And still this happens.....

[Worf101]

Facts: We have more guns in private hands than any nation in the world and any nation in history.

We have on average 20 mass shootings in America every year.

We have more people in prison than ANY nation on earth....

And still we aren't "safe".

I'm vet, I own guns, I believe in self defense. I'm not King, Ghandi or Jesus Christ... that being said, when some right-wing gun nut says in the next 24 hours (and believe me they will if they haven't already) that this could've been lessened or prevented IF MORE PEOPLE WERE ARMED my head's going to explode. Given the above facts, does any rational or sane person think that MORE weapons will help stem this bloody tide of mass-murder? I don't.

Worf

[thekid]

In this country we can't seem to figure out how to differentiate between guns used for sport/hunting and guns designed with the basic purpose of killing people and often times lots of people......... Worf Site says I can't give you any greenies or I would for your post.

[LeRoy]

Ya, I own one firearm for home defense and while I used to (mid-90's) legally conceal carry in my home state of Texas I was always of the mindset of where can I go and carry because I have a right to survive etc....that was not a healthy state of mind for me to be in..always at the ready to be ready for action. I simply own one with the hope I will never ever have to use it on anyone-ever.

A few years ago the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment allows for citizens to own firearms separately from purposes of militia. Now, I never went to law school but in reading the 2nd amendment I would never come to the conclusion that Scalia did in review of the citizens right to bear arms.

Personally, I would be greatly in favor of restricting/prohibiting the manufacturing and sale of most handguns and all assault style weapons (long guns/shotguns/handguns) that the general public has access to now.

From my perspective of self-defense, I would be okay with handgun self defense firearms options: 22 cal, 22 WMR, .380 cal, .38 Cal, and .45 Cal. I would like to see all other handgun calibers that I have not listed simply not allowed for purchase by the general public.

I am not a hunter so I really don't know how much long gun is enough for hunting deer. However, I don't think an AK-47 or AR-15 or Mini-14 and similar type weapons are really designed for hunting anything other than people. I'd really like to see these weapons abolished forever from the hands of the general public.

Here is what really gets me....where is the voice of the police departments from around the nation with regard to firearms reduction/gun control? Why are P.D. silent on this topic?

[Mr Peabody]

The sad thing is not only are guns available that no one in their right mind would hunt with but you can buy one with out any background check in most places. You would think even the NRA would be in favor of guns being out of the hands of those who are known to be mentally unstable or already have a criminal record. You know some idiot is going to say, "if the teachers were armed". We all know from history no one wins in an arms race. We have had several recent high profile mass killings yet no one acts, not even to strengthen the laws that address the purchase of guns. In the old west most every one carried a gun, as society progressed that was done away with, it's interesting after all these years instead of continuing to progress society wants to regress back to every one toting a gun. When you see some of the stuff out on the internet from political parties having detaining camps of those who oppose to Obama going to declare martial law etc. it's scary to think those feeble enough to believe and/or create this stuff might have a gun.

I will never understand what makes some one want to take their anger out on innocent lives and to do so on children who haven't even had a chance to live is tradgic beyond what I can describe.

[winston]

after reading this clip, and browsing the site, all that I can say is "it makes me (Angry) to ask this question, why isn't politicians taking care of all these things that causes us so much pain!!?? A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

there's a map in this link, that also gives us a wake up call on the mass murders and spree killings that happens in this country,

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The problem in this country is that we have so many issues, and tug of wars, most folks just cannot get their collective heads around all of the problems. We are ignorant about the motives of certain special interest and political groups, and blindly believe their marketing angles. The NRA has always used the 2nd amendment as a ruse to support the gun lobby and sales. That is their job. They have resisted any attempt to regulate guns in any sane way. Here is what I say - maybe we cannot touch guns, but we can touch the bullets they require to work. Maybe we can place limits to their access without touching the right to own the gun.

We must start somewhere here. My confusion is how can you be pro-life, and still support a policy of no gun control, and all access? Money, money, MONEY.

Personally I think politicians are more about the money than they are about the people they supposedly sent to represent. That goes for both sides of the political divide. And we Americans are complicit in this for not paying attention, not acting, and not holding the bums to our representation.

[Smokey]

They have resisted any attempt to regulate guns in any sane way. Here is what I say - maybe we cannot touch guns, but we can touch the bullets they require to work. Maybe we can place limits to their access without touching the right to own the gun.

That is briiliant

[ForeverAutumn]

As a Canadian, this whole gun control issue just boggles my mind. We have very strict laws regarding gun possession here. I don't know of anyplace that even sells guns, outside of sporting goods stores that specialize in hunting weapons.

Here's my take. First of all I don't agree with this "right to bare arms" bull****. Sure, there are people who feel the need to carry a gun for protection and, of course, those who hunt. So, maybe there is a need to be able to purchase a hand gun or a rifle. But NOBODY has a personal need for a semi-automatic weapon.

