Which portable player and lossless format questions

[westcott]

Hi,

Some of you may be familiar with my posting elsewhere but when it comes to MP3, iPods, and the like, I am clueless. I have avoided the technology because I have no use for compressed music but I would like to be able to have a portable solution using a lossless software format. I presume most of the players can play or store any file but is lossless audio material readily available or does Apple or someone else dominate this area?

Does anyone mind taking a moment to bring me up to speed or make a recommendation on the best way to crack this nut. If it makes a difference, I listen to mostly classic rock and roll and some jazz/acoustic compostions.

[Dusty Chalk]

iPod totally dominates this area, lossless or otherwise. People just love the interface, and the sound quality is certainly no worse than anything else out there.

[westcott]

iPod totally dominates this area, lossless or otherwise. People just love the interface, and the sound quality is certainly no worse than anything else out there.

So, does an iPod come with the lossless compression drivers too or do I have to go somewhere else for the best software? Is there a compression format that dominates, as far as superior audio quality?

Personally, I am not sure why the portable players, car stereos, and AV receivers do not just take a USB memory stick, or do they! To me, that is the obvious solution.

[noddin0ff]

I use my iPod Nano for lossless.

iPods will support three lossless formats. WAV, AIFF, and ALE (Apple lossless encoder). WAV and AIFF are non-compressed. ALE is the compressed lossless format. The compression is performed by the iTunes software that you will need to install to interface your computer with the iPod. So...the compression is performed and the files stored on your computer, then transferred to the iPod.

Regarding lossless compression formats there are several. Unfortunately each major player generally supports their own format. The quality doesn't really matter. It's lossless. What people start debating is the efficiency of the programs doing the job. However, filesize doesn't vary much at all.

The open source format of choice if FLAC. Some portable player will play it. iPods will not.

iTunes and iPods are very easy to use and the formats are good.

[westcott]

I use my iPod Nano for lossless.

iPods will support three lossless formats. WAV, AIFF, and ALE (Apple lossless encoder). WAV and AIFF are non-compressed. ALE is the compressed lossless format. The compression is performed by the iTunes software that you will need to install to interface your computer with the iPod. So...the compression is performed and the files stored on your computer, then transferred to the iPod.

Regarding lossless compression formats there are several. Unfortunately each major player generally supports their own format. The quality doesn't really matter. It's lossless. What people start debating is the efficiency of the programs doing the job. However, filesize doesn't vary much at all.

The open source format of choice if FLAC. Some portable player will play it. iPods will not.

iTunes and iPods are very easy to use and the formats are good.

Thanks a heap!!!

That was the kind of answer I was looking for.

One last question. Can DVD audio or SACD also be used with iTunes software and what happens to the discrete channel information during this process? I guess that is two questions!

[noddin0ff]

Multi channel doesn't work. The output after decoding is PCM like a CD. There's no multichannel support in iTunes.

I don't think SACD plays on any computer. The decoding for SACD is done by 'black box' hardware. There's no software (like iTunes) that can read it. Sony wants it that way. Obviously, the dual layer SACD that have the CD layer as well can be read as CD.

[westcott]

Multi channel doesn't work. The output after decoding is PCM like a CD. There's no multichannel support in iTunes.

I don't think SACD plays on any computer. The decoding for SACD is done by 'black box' hardware. There's no software (like iTunes) that can read it. Sony wants it that way. Obviously, the dual layer SACD that have the CD layer as well can be read as CD.

Well, speak of the devil. Here is a link just published describing in more detail what kind or frequency response you can expect from an iPod. Long story short, iPod needs to work on this so bass response is far more linear. It ain't the headphones fault!

Secrets iPod review and detailed analysis

[audio_dude]

Something here: I've had experience with many, many iPod and I can say from experience how the bass actually is on a particular model.

It was the third generation iPod (the one that was used in the tests) that had gained a reputation for being bass shy below 100htz. The iPod shuffle is probably the best sounding iPod ever made, with nearly flat response. But the new Nanos and the Videos have almost flat responses too. It really depends on lots of factors, such as the earphones you are using (the stock apple ones have nothing below 100htz...) and also, a big one is the IMPEDANCE! I highly recommend everyone use a small, portable headphone amp when using anything other than cheap earbuds.

[toddamo]

I just bought an 80GB ipod...and I'm pleased to see the "Secrets" Ipod review.

I agree with a lot of it.

iTunes is some clunky, awkward software.

The Ipod is great for all the obvious reasons...organizing your music,
having lots of music in one small place, etc.

But as far as sound quality...I dunno.

Last night I put a track on my Ipod in Apple Lossless Format.

I turned off the EQ and plugged it into my Harmon Kardon receiver.

I put a CD with the same track as on the Ipod and pressed play on both...

A/B'ing back and forth....The Ipod puts out a lot less juice than my CD player.

So compensating for the volume (by turning up the receiver when I switched to the Ipod),
the CD sounded much better.

More definition, more clarity, more spatial depth.

The iPod sounded...flatter.

So basically, I ditched the idea that I would play my music from the Ipod and
put the CDs away in storage.

The Ipod is a great tool for listening to music on the road...

...Or if you're like most consumers (which you wouldn't be hanging out on this board)
and don't really care about audio quality.

Great toy but...It's just not quite there....yet as far as audiophile sound.

Now...I am on week number one with this machine...and I am no expert on any of this.

I'm sure I will learn and my opinions will evolve.

But so far...that's where it's at for me.

-todd amodeo

http://toddamodeo.com

[emorphien]

I've always found the iPod to sound flat compared to competing players, and agree about iTunes. I'm glad there are a lot of good alternatives for Windows, but I don't even like using iTunes on my mac.

[audio_dude]

how did you connect the iPod? through the headphone port? BADDD...


You'll need to use the iPods line-out for good sound in a stereo.

(all docks do this, you MIGHT be able to find the proper cable, because the line out is through the dock connector)

[bonethugz]

yes unless you plan using only cheap/bad earphone/headphone. you need using lineout with an amp to sound acceptable. i said acceptable because i believe people here care about sound quality right? the ipod's internal amp/headphone jack is just bad. maybe there are a few ok iem/headphone on the market that sound ok without an amp but they'll sound better with an amp, specally through lineout. i only have experience with a cheap amp(pa2v2) but it just get better with lineout

[EnterDaMatrix]

I use the Rockbox firmware to play FLAC and Ogg on my iPod. Its so awesome if you're like me and NEVER need to watch videos.

[audio_dude]

yeah. rockbox is pretty good