Well . . . doggies !!

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  • 04-03-2013, 04:36 PM
    menschenstimme
    Well . . . doggies !!
    I never thought I would see the day. Please tell me if I have been living in a cocoon all my life or what. Besides being assistant organist, I also do considerable volunteer maintenance work at our church and have been doing so in varying degrees for about 30 years. We are in an upper-middle-class very ethnically mixed neighborhood. Fortnunately, there are enough RCs in the vicinity to keep our parish viable.

    I was touching up some paint in the choir loft this afternoon and looked down to see a casually-dressed, well-groomed middle-aged white man walk into the church with his small dog (terrier?) on a leash. He knelt down to pray with his dog next to him. I was stunned and not sure what to do. Then I decided to address the issue, partly out of courtesy to our custodian, because I did not want him to have to deal with it.

    I quietly approached the gentleman and asked his pardon for interrupting his prayers and advised him that we do not allow dogs in the church (except for official assistance dogs). He and I must be from different planets, because I was obviously amazed and appalled that this was even happening, and he was incredulous as well - albeit from a different perspective. I told him that he was welcome to stay all afternoon, but that he must please tie his little dog up outside. Just for the record, it was a beautiful afternoon - about 76 and clear - and he did go ahead and tie up the dog just outside the door where he was praying in a shady spot.

    So, is there something wrong with me or was this man out of bounds?

    I happen to encounter one of our priests a few minutes later and told him what had happened and that it really freaked me out because it all seemed so strange - almost surreal. The priest seemed to take my side - as long as I was objecting only to the dog and not the gentleman himself. The priest also said that he found this rather exceptional.

    Angels and ministers of grace defend us! --Hamlet
  • 04-03-2013, 04:52 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by menschenstimme View Post
    I never thought I would see the day. Please tell me if I have been living in a cocoon all my life or what. Besides being assistant organist, I also do considerable volunteer maintenance work at our church and have been doing so in varying degrees for about 30 years. We are in an upper-middle-class very ethnically mixed neighborhood. Fortnunately, there are enough RCs in the vicinity to keep our parish viable.

    I was touching up some paint in the choir loft this afternoon and looked down to see a casually-dressed, well-groomed middle-aged white man walk into the church with his small dog (terrier?) on a leash. He knelt down to pray with his dog next to him. I was stunned and not sure what to do. Then I decided to address the issue, partly out of courtesy to our custodian, because I did not want him to have to deal with it.

    I quietly approached the gentleman and asked his pardon for interrupting his prayers and advised him that we do not allow dogs in the church (except for official assistance dogs). He and I must be from different planets, because I was obviously amazed and appalled that this was even happening, and he was incredulous as well - albeit from a different perspective. I told him that he was welcome to stay all afternoon, but that he must please tie his little dog up outside. Just for the record, it was a beautiful afternoon - about 76 and clear - and he did go ahead and tie up the dog just outside the door where he was praying in a shady spot.

    So, is there something wrong with me or was this man out of bounds?

    I happen to encounter one of our priests a few minutes later and told him what had happened and that it really freaked me out because it all seemed so strange - almost surreal. The priest seemed to take my side - as long as I was objecting only to the dog and not the gentleman himself. The priest also said that he found this rather exceptional.

    Angels and ministers of grace defend us! --Hamlet



    In my humble opinion you were so incredibly wrong. If you believe in God you should believe in all his creations. That man may have lost his wife and his dog is his only companion. I think you deprived him of the peace one can find in church. My dog is my peace and company. Wow sorry but I am unable to wrap my mind around it mattering if the dog was in church.
  • 04-03-2013, 05:34 PM
    TheHills44060
    menschenstimme I agree with you and JM I respectfully disagree with you. There are countless places where only guide dogs are allowed and frankly a church should be high on the list. Dogs are animals and if some people chose to domesticate them well then that's their business but don't force them on anyone else. If a human can bring an animal into a church then where do you cross the line? How about a ferret, a deer, a bobcat...after all they are "god's creations" too. Animals belong in the wild with as little human intervention as possible. Some may say their animal is part of their family and that may be so to them but that will never make them a human being so rules and regulations cannot be the same.

