• 03-15-2012, 08:22 AM
    bobsticks
    Someone, somewhere, please help...
    ...me understand this.

    Before'n y'all get up on yer high horses let me make this clear: this is not a query about the viability, legality, or any other aspect of prostitution. What I know about prostitution is that there are some that claim it a victimless crime but obviously there is a sex trade within this country that is rife with violence and oppression. This is not about that.

    This is about judicial process.

    Wtf is going on in Manhattan? After a five year investigation---yes, that's five years of tax payer money being spent on the investigative process---prosecutors have come up with a single D Felony charge against the "Millionare Madam" Anna Gristina.

    How on earth can a judge levy a two million dollar bail on a single D Felony? Where is the ACLU on this?

    Anyone?
  • 03-15-2012, 09:30 AM
    Hyfi
    Can't answer that but another stupid thing happened in Philly yesterday.

    The mayor passed a law stopping people from feeding the homeless outside. Duh, Homeless means you live outside. In these same parks, a family can have a pic nic and eat a sandwich, but they cannot give a sandwich to a homeless person to eat.

    It was stated it was for health ans sanitary reasons but in reality, there is a new Museum set to open next month along the Parkway and they want the homeless that sit there during the day gone.
  • 03-15-2012, 09:50 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    The mayor passed a law stopping people from feeding the homeless outside. Duh, Homeless means you live outside. In these same parks, a family can have a pic nic and eat a sandwich, but they cannot give a sandwich to a homeless person to eat.

    It was stated it was for health ans sanitary reasons but in reality, there is a new Museum set to open next month along the Parkway and they want the homeless that sit there during the day gone.

    Nothing surprises me when it comes to politicians. With the federal government passing 10,000 pages of new laws every month it's clear that things have gotten out of hand.

    But, that said in agreement, I'm really speaking more toward the application of existing law. The absolute worst I've ever heard of for a D Class Felony is one of those Lojack ankle doohickies and a couple thousand in bond.

    Hell, right across the way in New Jersey that character that was accused of killing five teenage boys was released on less than a million dollar bond. That's five A murder charges versus a D promoting charge. There's got to be a political angle to this but ultimately it boils down to th epeople in power in this country abusing that power and our media standing by idly.
  • 03-15-2012, 09:52 AM
    bobsticks
    BTW, it was amazing how few homeless people there were in downtown Indy over the Super Bowl weekend :hand:
  • 03-15-2012, 09:57 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    Nothing surprises me when it comes to politicians. With the federal government passing 10,000 pages of new laws every month it's clear that things have gotten out of hand.

    But, that said in agreement, I'm really speaking more toward the application of existing law. The absolute worst I've ever heard of for a D Class Felony is one of those Lojack ankle doohickies and a couple thousand in bond.

    Hell, right across the way in New Jersey that character that was accused of killing five teenage boys was released on less than a million dollar bond. That's five A murder charges versus a D promoting charge. There's got to be a political angle to this but ultimately it boils down to th epeople in power in this country abusing that power and our media standing by idly.

    You will do more time for cocaine than for murder
  • 03-15-2012, 10:21 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    ...me understand this.

    Before'n y'all get up on yer high horses let me make this clear: this is not a query about the viability, legality, or any other aspect of prostitution. What I know about prostitution is that there are some that claim it a victimless crime but obviously there is a sex trade within this country that is rife with violence and oppression. This is not about that.

    This is about judicial process.

    Wtf is going on in Manhattan? After a five year investigation---yes, that's five years of tax payer money being spent on the investigative process---prosecutors have come up with a single D Felony charge against the "Millionare Madam" Anna Gristina.

    How on earth can a judge levy a two million dollar bail on a single D Felony? Where is the ACLU on this?

    Anyone?


    Sorry cannot help you with that one. You are right the ACLU needs to be involved. What happened to the punishment fitting the crime. I for the record do not think it should be a crime.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:33 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

    Right thought except that nobody has been convicted of a crime despite a five year investigation.

    The defendant claims that she was running a "matchmaking service" which I suppose is walking a thin line as it were, but still legal. The way I know that is that there are fricken television shows about said profession.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:40 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    Right thought except that nobody has been convicted of a crime despite a five year investigation.

    The defendant claims that she was running a "matchmaking service" which I suppose is walking a thin line as it were, but still legal. The way I know that is that there are fricken television shows about said profession.

    More than likely her black book contains too many names of people in higher places that would crash and burn if they actually say what the investigation turned up.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:40 AM
    ForeverAutumn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Can't answer that but another stupid thing happened in Philly yesterday.

