numbed by mediocrity that we simply don't know quality anymore?

  5. #5
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746
    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    In the end this kind of action stifles innovation
    What's it got to do with innovation? Nothing innovative about lifting someone elses tune.

    I'm not even suggesting that lifting a melody from another artist's work is bad, provided of course permission is obtained. For example, I love Harrison's My Sweet Lord and don't care if I ever hear "doo-lang doo-lang doo-lang" ever again. If Harrison really did get the idea for the melody from He's So Fine, what woulda been wrong with getting consent?

    Toto's Hold The Line and Genesis' Misunderstanding both share a common melody with Sly And The Family Stone's Hot Fun In The Summertime. I don't know about Genesis, but I did hear a radio interview Toto where they say they copied it for their song, so I assume they had permission to make a public confession like that. Phil Collins started flirting with the Motown sound on the Duke album and continued that trend in his solo career, so it doesn't surprise me if they borrowed that melody as well.

    I think its ok that they (Toto/Genesis) did borrow from Hot Fun In The Summertime, because I like all three songs. I'm not twisted that Coldplay did this, and my post isn't an attempt to slag them, but Satriani feels slighted. Funny thing is, I may have never heard Satriani's song before this controversy came up, because I've never been a fan of shredders like Satriani, or as I've called him in the past, Joe Hystrianic.

    Borrowing melodies isn't a big deal as far as I'm concerned, but if you knowingly do it, and you don't get the proper permission, you shouldn't be surprised when that shoulder tap comes around.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Kevio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    452
    I heard this a while back and rolled my eyes. All pop music comes from 7 chords and Joe is claiming plagiarism because Coldplay chose the same 4 that he did?

    With only 840 4-chord progressions to choose from, it's probably impossible to avoid "plagiarizing" in this manner.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular Kevio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    452

    I don't think I have a point

    Quote Originally Posted by 3-LockBox
    Toto's Hold The Line and Genesis' Misunderstanding both share a common melody with Sly And The Family Stone's Hot Fun In The Summertime.
    The ABC song, Twinkle twinkle and Baa-baa blacksheep also share a melody but it's OK because Amadeus is no longer around to sue anyone.

  8. #8
    nightflier
    Guest
    How do you prove that an artists "knowingly" does it? What if it was in his subconscious and he never knew that it belonged to someone else? And even if he did know, what if he claimed he didn't? Furthermore, from what the OP said, much of this silliness depends on the judge's opinion??? What about his mood? Maybe he was having a bad day? This is all way too much uncertainty to slam someone with a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

    And as for innovation, if artists can't "use" any familiar tunes, lyrics, melodies, and themes to write music, then there will be no new music, period. With very few exceptions, all art today is plagiarized. Eddie Van Halen admitted he was greatly influenced by Beethoven, of all composers. Does that mean that Beethoven's estate should collect millions in royalties from the success of VH2? If so, there would never have been another VH album after that. That's the kind of utter nonsense that today's copyright law is reaching for.

    Too far fetched? OK, let's consider Coldplay's influences. If Satriani wins this in court, then you can be sure that a lot of other bands and artists will be lining up to sue for "damages." This could bankrupt Coldplay and put an end to the band. So who benefits from that? Well Satriani does, I suppose, but not the public.

    Copyright law was created to let artists collect for a short time on their invention's uses, not for decades or even hundreds of years. This wasn't even pushed for by artists, but instead was greedily shoved down the public's throat by the record companies. Sure there are numskulls like Ulrich & Bono who wholeheartedly backed that kind of gouging, but it does nothing for new music and the people who listen to it. I know this is simplifying it a bit, but that's the gist of what I'm saying.

  9. #9
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746
    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    How do you prove that an artists "knowingly" does it? What if it was in his subconscious and he never knew that it belonged to someone else? And even if he did know, what if he claimed he didn't? Furthermore, from what the OP said, much of this silliness depends on the judge's opinion??? What about his mood? Maybe he was having a bad day?
    You're right on all counts. Both sides will have lawyers and yes, judges seem to have no problem interpretting law any way the like.

