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  1. #1
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    How about college football?

    Things are getting very interesting with the loss of # 1 Texas last night. They deserved to lose for sure, based on the statistics of the game, but almost won it with some big plays in the second half. They looked hopeless in the first half as Tech seemed to have an answer for everything they tried to do offensively, and Tech moved the ball very well against the Horns defense. A missed field goal and a lost fumble that resulted in a Texas field goal made the first half a little closer than it should have been.

    So now we have Alabama likely moving into the # 1 spot and Penn State, my alma mater, moving up to # 2, unless Tech somehow moves past one or both of of them. I'm not sure I believe that Alabama is as good as advertised. Yes, they beat # 9 Clemson and 'then # 3' Georgia, but Florida hammered Georgia yesterday, so they were likely overrated, and Clemson is now a 4 loss team, so the strength of the victory is diluted quite a lot.They also struggled mightily against Tulane, Kentucky (who Florida annihilated 63-5), and Mississippi, all unranked and big underdogs in those games.

    Then we have Penn State, with the supposedly weak schedule, struggling to get by Ohio State last week. Yes, USC crushed OSU early in the season, but USC was the home team while Penn State was on the road, and that makes quite a difference, especially in the middle of the season when teams have gained experience as a unit. Also keep in mind that Penn State whupped Oregon State, who went on to beat USC and knock them from the # 1 ranking. I grant you that they have some patsies among those 9 wins; Coastal Carolina and Temple, but so do all the top ranked teams, at least to some degree. If they run the table in the Big 10, they should, and will, play for the 'mythical' national championship.

    So we now have only 5 unbeaten Division 1 teams; Alabama, Penn State, Texas Tech, Utah, and Boise State. Bama's toughest game remaining is next week at LSU. Penn State's toughest is also next week at Iowa, and Tech's toughest is at home with OK State, also next Saturday. I sincerely doubt all three will remain undefeated, but we shall see. Boise State is plagued with a weak schedule, ditto Utah, so it's unlikely they will leapfrog over anyone who wins out, even one-loss teams like Florida and USC.

    In any event, it should be quite an exciting finish to a wild season.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I think Texas and Oklahoma may remain in the hunt. Texas has had a very tough last 4 games and it caught up to them for a half. That half was enough to cost them the game. They certainly had a chance to win the game, but their Prevent defense in the last 1:29 Prevented them from winning the game. They should've stuck with the pressure that was working instead of backing off and just trying to keep the plays in front of them.

    I believe Alabama and Penn State are both not as good as their rankings would indicate. LSU will have an opportunity to explain that clearly to Alabama, but Penn State might just cruise into the BCS Championship game. Tech has to worry about OK State, it's true...but OU looms larger, given that that one's in Norman and OU is playing very, very well. I think there's a bit of intimidation factor that OU has for the Big 12 South teams, too.

    As for evaluating a team who beat the team you beat or how bad the team you beat has beaten some other team, we all certainly know that doesn't hold up. Each week the teams find out more about each other and themselves. They have to find out how good they really are. Early in any season, you might have a game where, for example, two conference rivals look good against each other and then eventually the season proves that one of them is really not very good at all. Ole Miss's win in September doesn't tell me much about the quality of this year's Florida team...at least, not as much as yesterday's game at UGA.

    As for running the table in the Big 10 and therefore deserving to play for the BCS Championship, it's certainly subjective. College football in the bowl subdivision is both a beauty contest and a war of attrition. The Big 10 is playing it right by not having a conference championship game or scheduling tough nonconference games. Some teams, like Southern Cal, seem to have challenging nonconference schedules. The championship games of the SEC and Big 12 have proven to be the end of BCS dreams from time to time. The Big 10 has smartly bypassed all that and seems to have put a high number of teams in the BCS championship game.
    Last edited by 02audionoob; 11-02-2008 at 07:46 AM.

  3. #3
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    You're talking out both sides of your mouth my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    I think Texas and Oklahoma may remain in the hunt.

    I believe Alabama and Penn State are both not as good as their rankings would indicate. LSU will have an opportunity to explain that clearly to Alabama, but Penn State might just cruise into the BCS Championship game.

