Gasoline prices: How high will it go?

[Smokey]

On my last trip to gas station, the prices were around $2.50 a gallon. And they say it will be around 3.00 when summer travel season comes around.

Are we destined to be like European where they got used to price of $5 a gallon, and have to live with it. With most people in USA living in the suburb and commuting long distances to go work or do daily choirs, that might be a hard pill to swallow.

[paul_pci]

Paid $2.60 today. Yes, we're spoiled, but the prices are still ridiculous. The typical analogy to Europe is false because they have a superbly competent mass transit system and centralized populations. For someone like me, in LA, mass transit isn't feasible, like it or not. Ridiculous.

[shokhead]

They still have to buy gas in Europe and they have had gas over 3 bucks for years. I dont even pay attention to the price,i just fill up and go. I do feel bad for the truckers.

[PAT.P]

Here in Canada the price goes up and down 79 to 92 a litre during the day and we still need to buy it no matter the price.Opec runs the output around the world in the production ,the producer pocket the profit and spot sells for future production and consumer pay at the pump.At least were not as bad off than Europe.Pat.P

[topspeed]

You should feel lucky Smoke, here in Cali we've been at $2.98 for over a month. Unfortunately, both of my vehicles take premium so we're pretty well screwed. Latest estimates are they will keep climbing through the summer. Our only hope is the newly approved Alaska project will lessen the burden, but we won't see the benefits for quite awhile.

Oh yeah, regardless of what the spin doctors at petroleum producers state on why the prices are so high, they are currently posting record profits and have been every quarter for over 2 years. Coincidence?

The bottom line is that America is completely dependent on gas. As another poster noted, we don't have the infrastructure for mass transit and we're simply too spread out. If you want a classic example of "urban sprawl," go to Tucson. I was there a few weeks ago and it literally took me 45 minutes to get from the airport to my hotel, with no traffic, and I was still in the city! It was completely absurd! They charge the prices they do because we'll pay it...period.

Believe it or not, there are some upsides to the escalating price of gas. We could see a serious acceleration of development of hybrids such as the Lexus RX400h (268hp, 31city/29hwy) or Honda Accord hybrid (255hp, 29city/37hwy). In both cases, these are the most powerful, quickest, yet most fuel efficient variants of each model.

The other advantage is that is could force auto manufacturers to start seriously considering importation of some the wickedly cool cars that Europe enjoys but we don't. I for one would love to see something like the Ford StreetKa make it over the pond.

[shokhead]

If you have any kind of a newer car,you dont have to use premo,your computer will reset for 89 or 87.

[paul_pci]

Topspeed, do you actually believe that Alaska oil drilling BS? The most immediate and plausible technology to reduce oil dependence burdens is to improve the gas efficiency in cars across the board, but there's too much money wrapped up in the whole auto/oil industry, on top of the fact we haven't had a government supporting public consumer interests in long, long time. Let me use a really bad analogy. What if someone could make cocaine that kept somebody high for 5 hours instead of 45minutes? What do you think would happen to the volume of cocaine imported to the U.S.? It would go down dramatically, and you'd have a lot of people from the growers to the processors to the importers to the street dealers who'd be real pissed off. As I indicated, the government isn't interested in promoting the general welfare of the citizenry, as stated in the Constitution, but would rather consolidate their power through pumping money to wealthy oil industry producers, et al. That's what Alaska is about.

[topspeed]

If you have any kind of a newer car,you dont have to use premo,your computer will reset for 89 or 87.

Your computer will retard spark and compensate to deter premature detonation. This doesn't mean it likes it or is good for it. An engine designed to run on 91 octane but forced to use lower octane gas is not only inviting "knock" but may also void your warranty is some situations. This is not to be confused with fact that using higher octane gas in cars designed to run on regular will increase horsepower, because it won't. It just makes your bank account drain faster.