Frankly, legal or not, if someone wants a gun, they'll find a gun. We have our fair share of shootings here too. Even with strict gun laws, we are far from immune (although I think that the majority of our shootings are gang related and involve hand guns). But, if the news is to be believed, this killer's mother legally owned semi-automatic weapons. LEGALLY. That blows my mind.

[Feanor]

.... Here is what I say - maybe we cannot touch guns, but we can touch the bullets they require to work. Maybe we can place limits to their access without touching the right to own the gun. ....

Aggh ... can't resist comment ...

You won't have any better luck restricting ammo sales than gun sales. And if you could it wouldn't be effective. For every gun there is likely already a thousand rounds of ammo extent somewhere for it. I probably have 400-500 rounds right now for my Mini-14 -- more than adequate to perpetrate the likes of the Connecticut massacre. Hand-loading further complicates the issue.

Seems to me that the USA has two, complementary problems. First, a "gun culture" where people feel they need and have a right to a gun for "personal protection" or any other purpose that occurs to them. Secondly, far too many guns, especially lethal quasi-military types that have no real application for hunting or target shooting.

IMO the Second Amendment was never intended to entitle everybody to have a gun for "personal protection"; it was intended for the protection of the state, specifically against British invasion back then in 1792. The assumption was that a "well regulated", i.e. state-organized militia could be more easily raised against a foreign threat if citizens could provide their own firearm.

[ForeverAutumn]

Please read this article. It's a first hand account of a mother living with a mentally ill son. While access to guns is certaily a big part of the issue. This article illustrates how it's only a symptom of a larger problem...mental illness.

The article is a bit long to post the whole thing here, so I'm just posting the link. It's worth reading.

I Am Adam Lanza's Mother

[Hyfi]

Pretty tired of the issue being directed at Gun Ownership. 99.9% of gun owners are on the up and up and are not mentally ill. The problems of our society are more related to the declining family unit. Every time I hear these and similar stories, my first question is "Where is the father?"

The mother in this case should never have allowed the mental kid to touch her guns.

Violent video games where reset brings everyone back to life desensitized people from the realities of death and violence.

Hollywood pumps out movie after movie of senseless violence, murder and mayhem which only desensitizes people.

The news agencies give us around the clock coverage and keep showing and saying the same stuff which just gives whackos something to top.

We all know the names of these sickos but not one name of the victims. The guy who did the Movie Theater killings should have just had a bullet to the head when he was apprehended. There is no rehabilitation for these people and we should not waste tax money on keeping them alive and well fed. Same should go for any other that does not take their own life.

We should not make people get a license to get married, we should make them get a license to pro-create.
We also should make it a bit harder to get divorced. Too many people get married with the thought of "oh well, if it doesn't work, we get divorced" Thats just great because it just creates more of the same single parent problems of neglect and proper guidance from both parents.

This is not a Gun problem, it's a People problem. If guns were not available, these idiots would kill people with something else.

I am a gun owner and have a permit to carry. the only rifle I own is a BB-Pellet gun but my handguns range from .25, .380, .40. .357. I rarely do carry...very rarely but it's my right and I am glad it is. I just recently found out, that anywhere outside of the city of Philly, I can carry in the open. If enough people carried in the open, the criminals would have to think twice about their actions. There are places in the US where this has curbed crime to a point.

All that said, it is a sad time in our history and that we have so many mentally unstable children without a proper family unit or help when needed.

[Feanor]

Please read this article. It's a first hand account of a mother living with a mentally ill son. While access to guns is certaily a big part of the issue. This article illustrates how it's only a symptom of a larger problem...mental illness.

The article is a bit long to post the whole thing here, so I'm just posting the link. It's worth reading.

I Am Adam Lanza's Mother

That was a great article that illustrates fundamental issue around mental illness. The issue with the availability of guns in the USA is that facilitates the mentally lashing out in a particularly lethal way.

That said, you have a much better chance of being killed by lightning strike than you do by a deranged mass killer.

[E-Stat]

They {NRA} have resisted any attempt to regulate guns in any sane way.

Would you care to provide a specific example?

My confusion is how can you be pro-life, and still support a policy of no gun control, and all access?

My confusion is to exactly who you refer who wants "no gun control". Who wants to dismantle the collection of federal laws of the Gun Control Act found in this 242 page document ?

[LeRoy]

Winston, thanks for the Mother Jones link. The shooting at McD's back in 84 and the day trader shootings in Atlanta in 99 really got me sick during their time of when those events happened. I am sick again with the theater shooting and now with the slaughter in Newtown.

A part of me feels kinda guilty due to my apathy over the years on the topic of gun control. After the Aurora,CO shootings I did sign the petition at the Brady Handgun Control Center. Now, I plan to actually write out my idea of what gun and ammo control legislation should look like and mail it in. I doubt that any or little of what I plan to write will actually be considered but at least I will be attempting to engage in the process rather than doing nothing as I have in the past.

