Magnepan 1d

[IBSTORMIN]

I have thought about trying some type of planer speaker and this looks interesting. What can you tell me about this speaker pair? All I know is they were built in 1980 and they are 4' x 6'. What type is it, how much power to drive properly, sound quality, best placement, known problems. I have a local guy wanting to sell a pair for $500. Says they are near perfect. I haven't seen or heard them yet and thought I would get your guys input. Anything you can tell me would help me decide if I should go take a look/listen.

[JoeE SP9]

They would be Tympani 1D's. They have three hinged panels per side. They usually are bi-amped. Like all of Magnepan's speakers they need a lot of power to perform. If you have ever heard and liked any Magneplanars you will probably like them. At the very least they deserve a listen.

[IBSTORMIN]

They would be Tympani 1D's.

Yes they are!

They usually are bi-amped.

Ok, Explain. Two seperate amps to power the pair of speakers?

Like all of Magnepan's speakers they need a lot of power to perform.

200 watts RMS enough?

If you have ever heard and liked any Magneplanars you will probably like them. At the very least they deserve a listen.

Never heard them, but I like accuracy and think I might. The guy claimed they were perfect, now when asked if there was anything wrong with them he replied they probably, because of the age, are delaminating. He says it doesn't affect the sound?

[JoeE SP9]

Yes they are!


Ok, Explain. Two seperate amps to power the pair of speakers?

200 watts RMS enough?


Never heard them, but I like accuracy and think I might. The guy claimed they were perfect, now when asked if there was anything wrong with them he replied they probably, because of the age, are delaminating. He says it doesn't affect the sound?

Yes, 2 separate stereo amps. Ideally you would use an active electronic crossover. One amp drives the bass panels. One amp drives the midrange tweeter panels. They don't have to be bi-amped although they will sound better when driven by 2 stereo amps. You could use different amps for the different sections. Tubes for the midrange/tweeter panels and SS for the bass panels.

Something like 2 Adcom GFA-555's would provide enough power. They may not sound as good as a pair of Krell KSA-200's but they would work just fine. With all Magneplanar's the better the amp the better the sound. They are revealing enough to hear the differences in amps. A single 200WPC may or may not be enough depending on your room size and the volume levels you want.

If you decide you like the sound of panels, you will probably never be satisfied with boxes again. This is what happened to me. I think E-Stat had the same sort of epiphany. In his and my case this culminated in ESL's.


Delamination is when the voltage/current carrying wires lift from the mylar diaphragm. Magnepan sells a kit to re-glue the wires. This can and does happen to older Maggy's.
www.audiokarma.org has many Maggy owners who have re-glued the wires on Maggy's and lots of references about doing it.

The price sounds very good even if the wires need re-glueing. There is a pair of 1D's on Audiogon right now for $1500.

If the pair you're considering were local to me I would buy them. Give them a listen. You've got nothing to lose but the time spent. Even if you don't buy I'd like to know what you think of the "panel sound".

What blackraven said about the Maggy people is very true. Everyone who has dealt with Magneplanar says they are nice people.

[blackraven]

200wpc RMS should do. If you have questions about the longevity of that model, call Magnepan direct. I live 20min from the factory and there are nice helpful people there.

www.magnepan.com

651-426-1645

[Florian]

Not playfull 200RMS....real power ;-) Something like a Krell KMA or Mark Levinson ... big balls ;-)

[IBSTORMIN]

Not playfull 200RMS....real power ;-) Something like a Krell KMA or Mark Levinson ... big balls ;-)

I have two 200 wpc amps but they might not be up to your standards. An Onkyo Integra M-508 and their fully balanced Onkyo Integra M-588F. These sold in the 80's for $1200 and $2400. Might not be Krell but a step above Adcom. How does the Krell FPB compare to the KSA & KMA?

Delamination is when the voltage/current carrying wires lift from the mylar diaphragm. Magnepan sells a kit to re-glue the wires. This can and does happen to older Maggy's.

What active electronic crossover do you recommend?
If I can fix it myself without a lot of cost having the factory repair them, I just might be interested.

