A perspective

[mystic]

As many readers may know, the numbers of Americans killed by terrorists and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are minuscule compared to the numbers killed in motor vehicles. The extent of the difference, however, may not be common knowledge. About 3,00 persons died as a result of the 9/11 attacks and about 2,000 soldiers have died in the wars. Compared to the 5,000 fatalities from these causes, an estimated 200,000 Americans(based on NHST data) have been killed in motor vehicle accidents since 9/11.

Even cell phone use may be killing more Americans than terrorists and the wars. The Harvard Center for Risk Analysis has linked cell phone use while driving to 6 percent of motor vehicle accidents. Assuming 6 percent of the 200,000 fatalities were cell phone related, an estimated 12,000 deaths could be attributed to cell phone use since 9/11.

Of course the number of deaths from terrorists using weapons of mass destruction is potentially greater than motor vehicle fatalities. The idea of those weapons in the hands of suicide bombers is terrifying! The fear of future terrorism is understandable. For the time being, however, it may be more rational to fear vehicles and their drivers.

[trollgirl]

...cancer. Those things may kill, over the long haul, a whole lot of people. They also make a car wreck four times more likely if you talk & drive.

Laz

[topspeed]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why it isn't illegal to talk on a phone while driving in all 50 states! This is a pet peeve of mine and it drives me freakin' nutz! I know some states have enacted laws stating that cell phone use must via a hands free device, either ear bud or speakerphone. I am all for this as I take driving damn seriously.

[kexodusc]

Interesting thread...we could chalk up alcohol, firearms, and cigarettes as killing more people each year than terrorism and wars too. I don't think it's a coincidence that the killers that generate billions of dollars each year in tax revenue receive less priority than the ones that cost billions of dollars each year. But it's much easier to fight a war somewhere else than to try to take away our smokes, booze, and guns.

The cellphone thing is a no-brainer. Although personally I've never understood why talking on a phone distracts a driver so much more than talking to a passenger in the car, I don't think many would disagree that there's potential for saving lives, reducing accidents, etc by implementing stricter rules.

[Swerd]

Although personally I've never understood why talking on a phone distracts a driver so much more than talking to a passenger in the car...

Think of it this way, a passenger sitting next to the driver in the car sees the same changing road conditions that the driver sees, and must react to. If something comes up that requires the driver's immediate attention causing a pause in the conversation, the passenger will see it too, and should understand without explanation.

Someone on the other end of a phone conversation is unaware of that. Too many of us allow phone calls to dominate over any other circumstanses we find ourselves in. We lack a socially accepted convention that allows us to say I'm too busy right now to pay attention to your phone call - don't take it personally.

[kexodusc]

Nothing taken personally...I've just always found it odd that we humans can do amazing things, but having the discipline to talk on a phone in the same safe fashion you would a passenger isn't one of them...odd.

I use my cell's speakerphone capability when in the car the odd time a month I do get a call. Both hands free for driving and eyes on the road. I constantly finding myself missing parts of the conversation or pausing before replying while I focus on driving. In this case, my driving isn't any worse than it would be if I was talking to someone in a vehicle. I suspect it's the same for many others.

While I do recognize that a some people are dangerous with a cell-phone in one hand, and the steering wheel in the other, I'm not sure a zero-tolerance-while-driving rule is necessary.
I'm sure we can be more creative and figure out a better solution..

[Swerd]

We're really getting off topic for this thread. Yes there are many things more dangerous than terrorist attack. But I've always found the subject of people and telephones fascinating. In the early 70s I spent 4 years without a phone when I was in the Navy. I suffered no harm at all. I believe I benefitted from the chance to experience life without some of the so-called conveniences that we have. I could say the same for TV, but that's for another time.

After returning to civilian life, I was surprised at how many people let telephones rule their lives. I guess that the 4 years I spent without phones allowed me to realize how few phone calls are about truly important matters. The easy availability of cell phones has only allowed phones to further intrude in peoples' lives. They even allow people to forget any safe driving habits they may have had. For reasons I can't understand, people believe that a phone call must always have first priority.

As far as the debate between driving with hands-free phones or normal cell phones, I think that what goes on between the ears is much more important than what the hands are doing.

[FLZapped]

The cellphone thing is a no-brainer. Although personally I've never understood why talking on a phone distracts a driver so much more than talking to a passenger in the car

Or ....
Shaving
Putting on make-up
Combing hair
Reading (books, newspaper)
Grading School Papers
Reviewing legal briefs
Paying attention to the kid in the car seat(instead of where the car is going)

I have seen all these things and more in my commute to and from work over the years.

Some people are capable of driving and talking on a celphone without any problem....there are also people on the road who shouldn't be even when they devote their entire attention to it!

-Bruce

[Resident Loser]

...I can't understand the whole 'phone thing at all and not just cell phones...What in tarnation is deal?...I have one lousy phone with absolutely no features. It rings, I answer...although most folks seem to think everybody has a phone grafted onto 'em by the number of rings they'll spring for...'phone rings maybe four or five times and by the time I say "hello" it's a click or dial tone...Sorry folks, call me and I'll get there...eventually.

Cells are a whole 'nother thing...what in blazes requires nearly anyone to be in constant communication with anyone else. I'll obviously make exceptions for emergencies, otherwise WTF?

"Hi, I'm on the bus I'll be home in 10 minutes"...So THIS is somehow momentus news? You'll be there in 10 minutes big friggin' deal!!! Or in the supermarket " Oh, they're out of kumquats, should I buy a sheep's bladder? Come on, make a decision...you need a phone for this, you moron?

