• 06-22-2005, 09:36 PM
    oliver kuo
    Does John Cage 4'33" exist in recorded format?
    I got in a little bet with a friend who swears he's seen an albumn with John Cage's 4'33" listed as one of the tracks. Oh, and he swears its a cd. I really doubt there's an actually recorded track of 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence, besides, I thought the artistic value of that track was that the background noises were meant to be the music. So a recorded version would not have the same effect.

    So does anyone know for sure whether or not this track has been recorded on cd?
  • 06-23-2005, 05:09 AM
    MindGoneHaywire
    Here ya go. There may be more.

    http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...3&sql=43:52415
  • 06-23-2005, 05:51 AM
    oliver kuo
    I can't believe it, I guess I lost that bet.
  • 06-23-2005, 10:31 PM
    Dusty Chalk
    Cage's treatise on silence does go so far as to incorporate recording. His version -- if true to his intent -- would not be the equivalent of all zeroes, "digital black". It would be a recording of an ensemble not playing. Part of his "experiment" would be the foibles that the restlessness of the musicians would cause to be recorded, just for one example.
  • 06-24-2005, 03:42 PM
    oliver kuo
    Exactly, so how is a recording supposed to capture that? Record a full orchestra just sitting there and fidgeting?
  • 06-24-2005, 09:19 PM
    Troy
    Yeah, how do we know there were musicians there and not just a bunch of plumbers? How do we really know how many people were in the room at all? Maybe NO ONE was there.

    The whole thing is a travesty, a joke played on the listener. And the intellectuals are too stupid, too caught up in their head trips over the high concept to get that they are being made fun of.

    Is THAT the point? To insult us? Kinda far removed from what music is about, isn't it?
  • 06-25-2005, 06:39 PM
    oliver kuo
    well this insult/joke went as far as to prove me wrong, as well as lose $50.

    man have i ever been duped.
  • 06-26-2005, 09:42 AM
    Dusty Chalk
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oliver kuo
    Exactly, so how is a recording supposed to capture that? Record a full orchestra just sitting there and fidgeting?
    Exactly.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Troy
    Yeah, how do we know there were musicians there and not just a bunch of plumbers? How do we really know how many people were in the room at all? Maybe NO ONE was there.
    I guess it depends on the quality of the recording, and the quality of the reproduction equipment.
    Quote:
    The whole thing is a travesty, a joke played on the listener.
    Actually, you're not far from the truth. There's a fine line between high-brow art and stupidity, IMHO. I'm just reiterating John Cage's intentions, not defending him.

    Quote:
    And the intellectuals are too stupid, too caught up in their head trips over the high concept to get that they are being made fun of.
    Well, I consider myself somewhat intellectual (although there's always room for improvment), and I fully agree that there's quite a bit of material there to be made fun of.

    But here's a scary thought -- in this case, the maker-funner-of (John Cage) is so caught up in it himself, that he doesn't realize he's making fun of anyone. I honestly believe this to be the case.
    Quote:
    Is THAT the point? To insult us? Kinda far removed from what music is about, isn't it?
    I can't honestly say what the point is, but if you take what he's done -- exaggerate an aspect of music to the logical extreme -- you may have noticed that I just defined "satire". What is it, if not satire, "pushing the envelope"? I'm not sure I can put my finger on exactly what the difference between "pushing the envelope" and satire.

    Other than the result is usually funny, in one case.