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  1. #1
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    My analysis of the Super Bowl.

    Ok, so the Eagles lost this one. And I mean "lost" it because they certainly played well enough to win. How blessed can NE be with 3 wins and each by 3 points? That's not all, how blessed are they to have the generous McNabb throw two easy INTs to them? My grandma could have caught the one at the 3 and the other by Bruschi. Just like in the game against Pittsburgh, the idiotic turnovers, unforced in nearly every case, resulted in a loss for the oponent.

    Anyway, to those who said the Eagles would get crushed, like Troy, who said the Pats would "vivsect (sic) them", and kexodusc, who said "it has the makings of a blowout", and all the other prognositcators who said the Eagles didn't belong on the same field as the Patriots, you can all stick a sock in it. I'm proud of their season, no matter how it ended, and they'll be back to claim the title next year.

    Now, if ANY of you had the good sense to follow my advice that I posted back on January 26th ("Anyway, I just don't think it's going to be the blowout you think. I would take the Eagles and the points and bet heavily"), you would be raking in some serious cash like I am right now. Hey, nothing like cold, hard cash to make me feel good about this game.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  2. #2
    Stainmaster Finch Platte's Avatar
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    I went for a bike ride, stopped for pizza and beer, stopped at the record store and am now listening to my new Transatlantic DVD.

    Are you talking about rugby or table tennis?

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  3. #3
    very clever with maracas Davey's Avatar
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    If I was the moderator here, this whiney drivel would have a new home at a more appropriate venue. But on second thought, it's alright, we're here for you Swishster. Have a good cry and get it out of your system. Like you say, there's always next year...or the year after...or, well, maybe not

  4. #4
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I'll bite....Swish, you are absolutely right...Philly definitely brought forward their best effort of the season, and should go home with their heads held high. On the other side of things, clearly this was NE's 2nd worse game of the year (the worst was the game against Pittsburgh)...I've never seen so many stupid penalties in a Superbowl, or as many sloppy plays on offence. Brady had a terribly mediocre game...It's almost not right that a team can be so painfully mediocre (and in my opinion undeserving) and still win the Superbowl. Similar to how Philly played against Minnesota (though TO wasn't there).

    I was really indifferent to the outcome here, not being a fan of either team, but I was incredibly disappointed with the absolutely pathetic effort of the Pats. 1 lucky touchdown pass for the Eagles late in the game really made this interesting, something most recent Superbowl's have been lacking.

    That being said you've got to respect New England, even with the Eagles on their best day, and the Pats on their worst day, they still pulled it off.
    To me this solidified the Eagles place as 4th best team in the NFL this year behind Indy and Pittsburgh.

    And everyone should lay off TO, who put in one of the best performances I've seen in recent years for a half-crippled guy who hadn't played in 6 weeks. Good for him.

  5. #5
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    My humble opinion would simply point out that the coaching staff bungled the game for the Eagles. Time management and play calling ruined any chance for the probably deserved come back. My predicition is that there will be a huge chorus in Philly saying the exact same thing today. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...

    jc
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  6. #6
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    nope

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    My humble opinion would simply point out that the coaching staff bungled the game for the Eagles. Time management and play calling ruined any chance for the probably deserved come back. My predicition is that there will be a huge chorus in Philly saying the exact same thing today. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...

    jc
    The coaching staff did not throw interceptions and many other lousy passes.....the QB threw the game for Philly.

  7. #7
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    NE's coverage took away most of the good options for Philly though, McNabb hasn't had to struggle through that all year and it showed in some bad plays.
    Philly didn't have a running game at all, really. I think that hurt them too.
    I thought they could have done a better job at exposing all the holes in NE's defense though. I really expected a higher scoring game from both teams.
    Philly's got no reason to be disappointed about anything. A lot of teams have lost to the Pats the last few years. The time management didn't really end up hurting them much...the Pats would have given them a few more first downs to eat up the clock, and it would have come down to an impossible kick or a hail mary pass anyway.
    Philly got super lucky with their last TD to make it close...

    Anybody else think the officiating was pretty terrible?


    NE didn't show up until the 2nd half though, very uncharacteristic of them.

  8. #8
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    In the first half I saw 2 teams with terrible Superbowl jitters. Both teams looked flat. Surprising for NE with all their experience, but not so for Philly with their lack of experience.

    Had the game been 6 quarters long, I suspect that NE would have started really running up the score.

    Yeah, on paper, I smelled a NE blowout. They ended up playing just good enough to win an ugly, dull, poorly officiated game. Glad I didn't bet a cent on it. Yeah, it wasn't a blowout, but Swish, don't make it sound like coving the spread is what it's all about.