Bein' a captive audience while in the can is another fave...particularly if the ego-centric A-hole in the next stall is usin' the good ol' walkie-talkie feature...not only are you subjected to the dimwit on the phone while he's takin' a dump, but you get to hear the other twit who thinks it's all just business as usual...

And then of course, the restaurant...Is there anything more annoying than hearin' a cheesy version of Beethoven's 5th while the rocket scientist gropes around looking for the blasted thing...and it's rarely anything important...Just once I'd like to hear "Mr. Bigglesworth has gone into cardiac arrest, I've got to go"...now,that's OK. For the most part, the conversation is just loud enough to be annoying save for a few key words, usually ephasized by a distinct increase in volume"...vacation in Europe..." or "...picking up the beamer..." things of that nature.

Using a cell phone while driving should result in summary execution. Most of these creatures can barely drive to begin with, now you put one hand out-of-commision and most of the brain conversing about that sheep's bladder, you have a lethal weapon. I'm sorry folks, controlling two or three tons of rolling steel is something that requires your utmost attention...if you don't think it does, you shouldn't be driving...It's not a right, it's a privilege.

jimHJJ(...anyone care to discuss rolling stops, "space-cushions" or lane changes unencumbered by proper signaling...I'm just in the mood...)

[Swerd]

I'm with you on this. I don't understand why people want to take their phones with them where ever they go. I've always thought the best new feature on a phone was the inclusion of an ON/OFF switch.

Have you considered getting a cell phone jammer? Just google this term and see the numerous sellers of this unauthorized device. I understand that hotels, restaurants, theaters, and churches use them despite the laws. Unfortunately hotels block cell phones so they can charge customers to use the in-room phones.

Think of the joy of jamming the cell phone of the guy tailgaiting you in traffic while yapping on the phone.

[Duds]

I've made it this far without one, why should I need one now? I dont want people constantly calling me when i'm someplace i dont want to be located anyway. Granted I can turn the phone off, but that seems like I'd be wasting money.

I laugh at the people who say "I'm just going to get one for emergencies" and they end up constantly on the damn thing. I always say to those people, "Everyone has a cell phone now, if you are in an emergency in your car, i guarantee someone will stop and have a cell phone to make a call on."

I'm with you on this. I don't understand why people want to take their phones with them where ever they go. I've always thought the best new feature on a phone was the inclusion of an ON/OFF switch.

Have you considered getting a cell phone jammer? Just google this term and see the numerous sellers of this unauthorized device. I understand that hotels, restaurants, theaters, and churches use them despite the laws. Unfortunately hotels block cell phones so they can charge customers to use the in-room phones.

Think of the joy of jamming the cell phone of the guy tailgaiting you in traffic while yapping on the phone.

[kexodusc]

After some more reading, especially Dean's post, I've got to say, you guys are presenting a good argument and swaying my vote towards banning these things in cars altogether. Looking back, before 1996 or so, we did a terrific job of driving for 60 odd years without them.

Enforcement is hard, just like drunk driving, but maybe brutal fines and penalties will act as a deterrent? I dunno, I'm not a law maker.

My only concern is that there'd remain an exception clause for legitimate emergency use.

Now, if we could just ban public smoking too

[MomurdA]

I have a cell phone given to me by my employer. I use it max 20 minutes a day cept when the old lady is chatty. I dont have a regular phone. I only use cellphone when people call about work, or after 9 when its free for me to use. When i do get a call while drving, 90% of the time i dont pick up. Other times i use the speaker phone. I think the distraction comes from having the damn thing pressed against your head. While its sitting on my lap, I can converse no problem. Of course sometimes i dont say anything for awhile and the ppl on other end get annoyed, but thats cuz im driving! IMO, nothing should be banned. Ever. Just ticket those ppl who drive dangerously on, or off of their cell phones. I dont mean 35 dollar pocket change tickets either.

[Resident Loser]

Have you considered getting a cell phone jammer?

...but with my luck, I'm the one who'd get busted...

Here's an added problem: cell phones seem to be the method of choice in triggering terrorist devices...so NYC, killed the transponders in the Hudson river tunnels. Now, in it's infinite wisdom(and despite the recent London atrocity) they have re-activated it...go figure!!!

The call quality sucks with a capital suck compared to a land line...and unlike regular POTS lines, the secrecy of communications simply doesn't exist...it's easier to eavesdrop on cell calls than it is to hard-wire a tap on a plain old telephone.

But, like everything else it's M-O-N-E-Y...other than the central office facilities and the cell sites there is simply no real expense; simply revenue...no poles, no cable failures, no squirrels chewin' on your drop and no crews to install or maintain the outside plant...and of course people, the blinkered sheep that they are, love it...can't live without it...and should you happen to complain about the real sh!tbird behavior you are subjected to...well, like everything else that lowers the bar, it's YOU, you're the problem...

jimHJJ(...I'd like to get the guys who invented them and those infernal beep,beep...blat, blat..honk, honk car alarms and put 'em up against a wall and...)

[mystic]

I want to thank all the members who participated in this discussion. Both driving and cell phone use bring out rude and inconsiderate behavior in people, and combining the two has caused more deaths, injuries, and destruction on the roadways. But these are costs a large part of the public seems willing to accept for the convience of talking on the phone while driving. Hopefully, laws and/or other solutions will lessen the harm. After reading the article in the following link, however, I am not sure headsets will help:http://www.drivenowchatlater.com/


Turning to the subject of traffic fatalities in general, the public has long accepted the loss of lives from driving as a "cost of doing business." So far our losses from terrorism have been minuscule in comparison. Terrorism is not likely to go away. Will deaths and injuries from terrorism eventually be accepted as a cost of doing business?