    As for running the table in the Big 10 and therefore deserving to play for the BCS Championship, it's certainly subjective. College football in the bowl subdivision is both a beauty contest and a war of attrition. The Big 10 is playing it right by not having a conference championship game or scheduling tough nonconference games. Some teams, like Southern Cal, seem to have challenging nonconference schedules. The championship games of the SEC and Big 12 have proven to be the end of BCS dreams from time to time. The Big 10 has smartly bypassed all that and seems to have put a high number of teams in the BCS championship game.
    I didn't say Penn State deserves to play in the BCS Championship if they run the table in the Big 10, just that, being ranked where they are THIS YEAR, nobody else will be able to topple them from the top spot if they win out, nor should they. They got screwed out of a championship back in 1994 when Nebraska

    Also, you mention that the Big 10 avoids tough non-conference schedules. a myth that is perpetuated by ill-advised network commentators. Did USC not just play a Big 10 team in a non-conference game? So what was Ohio State avoiding? Penn State played Syracuse, who admittedly are in the midst of a down year, but that game was scheduled 7 years ago when they were 10-3! They also scheduled Oregon State, another perennial top 25 team, who they clobbered at home thankfully. Coastal Carolina wasn't pretty, but they threw a bone to a former PSU player who coaches there, and handed them a big fat check they needed for their program.

    My point is that all power-house teams schedule a patsy or two, and that's just the way it is. The Big 10 never had a conference championship game and I don't see why they need one and why it's so relevant. If they don't have a national playoff system for Division 1 football, like they do in every other sport, why is it so important? Until that day arrives, anyone who wins is simply a 'mythical' champion, at least to some degree. Penn State got screwed out of one championship in 1994 (Kerry Collins' undefeated team) when Nebraska leap-frogged over PSU after they surrendered 2 late touchdowns to Illinois, after the scrubs entered the game, and making it appear much closer than the score indicated. It won't happen this year, at least I doubt it could happen. First things first, they need to win the last 3, and Iowa and Michigan State won't lay down for them.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  4. #4
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    If I have something to say on the topic of college football, it isn't necessarily an argument with you. It's ok to let me say something, too. I realized I expressed some opposing opinions, but I didn't say anything like "you're talking out of both sides of your mouth". Seems like blood boils fast around here.

  5. #5
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Schedules in college football are made years in advance, so you never know what to expect. The Pac-10 and SEC have a thing going, where one or two teams play each other. Tennessee in the past have played many a PAC-10 teams, but the last two or three years have been down years for Tennessee, but that could change by next season. Same with Michigan, who've seemingly played a powderpuff schedule with Appalachian State and Toledo on the schedule, and those games went differently than planned I'm sure.

    If 'Bama runs the table, then they definitely belong in the BCS Championship, and same with Penn St. Yes, LSU will be the ultimate test for Bama, and Penn St has hurtles as well. As the Georgia/Florida game showed us, you cannot rest on your laurels this time of year.

    Its complete BS that a team loses it ranking when they win a close game, because of point spread. Joe Paterno has never been accused of running up a score to my recollection, but if he doesn't, he loses ground in the poles. Using points for a determining factor only encourages running the score up, something the media supposedly detests. As long as points are a factor, I say run it up, or as Barry Switzer once said, "Knock 'em on their ass and hang half a hundred on 'em".

  6. #6
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Sorry that it sounded a bit heavy-handed dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    If I have something to say on the topic of college football, it isn't necessarily an argument with you. It's ok to let me say something, too. I realized I expressed some opposing opinions, but I didn't say anything like "you're talking out of both sides of your mouth". Seems like blood boils fast around here.
    I only meant the part about USC scheduling tough non-conference opponents while the Big 10 schedules cupcakes, and that Ohio State played USC this year, so that didn't make sense. My blood wasn't boiling, but I've heard that comment about the Big 10 over and over, and it ticks me off. There just seems to be this love affair that the press has with certain teams and certain conferences, and it's getting nauseating.