    And as for innovation, if artists can't "use" any familiar tunes, lyrics, melodies, and themes to write music, then there will be no new music, period. With very few exceptions, all art today is plagiarized.
    That might be a reach, but yeah, I'm sure most everyone in the music biz has been influenced by music they like. And it is all very subjective. Hell, the prog group Kaipa has a song from their Keyholder album that has some very Satriani-like guitar in it...wait...who is Kaipa? Exactly. Satriani is following the money. I don't care one way or another. But artists are allowed to feel one way or another. Copyright laws are there for a reason; for the same reasons we have speed limits, labor codes, etc.

    If a band recorded another artist's song, note for note and word for word, would that be plagiarism? Its ok to copy a melody almost note for note, but if you copy the lyrics, its bad? Should Led Zepplin have been sued for what they did?


    This could bankrupt Coldplay and put an end to the band.
    so could putting out banal pop albums

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    18
    Yes lifted the intro to "Heart of the Sunrise" from Crimsons' "21st Century Man" and ages later I think it was Squire that joked something like he was amazed they didn't get caught.

    One of my current favorite Bands, Dream Theater, freely incorporate their influences into their recordings. To their credit, the band readily acknowledges this. Watch one of their DVDs with the band commentary on and it's hilarious to hear them: "here's the Marillion bit....and coming up is the Charlie's Angels trill....and this bassline is totally Chris Squire...."

    I love the sum of the parts with Dream Theater, and Scenes is one of my fav albums by them. Little wonder that DT created it while consiously using my favorite bands as influences.

    okay...gotta go put some Kaipa on.....

    tj

  11. #11
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746
    Quote Originally Posted by teej
    Yes lifted the intro to "Heart of the Sunrise" from Crimsons' "21st Century Man" and ages later I think it was Squire that joked something like he was amazed they didn't get caught.
    Kansas may have lifted the intro for Carry On Wayward Son from Journey's I'm Gonna Leave You. Though Kerry Livgren insists it was a coincidence, both guitar and keyboard riffs are nearly identicle. The Journey album Look Into The Future predates Leftoverture, but only by a few months. There is a story that the intro was written by a third party and was given to both bands.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0SwXrajVHY

    Quote Originally Posted by teej
    okay...gotta go put some Kaipa on....
    sounds like a good idea...which one?
    Last edited by 3-LockBox; 04-16-2009 at 09:32 AM.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    18
    sounds like a good idea...which one?[/QUOTE]


    I think it's just Kaipa/Kaipa...with "Mindrevolutions" I love the guitar leads....nothing flashy, nothing fast, but carefully chosen notes reeking with emotion...rips into my heart and fills me with smiles.

  13. #13
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746
    ^ I'm partial to Keyholder myself. Actually, I'm partial to Ritual, another swedish outfit that has the same lead singer and I think the same bass player as Kaipa (I'm too lazy to check). Mindrevolutions was OK, but I didn't keep it. I like the Ritual from around the same timeframe (2004) Think Like A Mountain. The problem with these two recording entities, is that their last two or three albums have come out within weeks of each other, a the two albums I just mentioned coulda been a double album set. Which could be great if you're a huge fan. Where Kaipa albums tend to have more in common with neo-prog giants The Flower Kings, Ritual's first album incorprates a lot of Swedish folklore into their writing as well as traditional instrumentation. The albums that followed, Superb Birth and Think Like A Mountain, lean more towards Kaipa territory, but the band really comes full circle on their last album, The Hemulac Voluntary Band from 2007, which is based on popular Swedish children's book.

  14. #14
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    10,176
    Bankrupt Coldplay, the band may not go on, boo hoo, I'd never know the difference.

    NF, hearing the crap that's on the radio today, I'd say some one doesn't know good music any more.

  15. #15
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Hey! Over here!
    Posts
    2,746
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Bankrupt Coldplay, the band may not go on, boo hoo, I'd never know the difference.

    NF, hearing the crap that's on the radio today, I'd say some one doesn't know good music any more.
    Mr. P how dare you derail my thread about Swedish prog for a story of plag...er...uh...yeah

    anyway, about that radio thing...I wonder how Coldplay woulda heard that Satriani song. They certainly did not hear it over the airwaves.

  16. #16
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    10,176
    Which one is Swedish Prog, Satriani or Cold Play? Maybe one of the boys are Satriani fans.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •