• 09-28-2009, 07:16 PM
    JSE
    An Oldie, But Goodie....Discuss!
    Found this again recently,


    'I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.'

    1) 'The US will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good 'ole' boys', we will never 'interfere' again.

    2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East , and thePhilippines . They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

    3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

    4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

    5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a 'D' and it's back home baby.

    6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while

    7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

    If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere..' They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army.. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

    9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

    10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us 'Ugly Americans' any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH..learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

    'The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' '
  • 09-28-2009, 07:40 PM
    markw
    I'd vote for the person who ran on that platform.
    ...even though it wasn't Robin Williams who said that.
  • 09-28-2009, 07:49 PM
    JSE
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markw
    ...even though it wasn't Robin Williams who said that.


    Eh, I thought it was Williams.

    Irregardless (for you Rich & FA :ihih: ) of who said, I bet a lot of Americans would vote for a Candidate on such a platform.

    We can only hope.

    JSE
  • 09-29-2009, 07:02 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markw
    ...even though it wasn't Robin Williams who said that.

    I think it was pixel(Dumbass).

    Nevertheless,

    I'm sure the anti-Americans here will be along soon enough to turn this thread into another flame-fest. :rolleyes:

    Where's my popcorn?
  • 09-29-2009, 09:11 AM
    GMichael
    Buwahahahahahahahahaaaaa......
  • 09-29-2009, 09:13 AM
    3LB
    Hey, all I've ever said about any of the subjects is, "what's the plan?"

    Sooner or later we all have to pick a side...right or wrong.

    Hopefully this plan isn't too retro, cuz I don't think a lot of us speak the native tongues.
  • 09-29-2009, 11:26 AM
    Feanor
    Actually I think there is a lot of good stuff here.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSE
    Found this again recently
    ...

    3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.
    ...

    I won't give the illegals 90 days, though.
  • 09-29-2009, 12:23 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSE
    Found this again recently,


    'I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.'

    1) 'The US will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good 'ole' boys', we will never 'interfere' again.

    I would not apologize, but will promise to not interfere in the future. That does not go for Canada and Britian who I believe are true friends. I would include Mexico as well as it too close to just let it go to hell.

    Quote:

    2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East , and thePhilippines . They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
    I am all for this. I believe this will show some governments in the Middle East hand. They blame us for all of their problems, if we are not there, who will they blame next? This puts alot of pressure on these governments to actually provide education and health services, or risk a revolt from their own people.

    Quote:

    3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.
    This is going to be a huge problem. Who will do the landscaping? Not Americans. Who will buss the dishes when you go out to eat? Not Americans. Who is going to clean the houses and baby sit the children of the rich? Sure ain't goin to be Americans. Who will pick veggies and fruits, be a cheap labor supply for construction contractors? Who will clean the rooms at hotels? Sho ain't no American gonna do it. On paper this sounds good, but the reality is, American business would either shut down, or have to charge an arm and a leg for things we take for granted as being relatively affordable.

    Quote:

    4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
    That last sentence is a little racist to me, but I agree with the basic principle. Cannot agree with the lack of Asylum though.

    Quote:

    5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a 'D' and it's back home baby.
    I would not say no foreign students. But I would say that if they don't keep up their grades, home they go.

    Quote:

    6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while
    I do not advocate more drilling as it just delays us getting off of oil. I would recommend an effort like we had when we went to the moon to get more alternative fuels and cars that run on them to the market. It is hard to walk forward while looking backwards. Oil is looking backwards. I want to see more hybrids and electrical vehicles. For the amount of money we spend on drilling, we could set up a network of charging station all over this country.

    Quote:

    7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
    I am for anything that screws Saudi Arabia. They have been a enemy dressed like a friend for too long. After watching a 20/20 special on American women married to these "men", being hijacked on vacation and stuck in a country where they have no rights, I do not want them to get another dime of my money.

    Quote:

    If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere..' They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army.. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
    I would narrow this down to countries with communist or dictator leanings. Much of the goodwill we have in the world comes from our generosity, I would not want to endanger that goodwill...it is all we have left these days.

    Quote:

    9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
    I am for this. I am tired of seeing my city on lockdown everytime they have a large gathering. Besides, the building would make an excellent condo conversion. I would definately buy in to that!

    Quote:

    10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us 'Ugly Americans' any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH..learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?
    I do not need charm or beauty school. But I do agree that EVERYONE should learn english, but they also need to learn a second language if they don't know one. It would give us an equal footing against those of which english is their second langauge. It would also help us from truely being "ugly Americans". You should see how we behave overseas, disgusting!