    You're right, it is ok to say something, but I look at it like a debate, not an argument. Had I started it differently, perhaps you wouldn't have taken offense, but none was intended.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  7. #7
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    While playing a 1-AA team seems like a cake-walk....

    Quote Originally Posted by 3-LockBox
    Schedules in college football are made years in advance, so you never know what to expect. The Pac-10 and SEC have a thing going, where one or two teams play each other. Tennessee in the past have played many a PAC-10 teams, but the last two or three years have been down years for Tennessee, but that could change by next season. Same with Michigan, who've seemingly played a powderpuff schedule with Appalachian State and Toledo on the schedule, and those games went differently than planned I'm sure.

    If 'Bama runs the table, then they definitely belong in the BCS Championship, and same with Penn St. Yes, LSU will be the ultimate test for Bama, and Penn St has hurtles as well. As the Georgia/Florida game showed us, you cannot rest on your laurels this time of year.

    Its complete BS that a team loses it ranking when they win a close game, because of point spread. Joe Paterno has never been accused of running up a score to my recollection, but if he doesn't, he loses ground in the poles. Using points for a determining factor only encourages running the score up, something the media supposedly detests. As long as points are a factor, I say run it up, or as Barry Switzer once said, "Knock 'em on their ass and hang half a hundred on 'em".
    ...Appalachian State was two time defending national champion of that division, and they actually have a playoff. I would guess they could have been many unranked division 1 teams last year. Even though they're 1-AA, they're still college kids, so it's not like playing a high school team. Toledo, however, is having a down year, so that was a surprise. One other note--Bobby Bowden has something like 70 wins over 1-AA opponents to his credit from his days at Samford and the like, so comparing his all-time win total to Paterno is misleading at best. Had to get that dig in there.

    As for the margin of victory, that supposedly isn't being considered any longer, but I have to believe that, at least in the coaches poll, they're looking at that to some degree, and the Coaches poll is a component of the BCS. This year, the BCS Standings will include three components: USA Today Coaches Poll, Harris Interactive College Football Poll and an average of six computer rankings. Each component will count one-third of a team's overall BCS score in the BCS Standings.

    Yeah, Joe Pa never liked to run up the score, and I agree with that philosophy. All it does is create bad blood, and who needs to give another team extra incentive for the future?

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  8. #8
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    I only meant the part about USC scheduling tough non-conference opponents while the Big 10 schedules cupcakes, and that Ohio State played USC this year, so that didn't make sense. My blood wasn't boiling, but I've heard that comment about the Big 10 over and over, and it ticks me off. There just seems to be this love affair that the press has with certain teams and certain conferences, and it's getting nauseating.

    You're right, it is ok to say something, but I look at it like a debate, not an argument. Had I started it differently, perhaps you wouldn't have taken offense, but none was intended.

    Swish

    You're right...the tone was established by the subject line. A debate doesn't include an attack on the person, it includes facts or opinions. Sure, you can point out one game in which one Big 10 team played USC and you can also argue that an opponent of a Big 10 team was good when scheduled...it's part of the debate. Some facts are more valid than others...that's part of the debate, too. But when I see Big 10 schedules that include Coastal Carolina, Youngstown State, Miami OH, Troy, Toledo, Syracuse and Temple I see weakness on average...I said nothing about cupcakes. And one can always find an exception.

    I have no beef with the Big 10 or the way they've played their way into the BCS championship game in past years. I also have no beef with its mythical nature, if others contend that's the case. I refer to the game as the BCS Championship for a reason...it's the championship game at hand. I don't know whether it rates as a national championship...I just know it's a championship game every team is trying to get into. I understand Coach Paterno favors a playoff system, so I won't criticize Penn State if they wind up in the game. It make sense...a coach that's been screwed about four times by the mythical championship that the AP hands out certainly is not going to favor anything but settling it on the field.

    That said...I love the current setup. It's the best regular-season in sports.

  9. #9
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Well said, and if I picked apart the schedules of other...