    This does not mean i dislike animals at all i just think they have places where they belong and places they do not.
  • 04-03-2013, 05:45 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheHills44060 View Post
    menschenstimme I agree with you and JM I respectfully disagree with you. There are countless places where only guide dogs are allowed and frankly a church should be high on the list. Dogs are animals and if some people chose to domesticate them well then that's their business but don't force them on anyone else. If a human can bring an animal into a church then where do you cross the line? How about a ferret, a deer, a bobcat...after all they are "god's creations" too. Animals belong in the wild with as little human intervention as possible. Some may say their animal is part of their family and that may be so to them but that will never make them a human being so rules and regulations cannot be the same.

    This does not mean i dislike animals at all i just think they have places where they belong and places they do not.



    Maintenance was being performed. He did not bring the dog in during a service. Sounds like the church was fairly empty. What if the gentleman was out walking his dog and wanted to stop in and pray. Why do people have to go to extremes in an argument. A bobcat my effing ass.
  • 04-03-2013, 06:00 PM
    TheHills44060
    Not trying to go to extremes. Where would you draw the line? Is there a line? You don't think that as soon as someone sees that a dog can have his run of the place someone is going to try and bring their rabbit, chinchilla, iguana, hamster, etc... into the church too? It will happen and then what you have is a zoo on sunday mornings with the smell to go with it.
  • 04-03-2013, 06:03 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheHills44060 View Post
    Not trying to go to extremes. Where would you draw the line? Is there a line? You don't think that as soon as someone sees that a dog can have his run of the place someone is going to try and bring their rabbit, chinchilla, iguana, hamster, etc... into the church too? It will happen and then what you have is a zoo on sunday mornings with the smell to go with it.

    Are you paying any attention? They were in the church doing maintenance which is normally not done on a Sunday. The man was walking his dog which usually indicates a leash. The dog would not have had the run of the place. An iguana I think you are just wanting to argue.
  • 04-03-2013, 06:27 PM
    TheHills44060
    It's only an argument if you do not consider the others point of view JM. You have to look at the big picture. It doesn't matter what day it was, what kind of animal it was or how long it was inside the church. If by rule a dog isn't allowed in that parish then the gentleman is more than free to go find a church that does. Now would you say that menschenstimme was wrong for doing his job and enforcing that rule because you "cannot wrap your mind around it" ?

    Just things to think about. No reason for two opposing opinions to start an argument. I value your point of view otherwise I would bother posting. It's no different that having different feelings about an amp or speakers.
  • 04-03-2013, 06:39 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheHills44060 View Post
    It's only an argument if you do not consider the others point of view JM. You have to look at the big picture. It doesn't matter what day it was, what kind of animal it was or how long it was inside the church. If by rule a dog isn't allowed in that parish then the gentleman is more than free to go find a church that does. Now would you say that menschenstimme was wrong for doing his job and enforcing that rule because you "cannot wrap your mind around it" ?

    Just things to think about. No reason for two opposing opinions to start an argument. I value your point of view otherwise I would bother posting. It's no different that having different feelings about an amp or speakers.



    I guess I see people in jobs who react to things for no reason other than they perceive themselves as having a little power. I guess I have worked too long with the elderly and understand their loneliness. I immediately saw one of my former clients who after the death of a wife, children moved away and feeling all alone stopped in a church as a quiet place to remember loved ones and friends that have gone on before him. To suggest the dog be tied up outside when the dog could have easily been stolen would have been crueler than the dog having an accident on the church. To be so lonely and have your faithful dog turn up missing, wow what unimaginable pain and loss. I am considering the man's point of view since in this instance it is all that matters. In my religious youth I was taught to do for the least of my brethren and I would have given the man peace and humbly cleaned up after the dog if need be.
  • 04-03-2013, 06:40 PM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by menschenstimme View Post
    ...

    I quietly approached the gentleman and asked his pardon for interrupting his prayers and advised him that we do not allow dogs in the church (except for official assistance dogs). He and I must be from different planets, because I was obviously amazed and appalled that this was even happening, and he was incredulous as well - albeit from a different perspective. I told him that he was welcome to stay all afternoon, but that he must please tie his little dog up outside. Just for the record, it was a beautiful afternoon - about 76 and clear - and he did go ahead and tie up the dog just outside the door where he was praying in a shady spot.