    Being a Bay Area guy, I've seen my home town team go to a lot of Superbowls. I KNOW that I'd rather have the win and that covering the point spread does NOT make up for winning the big prize.

  9. #9
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    The Eagles best day? Have you been watching them...

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    That being said you've got to respect New England, even with the Eagles on their best day, and the Pats on their worst day, they still pulled it off.
    To me this solidified the Eagles place as 4th best team in the NFL this year behind Indy and Pittsburgh.

    And everyone should lay off TO, who put in one of the best performances I've seen in recent years for a half-crippled guy who hadn't played in 6 weeks. Good for him.
    at all this season? They routinely blew out team by double-digits, and McNabb was the ONLY QB with over 30 td passes and less than 10 interceptions. For him to have 3 in one game, although the last was just a prayer and should be discounted, was very odd. This was hardly their best performance of the season, and I don't think your calling them the
    "4th best team in the NFL" is accurate either. You take away either INT or the fumble in Pat's territory, and you have a different outcome.

    One thing you can count on, the Eagles will be there next year, and will win it. They have tons of early draft choices and will be stronger with their other starters back in the lineup. So will the Pats, but they now need new offensive and def. coordinators, so they won't be nearly as strong IMO.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  10. #10
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    My major problem was the decision to do the on-side kick!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    My humble opinion would simply point out that the coaching staff bungled the game for the Eagles. Time management and play calling ruined any chance for the probably deserved come back. My predicition is that there will be a huge chorus in Philly saying the exact same thing today. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...

    jc
    I think only 1 in 20 is successful in the NFL in the first place. Kick it deep, hold them to 3 and out and make them punt. Sure, they did that anyway, but in the Eagles side of the field! Getting it back on their own 4 with less than a minute and no TOs was an impossible task. Get it at your 35 or so and you have enough time to get into FG range, especially with Akers kicking.

    I do agree they wasted time before that, but they still had a chance without that stupid on-side kick. Bad decision. Also, the turnovers killed them, just like the Steelers.

    Swish (It's not the end of the world, it only feels that way)
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  11. #11
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    at all this season? They routinely blew out team by double-digits, and McNabb was the ONLY QB with over 30 td passes and less than 10 interceptions. For him to have 3 in one game, although the last was just a prayer and should be discounted, was very odd. This was hardly their best performance of the season, and I don't think your calling them the
    "4th best team in the NFL" is accurate either. You take away either INT or the fumble in Pat's territory, and you have a different outcome.

    One thing you can count on, the Eagles will be there next year, and will win it. They have tons of early draft choices and will be stronger with their other starters back in the lineup. So will the Pats, but they now need new offensive and def. coordinators, so they won't be nearly as strong IMO.

    Swish
    C'mon Swish, that's wishful thinking. Two days ago nobody was talking about next year, it was do or die, the last chance, once in a lifetime opportunity, and all the other cliches...

    Yeah, they did kick the crap out of the very tough and competitive NFC, but when they graduated from the minor-leagues, things didn't work out for them. I give them credit though, their record should have been 15-1 considering they played it safe towards the end of the year.
    I'm not knocking Philly at all...they've probably been the 2nd best team of the past 5 years in terms of consistency, but how any Eagles fan can objectively mention them in the same league as the Pats over that same time without looking in the mirror and puking is beyond me...There's a billion miles between coming close and choking year after year, and repeating. Ask the fans in Buffalo. But then again, losing 4 Superbowls is better than losing 1 Superbowl and 3 conference finals.

    I'm not sure they'll have the cake-walk back to the big show next year either...lots of teams improving in the NFC, if Atlanta could ever find some help for Vick they might turn into something special. Philly's still the top team in the NFC in my books, but the free ride is over. History is against the Eagles, and being another year older doesn't help.

    Defending or blaming McNabb is kind of pointless, he played decent and the turnovers were a result of good coverage and no other options for him to go to...he didn't lose the game for them, he just got beat. His stats would have been a lot more down to earth if Philly played in the AFC.
    In hindsight, this loss really stings, because the whole world saw the Pats not show up until the 3rd quarter, so they really did have a chance to win.
    It'll be interesting to see if they can rebound and perform like this again next year...IMO, both teams will have a hard time keeping the cores together, and NE will have yet even a tougher road back to the 'bowl again next year. But Belichick seems to have his team ready, no matter who's out, who leaves, etc. And Brady's only going to get better. It'll be interesting to see...usually teams let talk of "dynasties" run to their heads and have total meltdowns ala Dallas, Denver, St. Louis, etc...Sooner or later these guys will get beat.

  12. #12
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Interceptions the result of good coverage? What game...