    The mayor passed a law stopping people from feeding the homeless outside. Duh, Homeless means you live outside. In these same parks, a family can have a pic nic and eat a sandwich, but they cannot give a sandwich to a homeless person to eat.

    It was stated it was for health ans sanitary reasons but in reality, there is a new Museum set to open next month along the Parkway and they want the homeless that sit there during the day gone.

    Makes me want to buy a truckload of sandwiches, stand in front of Philly's city hall handing them out, and ask everyone to go into city hall to eat them.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:43 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    Makes me want to buy a truckload of sandwiches, stand in front of Philly's city hall handing them out, and ask everyone to go into city hall to eat them.

    I hear ya, really stupid move and he is treating the homeless like ferrel cats.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:47 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Can't answer that but another stupid thing happened in Philly yesterday.

    The mayor passed a law stopping people from feeding the homeless outside. Duh, Homeless means you live outside. In these same parks, a family can have a pic nic and eat a sandwich, but they cannot give a sandwich to a homeless person to eat.

    It was stated it was for health ans sanitary reasons but in reality, there is a new Museum set to open next month along the Parkway and they want the homeless that sit there during the day gone.



    I liked Philidelphia when I have visited the city. Will they have to change their slogan from "City of Brotherly Love"?
  • 03-15-2012, 10:52 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    More than likely her black book contains too many names of people in higher places that would crash and burn if they actually say what the investigation turned up.

    That would be a workable theory except that the authorities are already in possession of both her business partner and the documents associated with the business. Jailing her doesn't prevent her (through her lawyer) making any public statements.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:56 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    That would be a workable theory except that the authorities are already in possession of both her business partner and the documents associated with the business. Jailing her doesn't prevent her (through her lawyer) making any public statements.

    Death threats would.
  • 03-15-2012, 10:58 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I liked Philidelphia when I have visited the city. Will they have to change their slogan from "City of Brotherly Love"?

    Overall, it's a crappy city except for the outskirts and a few tourist locations.

    City of Unwanted Homeless

    The fumiest thing about the Mayor saying it was about sanitary and health concerns is that these poor people are already as unsanitary and health-less as they can be and FOOD would actually help them.
  • 03-15-2012, 11:01 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    Makes me want to buy a truckload of sandwiches, stand in front of Philly's city hall handing them out, and ask everyone to go into city hall to eat them.

    That's a laudable instinct Autumn...there's a few problems though. No doubt there's a statement against eating in or on the property of City Hall. You could be prosecuted.

    Several hundred sandwiches would be impossible to hold. They would require some type of cart or stand or table for which you have no license. You could be prosecuted.

    If you put them on the ground that would violate several health codes. You could be prosecuted.

    Depending on the ingredients of the sandwiches they have to be kept at a constant and controlled temperature. If you were unable to provide documentation of such, you could be cited.

    Should any of the recipients of said sandwiches not be able to provide identification they could be perceived as homeless, placing you in violation of the very code you were protesting.

    Despite there being a right to assemblage in this country, one needs a permit for a gathering or a parade. Got one? Sorry.

    Now granted, these are only misdemeanors but there seems to be several of them with a pattern of escalation--you malcontent. Better tell hubby to sell the drums, 'cause bail could be north of a million bucks or so. Don't worry, the Philly court system isn't that busy. We'll see you in a month or three...
  • 03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
    ForeverAutumn
    That was actually my Plan B. Plan A was to buy a bunch of passes into the new museum and hand out a sandwich and museum pass to the homeless so that they could eat their sandwiches in the museum. But I figured that there's no way the museum is going to allow outside (HA!) food onto the premises.
  • 03-15-2012, 11:33 AM
    bobsticks
    Not a bad plan but you're wise to avoid the obvious pitfalls.

    One of the differences between our two countries is that our prison system is almost exclusively privatized, providing an economic incentive to criminalize our citizenry.

    The U.S. has a higher rate of incarceration of its citizens than Communist Russia and when that rate dips we just adjust the bar for measurement.
  • 03-15-2012, 11:33 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    That was actually my Plan B. Plan A was to buy a bunch of passes into the new museum and hand out a sandwich and museum pass to the homeless so that they could eat their sandwiches in the museum. But I figured that there's no way the museum is going to allow outside (HA!) food onto the premises.