[JoeE SP9]

I have two 200 wpc amps but they might not be up to your standards. An Onkyo Integra M-508 and their fully balanced Onkyo Integra M-588F. These sold in the 80's for $1200 and $2400. Might not be Krell but a step above Adcom. How does the Krell FPB compare to the KSA & KMA?

What active electronic crossover do you recommend?
If I can fix it myself without a lot of cost having the factory repair them, I just might be interested.

I have no familiarity with Onkyo products. I mentioned Adcom because they have a reputation for being able to drive the worst loads imaginable. They worked on the original Apogee's. They were a true amp buster of a speaker. Bryston amps would be another good choice.

If the Tympani's need repair www.audiokarma.org has several posters there who have a lot of experience with gluing the traces on Maggy's.

I would try the speakers with a single amp first. It may be all you need or want. There are lots of variables. Although my system is bi-amped I use a crossover point of 85Hz to drive my subs. I don't know what is recommended for Tympani's. Something tells me this is a little to low.

There are a couple of reviews on this site you might want ot check.

Below is a link to the complete Tympani 1D manual.
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/pix/mitchell/

[IBSTORMIN]

Below is a link to the complete Tympani 1D manual.

Thanks for the manual!
The manual says "power handling" is 300 watts at 4ohms. My amps are rated 315 and 360 at 4 ohms. It says dynamic power at 2 ohms is 750 watts on the 588. Do I have too much power or is more better? There is a Krell FPB(Full Power Balanced)-200 on Ebay right now, that is why I was asking about the differences in Krell amps. My pre is balanced and was wondering if this would be a good choice.

[IBSTORMIN]

I have no familiarity with Onkyo products. I mentioned Adcom because they have a reputation for being able to drive the worst loads imaginable. They worked on the original Apogee's. They were a true amp buster of a speaker. Bryston amps would be another good choice.

Are you saying these speakers could take out my amp?

[JoeE SP9]

Are you saying these speakers could take out my amp?

Not at all. It seemed you had some concerns about amps that's why I mentioned Apogee's. As E-Stat has said the load that all Maggy's present is relatively benign although it's 4Ohms.

I've never owned any Onkyo product or a receiver from any manufacturer. So, I can't speak about what I have no knowledge of. I do have a friend that has always thought very highly of Onkyo.

[E-Stat]

What type is it, how much power to drive properly, sound quality, best placement, known problems

The Tympani series was the original Magneplanar design that debuted in the early 70s. It was hearing a similar model in 1974 that made me a planar convert. I was struck at how natural they sounded and immediately decided I had to get some. As dipoles, placement becomes more critical because the room is effectively the enclosure. Most dipoles like to be placed a good distance away from the back wall for optimum results. It is possible that the wires have delaminated over time and may require a modernization service by Magnepan. Although the early models didn't have the exceptional ribbon tweeters as they do today, they nevertheless are still a world class speaker in my opinion. There is a Magepan user group website (MUG) that has tons of info about them found here. Enjoy!

I have no familiarity with Onkyo products.

Actually, of all the Japanese manufacturers who focus on receivers, Onkyo makes some pretty decent sounding stuff.

I mentioned Adcom because they have a reputation for being able to drive the worst loads imaginable.

But Maggies of that vintage have a very benign almost purely resistive load - very unlike electrostats. Remember they were marketed and voiced with Audio Research tube amps. I first heard T-IIIs tri-amped with 75 watt / channel Audio Research D-76s. Sounded incredible.

rw

[IBSTORMIN]

But Maggies of that vintage have a very benign almost purely resistive load - very unlike electrostats. Remember they were marketed and voiced with Audio Research tube amps. I first heard T-IIIs tri-amped with 75 watt / channel Audio Research D-76s. Sounded incredible.

rw

Thanks to all for the help!
I asked the guy selling them what he has been powering them with. He says a 150 WPC Carver 722 receiver. I would think it can't be too difficult a load. I think I'm going to go listen Wednesday and buy them if I like the sound. I'll let you know.