    So, is there something wrong with me or was this man out of bounds?

    I happen to encounter one of our priests a few minutes later and told him what had happened and that it really freaked me out because it all seemed so strange - almost surreal. The priest seemed to take my side - as long as I was objecting only to the dog and not the gentleman himself. The priest also said that he found this rather exceptional.

    Angels and ministers of grace defend us! --Hamlet

    Granted, I would think it's common that churches -- along with many other buildings -- forbid dogs and other pet for hygienic reasons. But on the other hand people have great friendship and love with their pets. So I'm really not quite sure why you were "appalled" or why it seems "surreal" to you.

    I once tried to bring our dog into the airport in the city where I live now to greet my son visiting from a distant city where he was studying and where we had once lived. I knew he would like to see the dog. And I had taken the dog into the airport in that distant city any objections.

    However here the security guard reacted without your grace. He was very indignant that anyone would dare presume to bring a dog into an airport building. Rules are rules but I couldn't his amazement and near belligerence that anyone would even hope to bring a family pet to meet someone at an airport.

    I remember a painting, probably early 17th century of a Calvinist church service, possibly in Switzerland or Holland; (I wish I could find link). Being Presbyterian and being a bit interested in early Protestant practice, I wasn't surprised to see a few oddities of the time, e.g. the gentlemen were wearing their hats in the church during the service -- this was the Reformed Church practice at the time. But what surprised and delighted me was a dog pictured lying in an open area near the front of the church, (the chancel), clearly to no one's dismay.
  • 04-03-2013, 06:48 PM
    JohnMichael
    One of the early teachings I remember was if someone came to you in need and you had excess you should help. The idea was that Jesus might come to earth and present as someone in need. When I was hungry did you feed me? When I was naked did you clothe me? What ever you do for the least of me you do unto me.
  • 04-04-2013, 03:07 AM
    Hyfi
    JohnMichael, I have to agree with you here. Just another reason The Church is losing people in droves. I can understand if this was during regular mass, but still don't totally agree, but this was an Off Time with nobody to bother except for someone who chose to intervene and not just allow the poor guy to pray. If the dog barfed or crapped, it may have been different. If it was a Pony....maybe not quite the right thing. But you said it was a little terrier. Come on!

    There are churches all over the world that do allow pets and some have special Pet Services.

    And again as JohnMichael points out, everything here on earth came from one place AND is a part of that place/thing. How is the Life of an animal less of a life than a human? Same miracle, different shapes and sizes.
  • 04-04-2013, 04:28 AM
    JohnMichael
    We have some local churches that have days for blessing of pets. I have been in a number of very large churches and if the sermon was boring or in a different language I could always enjoy watching birds flying around. A good cat keeps an old church free of mice and rats.

    At the risk of beating a dead horse but for me a person's spiritual/comfort needs outweighs the needs of a building/structure.
  • 04-04-2013, 04:40 AM
    TheHills44060
    In this in this particular church no animals are allowed but you guys want to make all sorts of stipulations/exceptions about what time of day it was, the type of establishment, the type of animal, the phase of the moon and so on. The fact is this church has a rule and menschenstimme did his job by enforcing it. The gentleman needs to find a church that allows pets. Very simple.

    Doesn't matter if it was a church, hospital, restaurant or karaoke bar. In this building pets are prohibited. Don't let religion cloud rational thinking.
  • 04-04-2013, 05:01 AM
    Hyfi
    Stupid rules are to be challenged and changed for the better of all. The church should not be so stringent as again, that is one of their biggest problems.

    I am betting the dog was quieter than some children and cleaner than some of the members by how the OP stated it all.

    Shame on any church for being so rude to anyone just trying to pray for a moment. I'm glad I am not a member of that church.
  • 04-04-2013, 05:11 AM
    JohnMichael
    TheHills I think you need to reread the original post. The church was RC = Roman Catholic and he talked to the priest. He was performing maintenance and since he is an organist Mass was not taking place. The man was dressed appropriately and the dog was a terrier which is not a large dog.

    I was raised Roman Catholic and never saw a no dogs allowed sign on the door. As a matter of fact a service dogs cannot be refused entrance. Yes I know a terrier is not a service dog.