Topspeed, do you actually believe that Alaska oil drilling BS? The most immediate and plausible technology to reduce oil dependence burdens is to improve the gas efficiency in cars across the board, but there's too much money wrapped up in the whole auto/oil industry, on top of the fact we haven't had a government supporting public consumer interests in long, long time...As I indicated, the government isn't interested in promoting the general welfare of the citizenry, as stated in the Constitution, but would rather consolidate their power through pumping money to wealthy oil industry producers, et al

Without getting into a political debate on this, let's just say I don't share your cynism. To wit, the statement about us not having a government supporting public consumer interests is rather hard for me to swallow. How do think our gas prices were so low in the first place? Euro's have been paying frightening rates for their gas for decades, yet it was only until a few years ago that prices rapidly escalated to the point where we are now. The price was artifically held down by our government because the fact of the matter is that Americans love to drive their big trucks and SUV's. I'm not condemning us, in fact I have an SUV as well, I'm just willing to pay the price without blaming our government for it. If you want to point the finger at someone, point it at the market that makes trucks the top three selling vehicles in the US with the F150 selling over twice as many vehicles as the best selling car, the Camry.

[Geoffcin]

Without getting into a political debate on this, let's just say I don't share your cynism. To wit, the statement about us not having a government supporting public consumer interests is rather hard for me to swallow. How do think our gas prices were so low in the first place? Euro's have been paying frightening rates for their gas for decades, yet it was only until a few years ago that prices rapidly escalated to the point where we are now. The price was artifically held down by our government because the fact of the matter is that Americans love to drive their big trucks and SUV's. I'm not condemning us, in fact I have an SUV as well, I'm just willing to pay the price without blaming our government for it. If you want to point the finger at someone, point it at the market that makes trucks the top three selling vehicles in the US with the F150 selling over twice as many vehicles as the best selling car, the Camry.

In Europe gasoline is taxed massively. They use the tax to keep up the excellent mass trasportation system that they use. In France TGV trains regularly go well over 200mph, and you can get nearly anywhere in that country in less than 3 hrs by them. The fastest I've EVER gone on land was on the Eurostar, and that was a cool 300kph (195mph) and the ride was smooth as silk. In England, buses go everywhere, and they are cheap! We've just about abandoned our public trasportation system. I give you the grounding if the Acella train, our fastest as an example, and the near bankruptcy of Amtrac. The last ride I took into NYC on the train was more like a ride at a 6 Flags amusment park.

The real simple facts are that gasoline costs approximatly ~70c a gallon to make; From pumping the oil out of the ground, to refining it, to delivering it to the pump. Anthing more than that is either profit or tax. So, if they are charging you $3 a gallon, and the tax is 50c, then fully $1.80 of every gallon your buying is profit. No wonder the oil companies are reporting record profits!

[Justlisten2]

I said NT!

[Smokey]

Thanks guys for the shared experiences. The way it is going, we might be in it for the long haul. I have read about Europe excellent mass transit system. But can mass transit work here since we are so spread out over long distances.

Euro's have been paying frightening rates for their gas for decades, yet it was only until a few years ago that prices rapidly escalated to the point where we are now. The price was artifically held down by our government because the fact of the matter is that Americans love to drive their big trucks and SUV's.

Another factor that have contributed to recent high oil prices might be that China and India economy have started to consume tremendous amount of energy to feed their growing economy. I also have read a report stating that prices will continue to rise well after 2010, and then it might level off.

So we may have to look forward to few more years of rising oil prices

[shokhead]

Your computer will retard spark and compensate to deter premature detonation. This doesn't mean it likes it or is good for it. An engine designed to run on 91 octane but forced to use lower octane gas is not only inviting "knock" but may also void your warranty is some situations. This is not to be confused with fact that using higher octane gas in cars designed to run on regular will increase horsepower, because it won't. It just makes your bank account drain faster.