[blackraven]

You should have no problems driving the magnepans with your amps. I drove my 1.6's with a JVC 120wpc receiver (just to hear how they would sound) and they sounded pretty good. I used an Adcom 260wpc AVR and they sounded better at loud volumes. Now I drive mine with a 400 wpc Parasound amp and they sound great. And you can't have too much power with maggies. I asked one of the engineers at Magnepan about how much power is too much. His reply was that they will take all the clean power that you can give them.

[blackraven]

Magnepans do WELL recorded vocals amazingly well to the point that you will think that the person singing is right in front of you. Acoustic music is another strength.

I would not worry about your Onkyo amp. The Maggies will sound just fine. They require a lot of clean power, especially if you like to listen at high volumes. With better quality amps you will get better resolution, deeper and punchier bass. You wont know any different unless you were doing an AB comparison between amps.

Just make sure you use a heavy guage speaker wire, 14g or better. I used 16g xp monster on my MMG's and they heated up at higher volumes. I use 10g with my MG 1.6QR's.

[IBSTORMIN]

I would not worry about your Onkyo amp. The Maggies will sound just fine. They require a lot of clean power, especially if you like to listen at high volumes. With better quality amps you will get better resolution, deeper and punchier bass. You wont know any different unless you were doing an AB comparison between amps.

I would love to compare my 1993 built Integra dual mono fully balanced 70 lb stereo amp with a Krell in an AB comparison. Integra does not make anything this good today. Sad but true. I truly would like to hear what I might be missing. I would buy it if it sounded better, once I found a deal on it!

Just make sure you use a heavy guage speaker wire, 14g or better. I used 16g xp monster on my MMG's and they heated up at higher volumes. I use 10g with my MG 1.6QR's.

Using 12 gauge already. Don't like anything Monster, at least what I've tried a few years ago wasn't worth the money.

[IBSTORMIN]

OK, I listened to them and brought them home, they look like new and have what I understand is rare black covers. When I got them home at 11pm after driving 40 miles with them in the back of my truck and storms rolling in, I was beat and just set them up in front of my other speakers to make sure they still worked. I was not impressed but they did work.
I had not explained to my wife what they were, I just told her I was going to look at a pair of speakers which she never has interest in. After seeing them because I asked her to hold the door for me, she sat down to listen which surprised me. I was even more surprised when she said they sounded really good. We both think they are just absolutely neat that a room divider provides sound. LOL
The next evening I got a chance to listen to them again and was still not impressed. They just did not sound as good as what I had been listening to, but still thought they were neater than sh't ! !
This morning I finally got a chance to pull my speakers out from behind them, set them 3' from the wall and configure them like the owner's manual says and now I AM impressed. Wall of sound that someone else had described them as is true. There is a slight loss of directionality because the sound is seperated into three panels with bass toward the inside, midrange in the middle and tweeters in the outer panel. Definitely need a sub for the real lows but still have more bass than I thought they would. I've still Gotta listen to all my CD's again!
They are in a corner of my basement. Although there is a staircase there the left side wall is non-existant for now which changes the sound from what you guys have said. The one thing I noticed is if I turn it up, I hear distortion. I have output meters on my 200 watt amp and it starts right about 50 watts output and gets worse as I turn it up. Is that the power problem you guys were talking about, is it possibly the delamination I have heard these suffer from, or that wall not being there? Any advice would be appreciated.

[JoeE SP9]

The bass from Maggy's may take some getting used to. It is not at all like the bass from a box. When operating and set up properly they should give decent response to around 40Hz.
They should not distort at the power levels you are hearing it. It is probably the delamination that was already mentioned. The wall or lack of would not cause distortion. It will cause a difference in the soundstage between left and right but not audible distortion.
You should give the people at Magnepan a call. I'm sure they will be helpful.

[IBSTORMIN]

The bass from Maggy's may take some getting used to. It is not at all like the bass from a box. When operating and set up properly they should give decent response to around 40Hz.

I actually like the sound of the bass, it's clean and goes lower than I expected.