    So please reread the original post and if you need further clarity PM the OP.
  • 04-04-2013, 05:23 AM
    JohnMichael
    Mensch we are a group with strong feelings. Do not let difference of opinions keep you from contributing. We do get into it from time to time. Just one big dysfunctional family.
  • 04-04-2013, 05:47 AM
    Hyfi
    I debated about responding but hey, the OP did ask for input.
  • 04-04-2013, 05:52 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Mensch we are a group with strong feelings. Do not let difference of opinions keep you from contributing. We do get into it from time to time. Just one big dysfunctional family.


    And it's in that spirit that I bring up the question, "What happens when people bring pitbulls to church?"...
  • 04-04-2013, 06:02 AM
    TheHills44060
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    So please reread the original post and if you need further clarity PM the OP.

    Thanks for the suggestion JM. Very constructive comment.

    Ok so what you are saying is that menschenstimme made a mistake and dogs ARE in fact allowed in the church?!?! Don't know how you could possibly know that but you seem to somehow. If that is the case then I totally agree with you.

    Let me ask you this...if dogs are welcome why did the priest not do anything rectify the situation and have the man get the dog?
  • 04-04-2013, 06:11 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    And it's in that spirit that I bring up the question, "What happens when people bring pitbulls to church?"...


    Michael Vick is at the other end of the leash
  • 04-04-2013, 06:18 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    And it's in that spirit that I bring up the question, "What happens when people bring pitbulls to church?"...


    The problem is not the breed but the owner. If dogs are bothersome wait until you see us worship with snakes. Oh and the lamb sacrifice can be a little messy.
  • 04-04-2013, 06:19 AM
    TheHills44060
    Hahaha nice one Hyfi.
  • 04-04-2013, 06:33 AM
    bobsticks
    I'm just playing Devil's Advocate...to an extent..."just sayin'"...

    ...I love animals, poin of fact, there are 4 pf them in my household...that said, until you've been attacked by one the high road is the easy road....
  • 04-04-2013, 06:43 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    I'm just playing Devil's Advocate...to an extent..."just sayin'"...

    ...I love animals, poin of fact, there are 4 pf them in my household...that said, until you've been attacked by one the high road is the easy road....

    Yeah but we still are not talking about a fight trained pit bull, we are talking about a well dressed man with a little dropkicking dog. We obviously would have to let people make an educated and well thought out decision as to what would be inappropriate. But a guy with a tiny dog just wanting to pray for a few minutes should just been ignored.

    He did not go out into the street inviting everyone with a pet to join him, it was an isolated case with no harm intended or delivered.

    All this is exactly why they keep electing Popes that are so friggin old. Because they do not want CHANGE in any fashion and by choosing those that are closed minded and not in touch with reality, they keep up the hard line of My Way or Hell.

    I personally would have tried to pet the pooch, not kick it out and I don' have any pets at this time.
  • 04-04-2013, 06:46 AM
    JohnMichael
    TheHills I said service dogs cannot be denied access and I said as a former member of the RC church that I never knew of a no dogs allowed rule. The priest did not say anything because you do not piss off the volunteers. Did you want the priest to tell him that was a piss poor thing to do? His actions lacked compassion and any messages of love taught to us by Jesus.
  • 04-04-2013, 06:52 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Yeah but we still are not talking about a fight trained pit bull, we are talking about a well dressed man with a little dropkicking dog. We obviously would have to let people make an educated and well thought out decision as to what would be inappropriate. But a guy with a tiny dog just wanting to pray for a few minutes should just been ignored.

    He did not go out into the street inviting everyone with a pet to join him, it was an isolated case with no harm intended or delivered.

    All this is exactly why they keep electing Popes that are so friggin old. Because they do not want CHANGE in any fashion and by choosing those that are closed minded and not in touch with reality, they keep up the hard line of My Way or Hell.

    I personally would have tried to pet the pooch, not kick it out and I don' have any pets at this time.

    But laws are'nt drafted that way...y'know, "laws"...
  • 04-04-2013, 06:58 AM
    ForeverAutumn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    All this is exactly why they keep electing Popes that are so friggin old. Because they do not want CHANGE in any fashion and by choosing those that are closed minded and not in touch with reality, they keep up the hard line of My Way or Hell.