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    C'mon Swish, that's wishful thinking. Two days ago nobody was talking about next year, it was do or die, the last chance, once in a lifetime opportunity, and all the other cliches...

    Yeah, they did kick the crap out of the very tough and competitive NFC, but when they graduated from the minor-leagues, things didn't work out for them. I give them credit though, their record should have been 15-1 considering they played it safe towards the end of the year.
    I'm not knocking Philly at all...they've probably been the 2nd best team of the past 5 years in terms of consistency, but how any Eagles fan can objectively mention them in the same league as the Pats over that same time without looking in the mirror and puking is beyond me...There's a billion miles between coming close and choking year after year, and repeating. Ask the fans in Buffalo. But then again, losing 4 Superbowls is better than losing 1 Superbowl and 3 conference finals.

    I'm not sure they'll have the cake-walk back to the big show next year either...lots of teams improving in the NFC, if Atlanta could ever find some help for Vick they might turn into something special. Philly's still the top team in the NFC in my books, but the free ride is over. History is against the Eagles, and being another year older doesn't help.

    Defending or blaming McNabb is kind of pointless, he played decent and the turnovers were a result of good coverage and no other options for him to go to...he didn't lose the game for them, he just got beat. His stats would have been a lot more down to earth if Philly played in the AFC.
    In hindsight, this loss really stings, because the whole world saw the Pats not show up until the 3rd quarter, so they really did have a chance to win.
    It'll be interesting to see if they can rebound and perform like this again next year...IMO, both teams will have a hard time keeping the cores together, and NE will have yet even a tougher road back to the 'bowl again next year. But Belichick seems to have his team ready, no matter who's out, who leaves, etc. And Brady's only going to get better. It'll be interesting to see...usually teams let talk of "dynasties" run to their heads and have total meltdowns ala Dallas, Denver, St. Louis, etc...Sooner or later these guys will get beat.
    were you watching? The INT on the 3 was horribly underthrown. He was supposed to hit Westbrook in the back left corner of the endzone. He was quoted as saying the ball slipped out of his hand as he was throwing it. And the INT by Bruschi? You think that was a well-thrown ball? Yeah, if he was trying to throw it to Bruschi! I've watched McNabb all season and he's never looked that shaky, as was evidenced by his stats. Sure, the Pats presented better defense than most of their opponents this year (the Steelers made them look bad while the Pats barely won), but he still threw for over 300 yards.

    Look dude, this is still just a game, and there are things much more important to me than sports, so I'm not going to go and cry or anything, much less "looking in the mirror and puking". I just don't take it all that seriously. I don't own ANY professional sports apparel, I don't paint my face and freak out when they lose. Life is too short and I've already moved on. As for history, it means nothing as each season is a new start for everyone. Some get ravaged by injuries or lose players to free agency. The Eagles won't lose anyone that they don't want to lose, will have several starters back who were out for the season with serious injuries, and have a bunch of draft choices due to some nice moves they've made recently. Like I said, "wait til next year".

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  13. #13
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I was watching the same game you were, except I wasn't subject to "eagle-vision" bias.
    Yeah the one INT was kind of bad, but he looked so rushed and panicked on that play, it certainly wasn't because the Pats were giving him all kinds of time. Give them that play and 2 more and I still can't say it would have made a difference.
    Woulda, coulda, shoulda...as bad as McNabb and the Eagles may have been, the Pats played even more below their usual standard.

    If it makes you feel a bit better, I'm a Falcons fan...rest well in the off-season knowing Philly spanked them hard...Next year's not that far away...(you can have the last word now).

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Ex Lion Tamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    at all this season? They routinely blew out team by double-digits, and McNabb was the ONLY QB with over 30 td passes and less than 10 interceptions. For him to have 3 in one game, although the last was just a prayer and should be discounted, was very odd. This was hardly their best performance of the season, and I don't think your calling them the
    "4th best team in the NFL" is accurate either. You take away either INT or the fumble in Pat's territory, and you have a different outcome.

    One thing you can count on, the Eagles will be there next year, and will win it. They have tons of early draft choices and will be stronger with their other starters back in the lineup. So will the Pats, but they now need new offensive and def. coordinators, so they won't be nearly as strong IMO.

    Swish
    Well their defence certainly played well enough to win.

    Couple things about this game puzzled me. The clock management on the 4th quarter TD drive was just bizarre. McNabb looked like he was on prozac or something the way he was ambling up to the line of scrimmage...almost trying to look like "hey, look at me, I'm just as poised and unflappable as Brady" They should have at least had another 30-seconds to work with after that TD which would have meant no on side kick and a really good chance at overtime.