Thanks again for the link, very helpful.

[Hyfi]

NRA responds

NRA Responds To Sandy Hook Massacre

And here is an interesting part of the page..

""It wasn't immediately clear what meaningful contributions the NRA plans.

But there may be some clues in the group's responses to prior mass shootings. In early 2011, following the mass shooting in Tucson, Ariz., that nearly killed former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre said the debate about how to prevent future gun massacres should focus on preventing the mentally ill from acquiring weapons.

“It shouldn’t be a dialogue about guns; it really should be a dialogue about dangerous people,” LaPierre told The New York Times.
""

Ever wonder why you really don't hear much from Gabby? She happens to carry the same model Glock that she was shot with. She does not want that right taken away from herself.


What I have noticed in discussions here and elsewhere, those who quickly jump on the more control bandwagon overlook is that the majority of these kinds of crimes are not committed by the legally registered owner of the gun. Most killers don't jump thru hoops and waiting periods if they want to go off on society, they steal one...buy a stolen one or any other means and get the job done now while they are still snapping. Yes, there are some who go the extra mile.

[ForeverAutumn]

those who quickly jump on the more control bandwagon overlook is that the majority of these kinds of crimes are not committed by the legally registered owner of the gun. Most killers don't jump thru hoops and waiting periods if they want to go off on society, they steal one...buy a stolen one or any other means and get the job done now while they are still snapping.

And exactly where do you think those stolen guns come from?

Hyfi, I don't blame the gun owners. Well, I don't blame the responsible gun owners. But I do think that there are too many guns available. Do you think that the victim of a violent crime or their family cares whether it was the gun owner who fired the bullet? The US has relatively easy access to weapons and a very high crime rate. I don't think that's just a coincidence.

Frankly, if the US doesn't want to make changes to gun laws, that's their business. Just make sure to keep your guns and your gun related violence in your own country. Unfortunately, many of those stolen guns make it over the border and affect others.

[Feanor]

There is something circular in the argument that people must have the right to own & carry guns to protect themselves from others own guns because they have the right to do so, and might misuse them.

It's not my definition of a civil society when civilians have to arm themselves against their fellow citizens -- even in the Wild West sheriffs would often insist that all guns be checked at the town limits.

It seems that 40% of US guns sales legally happen without any background checks. Apparently checks aren't required for online and gun show sales -- yet gun nuts insist they need to do something about crazy people, not guns.

Some gun restrictions that would helpful:

• Require a thorough background check for all gun buyers -- better yet, require licencing of all gun owners
• As above for ammo purchases
• Prohibit semi-auto rifles with detachable magzines or a capacity of over 5 rounds
• Prohibit handguns of over 6 round capacity
• Institute government programs to purchase guns at fair market value
• Combined with the above, offer a temporary amnesty on illegal guns turned in
• And/or confiscate existing prohibited guns and magazines, compensating owners at fair market value; (as was done in Australia).

[ForeverAutumn]

I just read an article that stated some of the profits that gun manufacturers earn. Now it's making more sense. Firearms are a $32 billion industry. Guns are big money.

[E-Stat]

It seems that 40% of US guns sales legally happen without any background checks. Apparently checks aren't required for online and gun show sales -- yet gun nuts insist they need to do something about crazy people, not guns.

Sorry, but that is a ludicrous assertion. Where on earth did you get that figure?

Let's examine your speculation using facts. Last year, there were 16.5 million gun checks according to the FBI. And that number does not include those who purchase guns who remain "pre-checked" (possessing a current carry license having been finger printed and checked). So, if your number were correct, that suggests that 11 million guns were sold casually at gun shows. That works out to over 30,000 each and every day! No, you cannot purchase firearms online unless you have a Federal Firearms License.

[Hyfi]

Some gun restrictions that would helpful:

• Require a thorough background check for all gun buyers -- better yet, require licencing of all gun owners
• As above for ammo purchases
• Prohibit semi-auto rifles with detachable magzines or a capacity of over 5 rounds
• Prohibit handguns of over 6 round capacity
• Institute government programs to purchase guns at fair market value
• Combined with the above, offer a temporary amnesty on illegal guns turned in
• And/or confiscate existing prohibited guns and magazines, compensating owners at fair market value; (as was done in Australia).

I agree with most of these points above but the one thing I am not hearing from anywhere is Education. You surely cannot go back in time but how about for every new gun purchase while waiting for background check, the individual is required to take a Gun Safety Class as well as learn how to properly use and care for the weapon they are purchasing?

If they reduce all capacity to only 6 rounds, how will Hollywood show all it's senseless killing where all the guns have endless rounds between magazine swaps?

I did hear this morning that someone finally wants to see if Violent Video Games cause violence.