    I hardly think that the Pope has time to care about whether this dog should have been in the church. Let's stick to the discussion at hand, an isolated incident, and not turn this into a discussion about religion. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with this.
  • 04-04-2013, 06:59 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    But laws are'nt drafted that way...y'know, "laws"...

    Wait, are we talking about Laws or Stupid Rules?
  • 04-04-2013, 11:11 AM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    I'm just playing Devil's Advocate...to an extent..."just sayin'"...

    ...I love animals, poin of fact, there are 4 pf them in my household...that said, until you've been attacked by one the high road is the easy road....

    I don't see any connection to the OP's issue. Or are you saying the only reason for that church's pet exclusion policy was to prevent vicious attacks? That I doubt.
  • 04-04-2013, 12:21 PM
    ForeverAutumn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I don't see any connection to the OP's issue. Or are you saying the only reason for that church's pet exclusion policy was to prevent vicious attacks? That I doubt.

    Why don't we ask the OP instead of making all sort of assumptions.

    Menschenstimme, WHY did you ask the dog to leave? Is there an existing rule of no dogs in the church? Were you afraid of an attack or of the dog soiling the church? Were you concerned about allergies (that would be MY reason to exclude an animal from such a place).

    You have asked us to weigh in and have a discussion, but perhaps if we knew the reasons that you were not comfortable with the dog in church then we could have a more reasonable discussion. Cheers!
  • 04-04-2013, 12:37 PM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    Why don't we ask the OP instead of making all sort of assumptions.

    Menschenstimme, WHY did you ask the dog to leave? Is there an existing rule of no dogs in the church? Were you afraid of an attack or of the dog soiling the church? Were you concerned about allergies (that would be MY reason to exclude an animal from such a place).

    You have asked us to weigh in and have a discussion, but perhaps if we knew the reasons that you were not comfortable with the dog in church then we could have a more reasonable discussion. Cheers!

    So far stony silence from the original poster.
  • 04-04-2013, 12:56 PM
    dean_martin
    Reminds me of a story I read a couple months ago so I went and found it. Nobody "deserves" to be in church, but if anyone did, it would be this dog:

    Loyal dog attends mass every day at church where owner's funeral was held | Mail Online


    OK - the dog's name didn't sound like what I remembered so I did a little more checking. Here's the same story but the dog has a proper Italian name (the name I remember):

    German Shepherd Ciccio Attends Italian Church Of Santa Maria Assunta Mass Daily As He Mourns Late Owner Maria Lochi (PICTURES)

    If it's on the internet, then it's gotta be true, even if names are changed to protect the innocent, right?
  • 04-04-2013, 01:33 PM
    menschenstimme
    I would be the first to agree that this is an acceptable breach of etiquette.
  • 04-05-2013, 11:32 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I am so torn on this I feel like two half people. As everyone knows around here, I am a certified dog trainer and behaviorist so dogs for me should be welcomed everywhere except restaurants and grocery stores. Bringing your dog to church services would be a bit strange for me, as it does not seem appropriate. Bringing my dog to weekday prayers is perfectly fine to me as long as the dog is house trained, and is not disruptive. If the church has rules against dogs in the sanctuary, that is one thing. If there are no officially stated rules, or the rules are fuzzy, establish clear rules so everyone knows before they step into the church. This is because some churches embrace dogs(my best friends church does), and I have done lecture and seminars on dogs in churches. One thing I have found out(and this was mostly the elderly and widows) that there dogs are so close to them, they take them everywhere without thinking whether it is appropriate or not. Clear rules allows them to make the decision if they really want to go, or they just cannot leave their dogs. It also prevents surprises and indignation.
  • 04-05-2013, 12:27 PM
    JohnMichael
    Sir T one of the things that struck me was being made to tie the dog outside while the man prayed. If the dog was stolen I do not know how I would feel if I was the person who insisted the dog leave the church. I do know how I would feel if my dog was stolen. I am as protective over my dog as a parent is over a child. I just have trouble wrapping my mind around walking into church when there were no services to sit quietly and pray with your dog at your side.
  • 04-05-2013, 01:27 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Sir T one of the things that struck me was being made to tie the dog outside while the man prayed. If the dog was stolen I do not know how I would feel if I was the person who insisted the dog leave the church. I do know how I would feel if my dog was stolen. I am as protective over my dog as a parent is over a child. I just have trouble wrapping my mind around walking into church when there were no services to sit quietly and pray with your dog at your side.