They should not distort at the power levels you are hearing it. It is probably the delamination that was already mentioned. The wall or lack of would not cause distortion. It will cause a difference in the soundstage between left and right but not audible distortion.
You should give the people at Magnepan a call. I'm sure they will be helpful.

I found out the speakers are very revealing. What I was hearing, which I had never noticed with my other speakers was the grainy sound of a CD. When I put in one of my favorite DVD-A's the HDAD 192/24 version of Alan Parson's "I Robot" it was smooth as silk. I had my amp pumping out 150 watts and it was almost deafening but crystal clear! I'm HOOKED. The only thing I don't like is the three panel design, which spreads the sound out too much for pinpoint accuracy of stage placement. You can hear the location of an instrument move with the tone as it switches from panel to panel. That might be why they don't make a three panel design anymore!?

[blackraven]

On the Magnepan 1.6's, I believe they recommend the woofers on the inside and tweeters on the out side. Also try some toe in and place them only 6-8 feet apart.

Listen to some well recorded acoustic, piano and vocal music and you will be blown away by just how good they can sound.

[IBSTORMIN]

On the Magnepan 1.6's, I believe they recommend the woofers on the inside and tweeters on the out side. Also try some toe in and place them only 6-8 feet apart.

Listen to some well recorded acoustic, piano and vocal music and you will be blown away by just how good they can sound.

I always thought the Maggies would be very sharp. The only experience I have had with ribbons is in Infinity models and I always thought they were too harsh. These Maggies are smooth. I had been listening to a Dianna Krall DVD-A and was loving her mellow sexy voice on the Maggies. I switched back to the Preludes yesterday and my first thought was they were too bright! I let my ear adjust and found they were more detailed and had more stage placement just as I had heard before. What I lost was the warmness in her voice. She just didn't sound as sexy. The more I compare, the more I like the Maggies. When listening to rock, the Preludes win! I just need two systems now! ! ! !

How have you configured panel placement?

I think JoeE sent this already and I followed it placing the tweeters on the outside for better seperation. I have also built a sidewall where it was open before which helped a great deal. The manual is actually for the 1C with a note on the last page stating the differences in the 1D. The guy I bought them from didn't have the manual when I picked the speakers up but promised to mail it. I'm curious to see if it's different.

[Feanor]

I always thought the Maggies would be very sharp. The only experience I have had with ribbons is in Infinity models and I always thought they were too harsh. These Maggies are smooth.
...

Pardon my ignorance: do the 1D Maggies have ribbons? I had the impression that Maggies of that vintage did not.

[IBSTORMIN]

Pardon my ignorance: do the 1D Maggies have ribbons? I had the impression that Maggies of that vintage did not.

No Bill, pardon MY ignorance! They do not have ribbons. I used the wrong term because I am still learning. What type are these Maggies?

Hey Bill, I see you have a Subsonic 5! I had a Subsonic 7 and sold it to a friend that wanted it. I've missed it ever since. BIG mistake to let it go!

[E-Stat]

I think JoeE sent this already and I followed it placing the tweeters on the outside for better seperation. I have also built a sidewall where it was open before which helped a great deal. The manual is actually for the 1C with a note on the last page stating the differences in the 1D. The guy I bought them from didn't have the manual when I picked the speakers up but promised to mail it. I'm curious to see if it's different.

Do you "vee" the bass panels? How much toe in do you use for the tweeter section? How much toe in do you use for the bass section? You'll note the pictorial diagrams involve multiple placement variables beyond just "tweeters-in" or "tweeters-out".

rw

[IBSTORMIN]

Do you "vee" the bass panels? How much toe in do you use for the tweeter section? How much toe in do you use for the bass section? You'll note the pictorial diagrams involve multiple placement variables beyond just "tweeters-in" or "tweeters-out".

rw

I set them up like the manual shows - Mid panel almost flat but slightly toed in, bass panel and tweeter panel toed in about 30 degrees.
Sort of like this:
tweeter panel .. \
......mid panel .. I
.....bass panel .. \

When you say vee the bass panels and you referring to the bass & mid? I know it was a pain for me but.....Can you draw it?