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  1. #1
    Forum Regular Olivertmc's Avatar
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    Dual-Disc Question

    I've been noticing that many new albums are being released in the dual-disc format (e.g. Springsteen, Ben Folds). I'm not overly interested in all of the "extras" as I barely have time to watch the special features on my dvd's, but I am curious about the 5.1 mix that is included with some albums. My questions is this - is the 5.1 mix in DVD-A or can it be listened to with Dolby Digital and/or Dts? I have only a SACD player at home - is it worth giving dual-disc a try? Thanks.

    Olivertmc

  2. #2
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Dual Discs have a DTS or DD layer on them usually, and some have higher, better resolution DVD-A track on them as well, in both stereo and hi-rez...
    However, early on it appears that there is no consistency as to which formats make the disc...Some have all the fancy hi-rez tracks of DVD-A, some just have Dolby Digital or DTS for the multi-channel track with extras filling the rest of the space...
    I'm afraid your best bet is to carefully read the covers to find out what is on each disc, or check a decent album review website...
    Dolby Digital is okay and often sounds better than a 2-channel stereo track I find, but it's disappointing that the full potential of this format isn't being used.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular Olivertmc's Avatar
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    Thanks Kexodusc. It's such a mess - seems to be going down the road of SACD and DVD-A. While I am certainly no expert on this stuff, I think I am more informed than the average audio consumer. If I can't figure this out, how do these companies expect others to determine why they should buy these formats?

  4. #4
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    ...and I believe some (probably most) of the dual disc's cd side is not even up to redbook standard. This will have to change for dual discs to survive.

  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Hawkeye:
    I think what you are referring to is the depth of the disc. The actual CD portion's "quality" is by all accounts equal to that of CD. The only issue with the RBCD tag is that Phillips and Sony have a vested interest in not promoting the DualDisc (ahem: SACD), so they're playing hardball in authorizing the RBCD tag - the excuse being that neither the DualDisc or the "CD" layer are the exact depth of the RBCD. Hence, DualDiscs had to rush out and change marketing, and refer to the CD layer as "Audio side" or foolish names like that.
    The Audio Quality of the digital info on the CD layer is no differen than RBCD. And even Sony claims that players that have difficulty with DualDisc will probably also have difficulties with "Enhanced CD's" and some of the other goofy RBCD variations.


    I think the industry's desire to own the patent to the CD's "replacement" is the biggest threat to DualDiscs and other formats...If they all got together and said "here's SACD", or "here's DualDisc, there is no more RBCD", the format would do fine, prices wouldn't skyrocket, and we'd move on.
    Here, both sides are involved in a staring contest and neither side wants to blink first.

    The irony is, if DualDisc fails I don't see the world reverting to DVD-A, so SACD might emerge the victor as the replacement to CD.

    I'm not married to any format, and there's no reason why both (or all 3) couldn't co-exist profitably now that good universal players are cheap. I just want hi-rez and multi-channel audio, and Dolby Digital ain't exactly what I had in mind...if that's all I can get for now, well, I'll take what I can get.

    You guys think it's bad now?
    Wait until BluRay and HD-DVD hit the market simultaneously, and then the audiolabels start using those discs to store way more audio and extras....

  6. #6
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    The Dual Disc CD layer can't be recognized by any of my computers. No more Dual Disc for me. I haven't tried it in the car yet, but I probably don't need to bother.

    DualDisc seems doomed to fail.

  7. #7
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    I have a dual disc dvd-r blue ray cdr MFSL album, do you think it will play?

    Dave

  8. #8
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Yes, but only if you have a universal DVD/DVD-R/DVD-RW/CD-R/CD-RW/XBOX/BLURAY/SACD/HDMI/DVI/PCI/DVD+R/DVD-A player.

  9. #9
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    My DualDiscs play on my laptop, home PC, and work PC, but they are having some software problems...Windows media is the most user friendly right now...but then again, Hybrid-SACD's have the same problem...

    Dammit I just wish they'd pick a format and jump behind it...hi-rez is too awesome to be screwed up by greedy Sony and Toshiba.

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    A Truly Mixed Bag

    It is truly a mixed bag when it comes to DualDisc from my limited experience. The only truly high resolution DualDisc I own is the Grateful Dead's American Beauty which is the same on the DVD side as the original DVD-Audio release. The other three titles I own are all Sony releases (Miles Davis, Los Lonely Boys and the new Bruce Springsteen). We all know we won't be seeing any DVD-Audio releases from them. Anyways all three of these titles feature a Dolby Digital 5.1 mix of the album. All three feature some additonal video tracks, video clips, commentaries, etc. The Springsteen includes a PCM stereo selection on the DVD side also.

    Most of the disc I see coming out now which are truly high resolution DVD-Audio are either being released as a "traditional" DVD-Audio (although not very many) such as Cassandra Wilson Travelin Miles but the majority are being released as CD+DVD two disc packages such as all of the REM Warner releases and the Mark Knopfler Sailing to Philadelphia and Shangri La releases. Then you have the Neil Young Greatest Hits CD+DVD package and god only knows what that DVD is all about. It is advertised as High Resolution Stereo but my player does not indicate it is a DVD-Audio disc (as it does with the others) and give no information via the display button as to the resolution (as does all my other DVD-Audio disc).

  11. #11
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    Sony Marketing of Dual Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Hawkeye:
    I think what you are referring to is the depth of the disc. The actual CD portion's "quality" is by all accounts equal to that of CD. The only issue with the RBCD tag is that Phillips and Sony have a vested interest in not promoting the DualDisc (ahem: SACD), so they're playing hardball in authorizing the RBCD tag - the excuse being that neither the DualDisc or the "CD" layer are the exact depth of the RBCD. Hence, DualDiscs had to rush out and change marketing, and refer to the CD layer as "Audio side" or foolish names like that.
    ....
    If this is true then why do the Sony DualDisc I own (Miles Davis, Los Lonely Boys and Bruce Springsteen) all have one side clearly labeled DVD and the other side clearly labeled CD ?

  12. #12
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    mwheelerk: That's a pretty good question...I just picked up the Nine Inch Nails dualdisc scheduled to be released on May 3 and it is also labelled as a "CD layer". I was expecting something differrent.

    There will be an impending legal battle no doubt...Phillips is not approving of companies calling it a CD layer, layer and claim they are profiting off the intellectual property "CD" title...makes sense, and you'll rarely see a CD logo on these things.

    I can provide several links if you wish that confirm this, I believe Sony and Phillips mention it on their websites somewhere as well...
    Here's a very good, and very recent article on it.

    http://www.dvdfile.com/news/viewpoin...005/03_14.html

  13. #13
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Dual Discs have a DTS or DD layer on them usually, and some have higher, better resolution DVD-A track on them as well, in both stereo and hi-rez...
    However, early on it appears that there is no consistency as to which formats make the disc...Some have all the fancy hi-rez tracks of DVD-A, some just have Dolby Digital or DTS for the multi-channel track with extras filling the rest of the space...
    I'm afraid your best bet is to carefully read the covers to find out what is on each disc, or check a decent album review website...
    Dolby Digital is okay and often sounds better than a 2-channel stereo track I find, but it's disappointing that the full potential of this format isn't being used.
    Why would they use full potential now when latter they can reissue it with full potential so everyone can buy it again. Isnt that what they do best?
    Look & Listen

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