    The other thing was McNabb's reluctance to use his legs, instead he insisted on throwing into coverage. If he tucks it in here and there and gains 30 to 40 yards for the game, I bet they win. Again, it was as if he was going to show everyone that he is NOT a running quarterback, what better stage to do so than the biggest game of thye year? Big Mistake!

    I went in thiking I wanted the Pats to win, but hoped for a close game, but as the game wore on I found myself pulling for an Eagles win. I guess once an NFC guy, always an NFC guy.
    "I don't know. A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." The Right Honourable JC.

  15. #15
    Indifferentist Slosh's Avatar
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    Bottom line was McNabb's terrible passing accuracy. Other than their second TD (which truly was a thing of beauty) he was awful. Sure, he got well over 300 yards but did he even once hit a receiver in stride? Not that I remember. Yeah, there was lots of pressure and of course that's a big part of it (just look how bad Brady looked with all of the pressure he faced in the first half), but he also made plenty of bad throws when he did have some decent protection. If McNabb was sharp yesterday all of the other problems go out the window, plain and simple. New England would have been playing catch up the whole game and wouldn't have had the time to establish a running game. Defense on both sides was exceptional. The difference in this game was McNabb made bad decisions while Brady did not.

    T.O. was awe-inspiring though. That guy's got heart and I hope his critics get off his case for a while now.
    Originally Posted by Troy: She has that same kind of cleft-pallet, slightly retarded way of singing that so many other people find endearing.


  16. #16
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Time management was a joke, but worse still was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer
    Well their defence certainly played well enough to win.

    Couple things about this game puzzled me. The clock management on the 4th quarter TD drive was just bizarre. McNabb looked like he was on prozac or something the way he was ambling up to the line of scrimmage...almost trying to look like "hey, look at me, I'm just as poised and unflappable as Brady" They should have at least had another 30-seconds to work with after that TD which would have meant no on side kick and a really good chance at overtime.

    The other thing was McNabb's reluctance to use his legs, instead he insisted on throwing into coverage. If he tucks it in here and there and gains 30 to 40 yards for the game, I bet they win. Again, it was as if he was going to show everyone that he is NOT a running quarterback, what better stage to do so than the biggest game of thye year? Big Mistake!

    I went in thiking I wanted the Pats to win, but hoped for a close game, but as the game wore on I found myself pulling for an Eagles win. I guess once an NFC guy, always an NFC guy.
    the on-side kick! Think about it for a minute; you have about a minute and 45 seconds + 2 time outs left. You try the on-side kick and it fails, like it does over 95% of the time in the NFL, forget about the added pressure in a Super Bowl!. You hold them to 3 and out and they have to punt, but they are now in your territory and pooch the sucker to the 4 yard line. With less than a minute left in the game, it's over. Now, if you kick it deep instead, they have to work from their end of the field and will be ultra-conservative so they don't give up the ball. You hold them to 3 and out, but now they punt from their own 10 our so, and the Eagles get it back at their own 35 or maybe better depending on the return. Now you have something! A couple 10 or 15 yard passes and you're getting close to field goal range. Sure, it's still a longshot, but a better chance than the on-side kick! That would have been fine if you had less than a minute and/or no time outs, but given the scenario, it made no sense. I still can't believe that none of the analysts mentioned that. It was STOOPID.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular jack70's Avatar
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    Re

    As a LONG SUFFERING (0-2 till 3 yrs ago) Pats fan, for a LONG TIME (30+ years), I gotta add my 2-cents here, before I get 100% into hoops...


    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    at all this season? They routinely blew out team by double-digits, and McNabb was the ONLY QB with over 30 td passes and less than 10 interceptions. For him to have 3 in one game, although the last was just a prayer and should be discounted, was very odd. This was hardly their best performance of the season, and I don't think your calling them the "4th best team in the NFL" is accurate either. You take away either INT or the fumble in Pat's territory, and you have a different outcome.
    Philli did play a cupcake schedule (compared to NE)... not that it's their fault. Look at the win-loss records of both team's opponents this year... plus NE had many screwy weeks (short practice weeks & late game times) because of their crazy TV scheduling. STILL, they almost went undefeated, only losing on the road to Miami by 1 point to a great defense, and on the road at Pitts w/o Corey Dillon & 4 other starters who were out... a loss where they knew they played like sh_t, and luckily had a 2'nd chance to prove it was a mistake (by smashing them).