    This is a major concern for sure. However, I am going to be honest. At my church I would never bring my dogs even to weekday open door private prayer situation. It is just not done there. Then on the other hand, I would have absolutely no problem bringing any of my dogs to my best friends church, they have been there many times for workshops and seminars already. I would not even blink bringing them to weekday prayers because so many members have dogs in his church.

    Since I really started training dogs as of recent, what has blown me away is how different cultures and races view their relationship with their dogs. Some races embrace dogs as a part of the family, others not so much. Some races firmly believe in dog training when they get dogs, others don't believe it is not necessary, and live with their dogs misbehavior. The great thing about this revelation is now I know who to market to when I go into this full time, and I know who not to waste my time with.
  • 04-05-2013, 03:36 PM
    JohnMichael
    I do not know if it is because I spend a lot of time alone and have known many lonely older folks but I find it easy to see where you could be out walking with your dog and want a place of peace. The gentleman may have had no thoughts of going to church until he approached it. I think an unkindness was done to him. Now of course if the dog began to bark or chew on a pew I could understand. Do your work but keep an eye open for any problems. I am not sure why I feel so strongly since I only attend churches for funerals. Hell I think my mom died just to get me back in a church.
  • 04-05-2013, 06:09 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I do not know if it is because I spend a lot of time alone and have known many lonely older folks but I find it easy to see where you could be out walking with your dog and want a place of peace. The gentleman may have had no thoughts of going to church until he approached it. I think an unkindness was done to him. Now of course if the dog began to bark or chew on a pew I could understand. Do your work but keep an eye open for any problems. I am not sure why I feel so strongly since I only attend churches for funerals. Hell I think my mom died just to get me back in a church.

    I am much like you JM. Since the stereo knuckleheads moved out, I do spend a lot of time by myself these days(and trust me, I am okay with it). So my three dogs mean everything to me, and quite frankly I take them everywhere. When I travel between the bay area and Los Angeles, I drive so my dogs can go with me. The only time they don't travel with me is when I go to Orlando for work. When I go wine tasting in Napa, I look for dog friendly wineries(and there are a lot of them). When I go to the hot springs to relax for the weekend, I go to a dog friendly one called Wilbur Hot Springs. I even go to several dog friendly restaurants where they have outdoor spots for dogs. Since dogs are allowed on the studio lot, my Sh!tzu Bohdi often goes to work with me. Since there is always 5-6 dogs in the studio, nobody thinks twice about it.

    I hired three college kids that were interested in being dog trainers to do dog walking for me business(turns out this was rather financially lucrative move). One kid was hired exclusively to walk senior citizens dogs. He says every times he goes to walk them, the client is so concerned about anything happening, they say the same things over and over again. I know how deep the attachment seniors have to their television, and their pets - it is all they have when they get older. I don't necessarily think the man was intentionally wronged, but without clearly stated or posted rules about dogs in the church, and just think you have to use your own judgement. Whether right or wrong(based on whomever's perspective), the OP made a decision and I respect that decision. I would have made a different one based on the fact there was no official rules mention in the OP post. If the dog pissed in the sanctuary, It is at that point I would have asked the man to leave the dog outside, but I would have found a safe place and pointed it out to him. Same with barking and being disruptive. If the dog was sitting next to his owner quietly, I would not have said a thing - but that is me.

    One thing I do realize fully is people have different perspectives about dogs than you and I. While we wouldn't blink an eye about this, others would go into cardiac arrest behind the idea of bringing a dog into a church.
  • 04-05-2013, 07:38 PM
    Smokey
    I think the same two reasons that pets are not allowed on public transporattion (bus) can be applied to churche's public space too:

    1. Being distruptive
    2. Not sanitery
  • 04-06-2013, 01:45 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I think the same two reasons that pets are not allowed on public transporattion (bus) can be applied to churche's public space too:

    1. Being distruptive
    2. Not sanitery


    If you are the only one in there praying how can the dog be disruptive. The dog only disrupted the guy doing maintenance.

    There are a number of people who are not sanitary. Remember this did not happen during a service.