Without getting into a political debate on this, let's just say I don't share your cynism. To wit, the statement about us not having a government supporting public consumer interests is rather hard for me to swallow. How do think our gas prices were so low in the first place? Euro's have been paying frightening rates for their gas for decades, yet it was only until a few years ago that prices rapidly escalated to the point where we are now. The price was artifically held down by our government because the fact of the matter is that Americans love to drive their big trucks and SUV's. I'm not condemning us, in fact I have an SUV as well, I'm just willing to pay the price without blaming our government for it. If you want to point the finger at someone, point it at the market that makes trucks the top three selling vehicles in the US with the F150 selling over twice as many vehicles as the best selling car, the Camry.

Wont hurt the car and wont void any warr.

[paul_pci]

Thanks guys for the shared experiences. The way it is going, we might be in it for the long haul. I have read about Europe excellent mass transit system. But can mass transit work here since we are so spread out over long distances.



Another factor that have contributed to recent high oil prices might be that China and India economy have started to consume tremendous amount of energy to feed their growing economy. I also have read a report stating that prices will continue to rise well after 2010, and then it might level off.

So we may have to look forward to few more years of rising oil prices

Mass transit will not be the cure-all here for many people because of their type of work. I used to tutor and I was driving all over the LA area, and there's no way mass transit could replace that. My father's a contractor and has a few trucks, some with trailers to go to the jobs all over CA, AZ, NV, etc. and again, no way to replace that type of work with mass transit. For people who go to one job at one location, once a day, mass transit will work, but our culture and economy are evolving in such a way that more and more people would not benefit from mass transit in their daily lives.

[jeskibuff]

Wont hurt the car and wont void any warr.

Knocking (premature detonation) most certainly is bad for an engine. Just because it sounds like a harmless pinging noise from your vantage point doesn't mean it's not doing any damage.

Mass transit will not be the cure-all here for many people because of their type of work.

Just look at the government-run Amtrak to see how public funds get washed down the drain to support mass transit that not enough people are interested in. Also, Greyhound just announced that they will no longer be serving many podunk towns in the southwest U.S. (Arizona & New Mexico, as I recall). So even private-run mass transit is struggling to find enough takers, although Greyhound probably isn't used much for normal commuting to work.

You really need densely populated cities to take advantage of mass transit. New York City subways, the DC Metro and Chicago's El undoubtedly have enough ridership to maintain profitability and enough coverage to be convenient for most riders. Does anyone know how Miami's system is faring?

[shokhead]

Less octane rating and you computer will adjust and it will not knock and therefore,will not hurt the car. Thats one of the things the computer will do for a car. If unleaded premiun is not available,unleaded regular with an octane rating of at least 87 can be used.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

For the first time in my life I paid $3.01 a gallon. It has been pretty close to this before, but here in the bay area we are used to paying more for gas than anyone in the country. However being the smart forward thinking person that I am(how is that for blowing your own horn!) I bought a Honda Insight Hybrid for a everyday commuter car, so I filled up my tank and it only cost me about $25.00. Since my car gets about 55mpg in the city, that tank of gas will last me about 7-10 days of normal commuting.

I don't think we should be complaining one bit about the price of gas. Americans for years now have purchased gas guzzling SUV's and that has contributed much to how much fuel this country uses. If we want to bring the price of gas down, we have to use less of it. My Insight has more than paid for itself in saving me money on fuel prices. I have decided that I will always have at least one hybrid car(I am ordering another Insight at the end of this year) in my garage. If more people owned them, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

[Duds]

I don't care how much the Euros have been paying for gas, we dont live over there. It's ridiculous for anyone to say we should suck it up and pay this much for gas. Many poeple dont have the funds to go out and purchase a hunk of junk hybrid vehicle either, that's giving in to these riduclous pricess even more.

[kexodusc]

Here in Canada they report the cost of gas as being about 1/3 of the price at the pumps, the rest is taxes...though that's slowly being given back to lower-tiers of government...
I don't mind paying taxes for the well being of a country, but do you guys really think if the taxes were reduced that prices would drop?
Oil prices aren't a funtion of costs, as much as they are the desire to maximize revenues. The cost relation is a poor excuse the oil companies feed the public, and one that we buy.