    Quote:

    'The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' '
    I see her holding up a hatchet and saying "if you cut up here, we will cut you there"!
  • 09-29-2009, 12:34 PM
    ForeverAutumn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    This is going to be a huge problem. Who will do the landscaping? Not Americans. Who will buss the dishes when you go out to eat? Not Americans. Who is going to clean the houses and baby sit the children of the rich? Sure ain't goin to be Americans. Who will pick veggies and fruits, be a cheap labor supply for construction contractors? Who will clean the rooms at hotels? Sho ain't no American gonna do it. On paper this sounds good, but the reality is, American business would either shut down, or have to charge an arm and a leg for things we take for granted as being relatively affordable.

    Tom Russell, one of the great american storytellers...

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZIQeG8izfBc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZIQeG8izfBc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
  • 09-29-2009, 12:55 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Tom Russell, one of the great american storytellers...

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZIQeG8izfBc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZIQeG8izfBc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    I loved it....thanks FA! :thumbsup:
  • 09-29-2009, 01:33 PM
    Sorry, not taking the bait. I disagree with parts of every one of the 10 points. It smacks of a boat-load of ignorance. Were it not for the tentative humor, it would be considered quite offensive to most. It's actually sad that not more people are offended, but that's all I'm going to say.
  • 09-29-2009, 01:49 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    Sorry, not taking the bait. I disagree with parts of every one of the 10 points. It smacks of a boat-load of ignorance. Were it not for the tentative humor, it would be considered quite offensive to most. It's actually sad that not more people are offended, but that's all I'm going to say.

    NF, let's face it, alot of folks do feel this way, ignorant or not. I don't think it is ignorant as much as it is the pendulum swinging way too far in the opposite direction.
  • 10-01-2009, 08:49 AM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    Sorry, not taking the bait. I disagree with parts of every one of the 10 points. It smacks of a boat-load of ignorance. Were it not for the tentative humor, it would be considered quite offensive to most. It's actually sad that not more people are offended, but that's all I'm going to say.


    Time moves and it ebbs and flows...we have, at times, been capable of accomplishing much on this planet. The simple fact is that, at this point, we are but we're not.

    I have amazing faith in the American will but let's be real...we clearly need to step back and look at ourselves...

    Why is it a "boatlaod of ignorance" that to assume, just for a time, that we as a country need to spend time focusing on our own issues. If we can't resolve our issues, what chance do we have in resolving the issues of the world?....and Why should we?....Clearly nobody wants us...

    Wow...some folks in the world find it "offensive"? I'll tell you what I find offensive....the fact that we continue to play duck-and-cover...the fact tact that we support Puppet-dictatorships...the fact that we give money constantly to to those that avow to end our way of life...

    ...Pluralism ain't a bad gig...and if for a minute in time we need to fall in and take care of our own then maybe the rest of the world can bootstrap...mebbe survive the Brazillian junta, the oncoming Russian Revolution...but at this point the fires at home might be the most prevalent...it's not necessarily forever....
  • 10-01-2009, 08:56 AM
    Auricauricle
    Well, I say....

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xCim7mmLWRA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xCim7mmLWRA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    failing that, who wants a beer??
  • 10-01-2009, 11:25 AM
    3LB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by STtT
    This is going to be a huge problem. Who will do the landscaping? Not Americans. Who will buss the dishes when you go out to eat? Not Americans. Who is going to clean the houses and baby sit the children of the rich? Sure ain't goin to be Americans. Who will pick veggies and fruits, be a cheap labor supply for construction contractors? Who will clean the rooms at hotels? Sho ain't no American gonna do it. On paper this sounds good, but the reality is, American business would either shut down, or have to charge an arm and a leg for things we take for granted as being relatively affordable.

    That rhetoric is as tired and fashionable as the sentiment you're trying to debunk. As an 'American' who has done plenty of dirty jobs for far less than living wage, I say look in the mirror when you say stuff like that.

    When business owners and contractors hire illegal aliens to do work for them, it isn't just for the low pay, its for the ability to shirk every labor law and code on the books.
    Its so they can get away with:
    • not paying L&I and SS
    • not paying overtime (but working lots of it)
    • paying less than minimum wage
    • not paying in a timely manner (or not at all)
    • running sweat shops
    • shirking safety and quality standards
    • shirking common decency in general
    • hiding other illegal activities
    • I could go on

    People knowingly engaged in the employ of illegal aliens are breaking the law and should be prosecuted (not fined). They are not employing illegal aliens because they're being held up for ransom by "Americans" or because there was ever a shortage of "Americans" willing to do the job. Most Americans work for far less than a living wage and that includes prog lovin white guys like me.