    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    You're right...the tone was established by the subject line. A debate doesn't include an attack on the person, it includes facts or opinions. Sure, you can point out one game in which one Big 10 team played USC and you can also argue that an opponent of a Big 10 team was good when scheduled...it's part of the debate. Some facts are more valid than others...that's part of the debate, too. But when I see Big 10 schedules that include Coastal Carolina, Youngstown State, Miami OH, Troy, Toledo, Syracuse and Temple I see weakness on average...I said nothing about cupcakes. And one can always find an exception.

    I have no beef with the Big 10 or the way they've played their way into the BCS championship game in past years. I also have no beef with its mythical nature, if others contend that's the case. I refer to the game as the BCS Championship for a reason...it's the championship game at hand. I don't know whether it rates as a national championship...I just know it's a championship game every team is trying to get into. I understand Coach Paterno favors a playoff system, so I won't criticize Penn State if they wind up in the game. It make sense...a coach that's been screwed about four times by the mythical championship that the AP hands out certainly is not going to favor anything but settling it on the field.

    That said...I love the current setup. It's the best regular-season in sports.
    ...conferences, I would find plenty of patsies. In fact you would be surprised by the some of the teams on the SEC schedule this year:

    Alabama: Western Kentucky, though I give us a bit of a pass on this one since they're in a transition year to being D1...though I don't know if this was known when the scheduling decision was made. WKU is playing 10 D1 opponents this year.
    Arkansas: Western Illinois
    Auburn: Tennessee-Martin
    Florida: The Citadel
    Georgia: Georgia Southern
    Kentucky: Norfolk State, Western Kentucky (I'd be interested to know if both count toward bowl eligibility...)
    LSU: Appalachian State
    Mississippi State: Southeastern Louisiana
    Ole Miss: Samford
    South Carolina: Wofford

    And here was the schedule for the Big XII back in September:

    * Southeast Missouri State @ Missouri
    * Cincinatti @ Oklahoma
    * Texas @ Texas El-Paso
    * Texas Tech @ Nevada
    * Louisiana Tech @ Kansas
    * San Jose State @ Nebraska
    * Oklahoma State @ Houston
    * Eastern Washington @ Colorado
    * Kent State @ Iowa State
    * Texas A&M @ New Mexico
    * Northwestern Louisiana State @ Baylor

    You can say they need some fodder before getting into the meat of their schedule, but the same can be said for the Big 10, where road games in late October and November can be brutal. All conferences can be accused of setting up a game or two with inferior opponents.

    I do agree it's the best regular season in all of sports, but having a playoff would be freakin' amazing, if only the powers that be could rub the past out of their eyes and envision the possibilities.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  10. #10
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    So now Texas Tech moves into second ahead of Penn State?

    I figgin' knew it would happen. Gee, why not just put them into first place? Oh, because it's Alabama. Well, I'm not going to start crying now as I smell a loss coming for one of the top three, but if all three win out and we get the shaft, bitter won't even cover it.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  11. #11
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    That's just the AP poll. BCS isn't out, is it?

  12. #12
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    No, it's the BCS poll, and humans had nothing to do...

    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    That's just the AP poll. BCS isn't out, is it?
    ...with it either, so I guess I have to suck it up for now. Read on....

    Texas Tech moves up to No. 2 in BCS standings
    FOXSports.com
    2 minutes ago
    One Texas team fell out of the top two in the BCS standings.

    Another one took its place.

    While Alabama moved up to the top spot in the rankings, the bigger development Sunday was Texas Tech leapfrogging idle Penn State and grabbing at least for the time being one of the two spots in the title game.

    One day after beating the Longhorns, the Red Raiders jumped all the way from seventh to second in the standings. And they did so thanks to a wide swath of support.

    The human voters had Texas Tech No. 3 in both the Harris and USA Today polls, behind just 'Bama and Penn State, but within shouting distance of the Nittany Lions in both.

    However, the Red Raiders were No. 1 in three of the six computer polls utilized in the formula and were tied with the Tide for the top spot in that portion of the formula.
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  13. #13
    Stone Stone's Avatar
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    If Texas Tech makes it through its schedule undefeated, they deserve to be #1. But I doubt we'll need to debate it.
    And the world will turn to flowing pink vapor stew.