[topspeed]

Less octane rating and you computer will adjust and it will not knock and therefore,will not hurt the car. Thats one of the things the computer will do for a car. If unleaded premiun is not available,unleaded regular with an octane rating of at least 87 can be used.

You're right, 87 can be used. The question is, should it be used? A computer will adjust to prevent knock, but it can only adjust so far. Pure gas is highly combustible, therefore producers actually add or "dope" the gas to reduce the octane ratings. If you run 87 in a car designed for 91, the computer will compensate as much as possible to deter premature detonation, however you will still have left over doping agents that will form contaminants such as carbon deposits. These deposits then cling to the valves, plugs, etc. Over time, the deposits will have a dramatic effect on the efficiency and performance of your engine. With the correct fuel, the computer is working to optimize spark, air/fuel mixture, etc. to provide optimal performance. With the incorrect fuel, the computer is compensating to make sure the damn thing doesn't detonate. Which sounds better to you?

Think of it this way; everyone knows that the more efficient a speaker is, the better. A 95dB/1w/1m speaker has distinct advantages over a 85dB/1w/1m speaker, not the least of which is that you have far more options with amplifiers and/or it presents a far easier burden for your current amp. So why doesn't every engineer design hi-efficiency speakers? Because the sound is the most important thing. Same thing with engines. It's not like engineers are trying to design engines that run on 91 instead of 87. However, if you're going to squeeze 333hp out of a 3.2L I6, compromises will be made. One of them is that it has to run on 91.

If you want to run 87 on an engine designed for 91, go for it. I'll stick to specs.

[BRANDONH]

On my last trip to gas station, the prices were around $2.50 a gallon. And they say it will be around 3.00 when summer travel season comes around.

Are we destined to be like European where they got used to price of $5 a gallon, and have to live with it. With most people in USA living in the suburb and commuting long distances to go work or do daily choirs, that might be a hard pill to swallow.

I drive a VW Beetle diesel and get 51 to 52 MPG.

http://www.dieselforum.org/news/april_07_2004.html

Considering this, diesel vehicles provide an increasingly attractive option for American drivers. Take a look at the benefits:

* Despite the concurrent rise in diesel fuel prices, diesel vehicles are much more fuel efficient, typically getting 20-40 percent more miles to the gallon than a comparable gasoline car.
* Diesel's efficiency helps reduce dependence on foreign oil. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, a 30 percent market penetration of diesel vehicles by 2020 would reduce U.S. net crude oil imports by 350,000 barrels per day.
* Diesel cars provide superior power and performance to most gasoline cars, an important feature for American drivers.
* Diesels burn less fuel, so they emit much smaller levels of carbon dioxide - a contributor to global warming - compared to gasoline.

[jeskibuff]

do you guys really think if the taxes were reduced that prices would drop?

You betcha! All you have to do to prove this is to drive from one state to the next. When I drive I-95, I try to ensure that when I cross into Georgia my tank is near empty. Just before leaving Georgia, I make sure I tank up. There, the tax per gallon is $.306 according to this chart. Go north into South Carolina and you jump up to $.352, but go south into Florida and you're paying $.48 per gallon! The difference is noticeable at the pumps! Because of competition with Georgia, the prices across the border (into Florida) might be a little cheaper than further into the state, but not by much. It may be cheaper for a Floridian who lives near the border to cross into Georgia when his tank nears empty. Cigarettes are also a good example of taxes affecting price. There's a lot of border crossing into states with low tobacco taxes for such purchases.

Oil prices aren't a funtion of costs, as much as they are the desire to maximize revenues.

Maximize revenues? Who's the big profit-takers here? If in Canada you're paying 2/3rds to the government, I'd say someone's making some nice profit, far more than the oil companies! It's just much more fun and convenient to blame "evil corporations" than your benevolent government though, isn't it?

The cost relation is a poor excuse the oil companies feed the public, and one that we buy.