    You could treat them to the incredible Sunday brunch at the Philidelphia Museum Of Art.
  • 03-15-2012, 11:36 AM
    Feanor
    Prostitution like most drugs ought to be legalized and taxed, e.g. as Holland does. Illegal things that are in high demand attract crime ... but that's old news.

    If contraception or abortion were made illegal, they too would attract crime (as they did in the past).
  • 03-15-2012, 11:42 AM
    Feanor
    Well Twinkies don't need refrigeration and I'm sure you could put 200-300 in a large backpack. So get out there and give FA a hand -- two people don't constitute an illegal gathering.
  • 03-15-2012, 12:04 PM
    ForeverAutumn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    You could treat them to the incredible Sunday brunch at the Philidelphia Museum Of Art.

    I'm thinking that I could probably make a few dozen sandwiches for the cost of one brunch. :)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Well Twinkies don't need refrigeration and I'm sure you could put 200-300 in a large backpack. So get out there and give FA a hand -- two people don't constitute an illegal gathering.

    TWINKIES! YES! How is that law worded? Does it specifically say "no food"? Because Twinkies are devoid of anything resembling real food. I think we've found our loophole. Twinkies could save Philadelphia's homeless!
  • 03-15-2012, 12:50 PM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    I'm thinking that I could probably make a few dozen sandwiches for the cost of one brunch. :)



    TWINKIES! YES! How is that law worded? Does it specifically say "no food"? Because Twinkies are devoid of anything resembling real food. I think we've found our loophole. Twinkies could save Philadelphia's homeless!

    But as you said, they are not really food. They wouldn't help them much.
    I like the sandwich idea. Make a few hundred and pull them in on a trailer/cart pulled by a rental car. Then leave the cart with a sign and get yer butt outta there.
  • 03-15-2012, 12:54 PM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Prostitution like most drugs ought to be legalized and taxed, e.g. as Holland does. Illegal things that are in high demand attract crime ... but that's old news.

    If contraception or abortion were made illegal, they too would attract crime (as they did in the past).

    Be that as it may---and I don't necessarily disagree with you---the argument over process is instantly lost when people make statements like that. Of course, in this country, if the headline contains the word "prostitution" every fat, judgemental stay-at-home bible-mom and her henpecked husband scream, "Throw the book at her!!".

    The issue was, and remains, that you can't put unconvicted people in jail for indeterminate amounts of time---and unreasonable bail is de facto just that.

    Do we think she's a flight risk? She's got four school aged children. She's part of a community.

    Is she a danger to the generall public? What's she gonna do, bludgeon someone with a hooker?

    This is akin to the police spending five years wiretapping, reading the emails of and surveilling a nine year old operating a lemonade stand to determine whether or not a valid license is had---and the courts imposing a hundred thousand dollar bail for one citation of failure to obtain.
  • 03-15-2012, 01:25 PM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael View Post
    But as you said, they are not really food. They wouldn't help them much.
    I like the sandwich idea. Make a few hundred and pull them in on a trailer/cart pulled by a rental car. Then leave the cart with a sign and get yer butt outta there.

    Nope. That's a really, really bad idea. Because of it's mobility the cart would fall under the same rules regulating the food trucks one sees in larger cities around the country. The truck/car and the cart would both have to be licensed specifically for that pupose. Further, they have to be inspected with the results posted. Pennsylvania is one of the states that requires documentation posted with a letter grade, so there's another violation.

    Autumn would have to go through a "Food Service Safety" or "Serve Safe" course and the accompanying tests therein.

    Failure to follow these rules could result in additional charges for each and every individual that took a sandwich---which would, of course, be in furtherance multiple counts of large-scale civil disobediance.

    Damn, that's gonna be hella bail and crippling fines. Can the homeless eat cardboard? That's just a littering fine...
  • 03-15-2012, 02:43 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    Nope. That's a really, really bad idea. Because of it's mobility the cart would fall under the same rules regulating the food trucks one sees in larger cities around the country. The truck/car and the cart would both have to be licensed specifically for that pupose. Further, they have to be inspected with the results posted. Pennsylvania is one of the states that requires documentation posted with a letter grade, so there's another violation.

    Autumn would have to go through a "Food Service Safety" or "Serve Safe" course and the accompanying tests therein.

    Failure to follow these rules could result in additional charges for each and every individual that took a sandwich---which would, of course, be in furtherance multiple counts of large-scale civil disobediance.

    Damn, that's gonna be hella bail and crippling fines. Can the homeless eat cardboard? That's just a littering fine...


    Too bad my Serve Safe certification has expired. I could have been her sidekick.