  14. #14
    Stone Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish

    and Tech's toughest is at home with OK State, also next Saturday.

    Swish
    Well, you left out the little game they have after that with Oklahoma, who I think is better than OK State.
    And the world will turn to flowing pink vapor stew.

  15. #15
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Right on both counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone
    Well, you left out the little game they have after that with Oklahoma, who I think is better than OK State.
    I doubt they'll go undefeated, and that game with Oklahoma should be tougher...although I won't say until I see the results. Let's just say the top 3 all have a tough weekend coming up. It does look like TT won't come out unscathed, but you never know.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  16. #16
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    I doubt Fulmer will back at Tennessee after this season. Same with the Michigan coach. Basketball or any other sport can do whatever, but these two are football schools all the way and they won't tollerate losing.

  17. #17
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    The Michigan coach? After just one year? That would...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3-LockBox
    I doubt Fulmer will back at Tennessee after this season. Same with the Michigan coach. Basketball or any other sport can do whatever, but these two are football schools all the way and they won't tollerate losing.
    ...be really wild, seeing how Rich Rod stuck WVU in the back and had to pay back 4 million. I just don't see them dumping him, even after their pitiful performance this year, but nothing would surprise me. They were mediocre last year and Rich didn't have much time to recruit, so I'm guessing they'll give him another year or two, but no way more than that. I lost a lot of respect for him due to the way he took off under the cover of night, so I think he's getting his just desserts. I know a few WVU fans who are really happy to see him losing out there.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  18. #18
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Well well, I just heard it on the radio - Phil Fulmer out at the end of the season. I'm actually sorry to see him go. He's Tennessee's greatest coach ever (in my lifetime anyway). They spun their wheels under Majors and only became contenders when Fulmer took over. Fulmer will coach anywhere else he wants to though.

    Someone should tell Fulmer about the opening at Washington after this year, how they'll improve in just one year and clean house recruiting in-state talent with a proven winner like Fulmer at the helm, and they already have a strapping young lad named Jake Locker at QB, whose just a tad smaller than Tebo, but a tad faster, and who has been woefully underused in Ty Willingham's unimaginative, predictable scheme.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular JDaniel's Avatar
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    Yeah Todd, I watched the press conference live today. As a fan, I'm ready for a change. But I was a bit saddened to see it end this way. For any head coach to stay/survive at the same school, especially in a conference like the SEC, for 17 years is amazing. The average tenure has to be less than 5 years at most schools. He's been there since 1968. As a player & coach, he was on the sideline for 422 games. I'll be in Neyland Stadium this Saturday.

    Wonder who the next coach will be?

    Jeff
    Tu le ton son temp..... That's what we'd say ... (Lucinda Williams)

  20. #20
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    He shouldn't have been forced out, but what can you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by JDaniel
    Yeah Todd, I watched the press conference live today. As a fan, I'm ready for a change. But I was a bit saddened to see it end this way. For any head coach to stay/survive at the same school, especially in a conference like the SEC, for 17 years is amazing. The average tenure has to be less than 5 years at most schools. He's been there since 1968. As a player & coach, he was on the sideline for 422 games. I'll be in Neyland Stadium this Saturday.

    Wonder who the next coach will be?

    Jeff
    It's the way things go in Division I, especially when the wealthy alumni pressure the school and force a change. They were calling for Paterno's head for years, until the team finally looked like contenders a few years ago, then the whining stopped, but started all over again 3 seasons ago. This man should be allowed to leave on his own terms, period. He's a legitimate living legend and I will be terribly sad when he is finally through with football. He's made plenty of mistakes, especially last season when he started that bum QB Morelli ahead of Daryll Clark, all because he was a senior who started the previous year. Joe has this allegiance to his players that, while honorable, is often detrimental to the team. Clark was clearly better and showed flashed of greatness, and his running/elusive skills could have made the difference in a couple losses. Oh well, that's all in the past now. I just hope they can win out and take the championship, but lots of things have to go there way for that to happen.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

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