But you seem to have bought into the "pay us some whopping taxes and you'll get it all back" excuse that your government has given you. European gas has always been much more expensive than U.S. gasoline. Why is that? They're much closer to the major oil suppliers, so it should be cheaper, shouldn't it? Well, once again the governments tax gasoline to death! There's a direct correlation between taxes and cost.

Diesel cars provide superior power and performance to most gasoline cars

I've never driven a diesel vehicle that wasn't a dog as far as performance is concerned. For power and performance, give me gas-powered ANY DAY!

Diesels burn less fuel, so they emit much smaller levels of carbon dioxide

But diesels emit much more particulate matter. They are worse polluters than gas and harder to clean up, from what I understand.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I don't care how much the Euros have been paying for gas, we dont live over there. It's ridiculous for anyone to say we should suck it up and pay this much for gas. Many poeple dont have the funds to go out and purchase a hunk of junk hybrid vehicle either, that's giving in to these riduclous pricess even more.

You don't have a choice but to suck it up and pay. Calling hybrids a hunk of junk does not make the price go down either, it just makes you a part of the problem and not the solution. If you want to keep your attitude, then by all means pop out that fat wallet and continue to throw dead presidents at the gas pump. Keep in mind, the people in New Delhi and Bejing don't care one bit about your *****ing about the price of gas. And some prince in Saudi Arabia isn't going to feel sorry for you and offer you a discount price. Your arrogance has a price, and now you are paying it.

[kexodusc]

Before you get too condescending and offend some people, I'll let you know now that I'm a US citizen working for US Investment Management firm in Canada...When you say "my benevolent government", it's a bit of a stretch (though the boys back home aren't exactly saints)...but I think you are grossly mislead about the tax levels of Canada relative the USA (though the gas tax is pretty high).

That being said...

Maximize revenues? Who's the big profit-takers here? If in Canada you're paying 2/3rds to the government, I'd say someone's making some nice profit, far more than the oil companies! It's just much more fun and convenient to blame "evil corporations" than your benevolent government though, isn't it?

Hey, Government is trying to maximize revenue to provide for it's services too...to the point it doesn't interfere with the economy...Considering the current fiscal shape these Canadians are in relative to W and Greenspan, I'd say they're on to something.

I'm responsible for the Oil and Gas/Pipelines and Utilities sectors for my firm's portfolio...I also concentrate on the use of derivatives by firms we hold positions in...wanna explain to me why the oil companies can lock in or hedge the purchases of oil prices at a fixed level for 3, 6, 9, 18 months into the future and yet claim they're costs are subject to "weekly fluctuations of the price of crude"...that's BS and I think you know it!
Some basic finance for ya: there's two ways to increase your profits (which I'm all for in a competitive market - just don't think Oil is competitive market - and I blame Government for that)you minimize costs, or maximize revenues...they're doing all they can on the cost side like any good business should...when the price of crude goes up (a very small portion of the total cost at the pumps) they're quick to adjust the prices up...why? It's an easy sell - people complain, but what else do they do?

When oil drops they take a bit longer, but they'll lower the price at the pump too - keeps them out of anti-trust suits.

But you seem to have bought into the "pay us some whopping taxes and you'll get it all back" excuse that your government has given you. European gas has always been much more expensive than U.S. gasoline. Why is that? They're much closer to the major oil suppliers, so it should be cheaper, shouldn't it? Well, once again the governments tax gasoline to death! There's a direct correlation between taxes and cost.

Way to state the obvious...a tax by definition is correlated...but clearly you've chosen to accept a false cause-and-effect relationship.

Here's something for you to think about...Canada is a much smaller country in terms of economy and people and yet, here in New Brunswick where gas is on the higher side of the things in Canada, the price per litre is $0.947 CAD...that works out to, wow, $2.98 USD/gallon (give or take a penny). If the Canadian government is cutting 2/3's, we can easily deduce that $1 USD is going to the oil companies...At $2.50 per gallon back home, if we subtract the 0.48/gallon for taxes in some states and we're left with $1.52 in the USA...seems kinda odd don't ya think? With 300 million of us, we can't deliver gas cheaper before taxes than Canada? Hmmm....can't imagine why...