    Now, as to McNabb... he's a great QB, but his season stats are nearly identical to Brady's, despite playing a weaker schedule, especially taking out Brady's worst game (4 ints) when he looked really bad. (he made up for it following games with perfeect play). Against the Pats, McNabb had a QB rating of 58. If you think that was all bad luck.... I think not. I'm not saying McNabb is bad, just that he didn't face as many screwy defenses (looks) of the likes of Miami or other (better) teams. NE's LB's are Pro-bowl quality, but aren't looked at that way across the country... beats the heck out of me why. I was surprised McNabb didn't run outside more, but I imagine NE's overall defensive game plan had something to do with that too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    One thing you can count on, the Eagles will be there next year, and will win it. They have tons of early draft choices and will be stronger with their other starters back in the lineup. So will the Pats, but they now need new offensive and def. coordinators, so they won't be nearly as strong IMO.
    Really impossible to predict anything at this point. The Pats could very well be last in their division next year, which may have been the best (div) in the NFL by the end of this season. Draft choices often have a 50-50 predictability factor.... lots of 1'st rounders disappear, and lots of 8-10 rounders beat the 3-4 yr avg life of an NFL player. Injuries, especially to key players, are totally unpredictable. The better teams (on paper right now) will have difficult salary issues to deal with... this includes ALL the playoff teams this season. Many assume you can sign a few big names and get better, but they forget that doing THAT means they (tend to) lose other talent, usually in key area's (Off, Def lines, LB's), where the game is often won & lost. Elway had a pretty dismal playoff record until the team got strong at some other places. And who the h_ll predicted the Pats 3 years ago? (silence). Next year's Superbowl could very well be 2 teams that neither of us would pick in our top-10 picks right now. With only 2 teams making it, there's way too many things that can go wrong, as opposed to prevailing over bad things (like the Pats needing to use undrafted DB's off their practice squad etc, and still surviving this year).


    Quote Originally Posted by Slosh
    If McNabb was sharp yesterday all of the other problems go out the window, plain and simple. New England would have been playing catch up the whole game and wouldn't have had the time to establish a running game.
    True... but at the same time if NE had played a little less sloppy early on, they could have (could'a should'a) had an early 14+ lead and you culd say the same thing about Phili needing to play catch up the whole game... no? I just think many of NE's early stumbles were of their own making (Brady losing that fumble).


    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Getting it back on their own 4 with less than a minute and no TOs was an impossible task.
    Not really. How many games do we see where the "prevent defense" gives up 50+ yards in just that situation? ...all the time. Plus Phili has a great FG kicker. A pass play takes 5-6 seconds. We've all seen it done before by guys like Elway, Montana, Farve, (& Brady), etc, let alone just average QB's. You could argue that NE had an advantage, and won (in that end part of the game) because their defenses are extremely flexible & hard to decode until the play is well under way (too late), but... the Pats also had all their best DB's out (except Rodney Harrison). IMO, that's what makes this win so special... that they lost their depth at the most skilled position (DB), and survived against a superior QB and receiver (TO).

    As for the onside kick, sure, it's a low % play, but you really have little choice. Again, your better teams (like the Pats) practice that stuff a LOT more than other (not better) teams, and that tends to show when it's used in game situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Now, if you kick it deep instead, they have to work from their end of the field and will be ultra-conservative so they don't give up the ball. You hold them to 3 and out, but now they punt from their own 10 our so, and the Eagles get it back at their own 35 or maybe better depending on the return. Now you have something! A couple 10 or 15 yard passes and you're getting close to field goal range. Sure, it's still a longshot, but a better chance than the on-side kick! That would have been fine if you had less than a minute and/or no time outs, but given the scenario, it made no sense. I still can't believe that none of the analysts mentioned that. It was STOOPID
    I gotta give you credit for being a good loyal die-hard fan... cause it was my observation that the Pats had shown themselves to be the better team by that point, even after playing their "B" game in certain areas. Phili was more tired, and was lucky they still had a shot at the very end.

    "....You hold them to 3 and out, but now they punt from their own 10 our so, and the Eagles get it back at their own 35 or maybe better....

    LOL! Corey Dillon was hurt a bit earlier in the game, but NE was still running the ball pretty much at will in the 2'nd half, and were exploiting a Phili defense which was tired. So holding them to "3 and out" is a stretch IMO. And you REALLY think NE would'a gotten pinned all the way back at their own 10? LOL!

    I'll admit I'm partisan here, having seen most all of NE's games over the past 30+ years. I just think Phili doesn't win 5+ games in a "best of 10" series vs NE on a neutral field. Sure, they win a couple, maybe even 4 or 5. But NE beat the 2 teams all the "so-called experts" predicted they'd lose to earlier in the playoffs. And beat 'em soundly. Admit it, they're worthy winners. And you're a good & loyal fan. (hey, I like Phili a lot too.)
    You don't know... jack

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