[jeskibuff]

If we want to bring the price of gas down, we have to use less of it.

Exactly. The simple laws of supply and demand apply.

My Insight has more than paid for itself in saving me money on fuel prices.

A bit of an exaggeration, eh, Sir TtT?

By my calculations, if your Honda cost about $20K (let's say you got a deal at $19K, including taxes and fees) and you've been paying an average of $2.30/gallon (not the recent $3), you would have had to put about 454,000 miles on it to pay $19,000 in gasoline costs. But in order to properly figure savings, you'd have to factor in an alternative method of transportation. Say you previously drove a vehicle that got only 20 MPG. It still would take you about 260,000 miles to get a differential in cost equivalent to the purchase price of the Honda. I tried to pick some conservative numbers to accentuate your savings, but still...have you put that many miles on it already?

I have decided that I will always have at least one hybrid car(I am ordering another Insight at the end of this year) in my garage. If more people owned them, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

I'm sure many more people would want them if they weren't so ugly. In my opinion, the tear-drop shaped Honda is particularly unsightly. Still, with the current gas prices the hybrids are selling like hotcakes despite the looks! But beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I bet you just love yours, don't you Sir TtT?

I can see some good things coming out of these high gas prices. First of all, it's nice to see SUV sales declining. I'm not so much opposed to SUVs for their gas guzzling as I am the fact that their drivers are the worst on the road. More than other vehicles, they hog the left lane. They change lanes without looking. Their drivers are usually busy doing everything else but paying attention to the road. If high gas prices get more of these rolling living rooms off the road, it can only be a good thing for the rest of us!

Secondly, I hear talk of pressuring traffic engineers to get signals properly timed so that traffic flows more efficiently. How many times have you waited at a traffic light waiting to make a left turn, the light turns green and only 2 cars make it through before it changes to yellow? There are so many intersections like that. How many times a day do you sit at a red light seeing absolutely NO traffic going in the direction that has the green light? How much gas is wasted sitting at intersections like that, not to mention the wear-and-tear your vehicle gets from the stop-and-go driving? Let's get our roads up to their full potential for moving traffic! Let's get rid of the bottlenecks caused by lower-than-they-should-be speed limits. Stop-and-go driving at 40MPH uses much more gas than does traffic moving over 65MPH, plus it prematurely wears out both your car and the road surface and increases the likelihood of collisions.

Despite the concurrent rise in diesel fuel prices, diesel vehicles are much more fuel efficient, typically getting 20-40 percent more miles to the gallon than a comparable gasoline car.
* Diesel's efficiency helps reduce dependence on foreign oil. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, a 30 percent market penetration of diesel vehicles by 2020 would reduce U.S. net crude oil imports by 350,000 barrels per day.
* Diesel cars provide superior power and performance to most gasoline cars, an important feature for American drivers.
* Diesels burn less fuel, so they emit much smaller levels of carbon dioxide - a contributor to global warming - compared to gasoline.

Some interesting things from http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/0...ne-article.htm

In Europe...about 40% of new cars sold are diesel, amounting to more than five million vehicles each year. The demand for diesel in Europe is fueled by the high cost of gasoline. (Unequal taxation of the two fuels results in diesel costing about one dollar less per gallon in most European countries.)
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Thanks to its higher energy content and its efficient combustion process, diesel performance enables cars to travel at least 30% farther on a gallon of fuel than comparable gasoline models.

The improved efficiency of diesel engines can also help reduce oil consumption. It should be noted, however, that it takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gasoline, so we should really look at how a vehicle does on fuel efficiency in terms of "oil equivalents." Thus, we need to adjust the mileage claims for diesel vehicles downward by about 20% when comparing them to gasoline-powered vehicles.
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Because of their lower per-mile fuel consumption, diesel engines generally release less carbon dioxide---the heat-tapping gas primarily responsible for global warming---from the tailpipe. So that's a check on the good side of the pollution chart. But when it comes to smog-forming pollutants and toxic particulate matter, also known as soot, today's diesels are still a lot dirtier than the average gasoline car.
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All this means that diesel pollution can be deadly, causing premature mortality through cancer or heart and respiratory illnesses. The California Air Resources Board has concluded that diesel soot is responsible for 70% of the state's risk of cancer from airborne toxics. In the population as a whole, studies have shown a 26% increase in mortality in people living in soot-polluted cities.
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diesel fuel's advantages from its higher per-gallon energy content and better performance on greenhouse gases are partially offset by the impact of diesel's fuel-production process.
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Technologies are being developed that can make diesel much cleaner and more fuel-efficient. But those advances have to be compared to continuing advancements in gasoline-powered vehicles.
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there is no mandate to bring back diesel in a big way---gasoline-powered cars, particularly gasoline-electric hybrids, are likely the best way to go.

[jeskibuff]

Before you get too condescending and offend some people, I'll let you know now that I'm a US citizen working for US Investment Management firm in Canada...When you say "my benevolent government", it's a bit of a stretch (though the boys back home aren't exactly saints)...but I think you are grossly mislead about the tax levels of Canada relative the USA (though the gas tax is pretty high).

Hey, you're the one who stated the 2/3 take that Canada takes. The chart I linked to (with data from 2002) shows the average TOTAL (state & federal) tax per gallon as $.42. Back in 2002, I was paying about $1.30/gal for 87 octane. That's less than 1/3 (.32).

Hey, Government is trying to maximize revenue to provide for it's services too...to the point it doesn't interfere with the economy...Considering the current fiscal shape these Canadians are in relative to W and Greenspan, I'd say they're on to something.

Yup, everyone wants a cut of the pie. Unfortunately, government takes what they want whereas you have some competition in the private sector.

wanna explain to me why the oil companies can lock in or hedge the purchases of oil prices at a fixed level for 3, 6, 9, 18 months into the future and yet claim they're costs are subject to "weekly fluctuations of the price of crude"...that's BS and I think you know it!

I have no doubt that people will use every excuse to maximize their profit potential. If there's an underlying reason for a price hike, for sure someone will pad the numbers to their advantage to increase their margins. It only makes sense that the reverse will occur, trimming back a little on their price when they get a big reduction in their costs. It's just human nature...to be expected from people who want to take advantage of their position. It occurs at EVERY level of business though...not just oil. When we get perfect people running things, we'll get perfect correlations between cost and price.

Way to state the obvious...a tax by definition is correlated...but clearly you've chosen to accept a false cause-and-effect relationship.

Hey, you're the one who said earlier: "do you guys really think if the taxes were reduced that prices would drop?" I was just proving to you that YES...the price drops when the tax drops!

here in New Brunswick where gas is on the higher side of the things in Canada, the price per litre is $0.947 CAD...that works out to, wow, $2.98 USD/gallon (give or take a penny). If the Canadian government is cutting 2/3's, we can easily deduce that $1 USD is going to the oil companies...At $2.50 per gallon back home, if we subtract the 0.48/gallon for taxes in some states and we're left with $1.52 in the USA...seems kinda odd don't ya think? With 300 million of us, we can't deliver gas cheaper before taxes than Canada? Hmmm....can't imagine why...

Your whole calculation is dependent on what sounds like hearsay to begin with. Do you have any sources for the 2/3 figure? If that is inaccurate, your whole thesis falls apart. Also consider that the chart I linked to dates back to 2002. While the proportions are probably pretty much intact 3 years later (Florida is still much pricier than Georgia as of my last trip at Christmastime), I imagine state and federal tax levels have probably risen...still nowhere close to 67%!

Now an interesting point concerning the price of gas in New Brunswick, Canuckistan...has it recently skyrocketed as it has here in the states? I mean, if so many people like to blame Bush for gas prices, how do they reconcile the increase in Canadian prices? And doesn't Canada have quite a lot of oil production, especially in Alberta?