    Now lets see your Wal-Mart rant or anything else you've experienced second or third hand or read about. I'll fix that too.

    I just love limousine liberalism
  • 10-01-2009, 11:43 AM
    markw
    Never thought I'd say this. but...
  • 10-01-2009, 12:16 PM
    Auricauricle
    As far as I am concerned, this is all a bunch of silliness heaped on a pile of s___! Tear down the barriers, fornicate with everybody and get rid of the churches and the temples and the pagodas....Until we start living as Earthlings, we are doomed. Make John Lennon's Imagine be the global anthem and the only laws be Love thy Neighbor and Mind yer own Frickin' Business (thank you George Carlin). If anybody wants to duke it out, we'll ship 'em to Phobos and Deimos where they can lob missles and insults all they like.

    Hmph!
  • 10-01-2009, 12:26 PM
    Some may have to be shipped to Lesbos, but I get the point...
  • 10-01-2009, 01:19 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    That rhetoric is as tired and fashionable as the sentiment you're trying to debunk. As an 'American' who has done plenty of dirty jobs for far less than living wage, I say look in the mirror when you say stuff like that.

    When business owners and contractors hire illegal aliens to do work for them, it isn't just for the low pay, its for the ability to shirk every labor law and code on the books.
    Its so they can get away with:
    • not paying L&I and SS
    • not paying overtime (but working lots of it)
    • paying less than minimum wage
    • not paying in a timely manner (or not at all)
    • running sweat shops
    • shirking safety and quality standards
    • shirking common decency in general
    • hiding other illegal activities
    • I could go on

    People knowingly engaged in the employ of illegal aliens are breaking the law and should be prosecuted (not fined). They are not employing illegal aliens because they're being held up for ransom by "Americans" or because there was ever a shortage of "Americans" willing to do the job. Most Americans work for far less than a living wage and that includes prog lovin white guys like me.

    Now lets see your Wal-Mart rant or anything else you've experienced second or third hand or read about. I'll fix that too.

    I just love limousine liberalism


    I would like to remind you that YOU are not every American. Your experiences are not reflective of a broader "American". Keep that in mind. Just because YOU did something does not mean EVERY American has done it, or wants to do it. Not everyone thinks like you do, or will agree with what you agree with. If Americans would pick veggies, do manual labor, make up beds, baby sit kids, wash cars, clean rooms, etc, etc, then there would be NO JOBS for illegals to do, and they would not be here. Remember the laws of supply and demand. We Americans want everything cheaply, or done for cheap. The cheap does not include what most Americans call a living wage.

    Quote:

    That rhetoric is as tired and fashionable as the sentiment you're trying to debunk. As an 'American' who has done plenty of dirty jobs for far less than living wage, I say look in the mirror when you say stuff like that.
    What I stated is the REALITY, whether it chaps your tender hide or not. The facts and figures bare this out. In California, Texas, Illinois, and Arizona were the majority of illegal immigrants live, they dominate employment in Hotels, Construction, Food Service, Landscaping, Meat packing, Agriculture, and several other industries. The reason why they do has more to do with what we WON'T do, rather than some nefarious bitter reasons you mention. Not everyone is as crooked as you make them.

    For instance; My best friend is a Controller of four upscale boutique hotels that are part of a large management and ownership chain. One of his hotels just recently renovated its five star dining hall, and were re-opening. He put an ad in the paper for buss people, dishwashers, and housekeepers. The only folks that showed up and applied were either legal immigrants of Mexican, Central, and South American backgrounds, or illegal folks of the same groups with fake social security numbers and drivers licenses. He ended up hiring quite a few illegals, but they had both legit looking social security cards and drivers licences, and there was no way for him to check them at hiring time. Quite a few of them became legal through regular channels (and sponsorship), and some were fired when everything was found out. Was he this evil, trying to get around the rules guy? Absolutely not!

    Another example. I have another friend that owns a wine yard in Napa California. Every year he goes into his local town to advertise for grape pickers, and processors. Napa is predominately white, but only Mexicans show up (legal and illegal) at the hiring hall. Where are all of the native folks? They don't do this kind of work.

    How about a tuna packing company I visited while during a documentary shoot I did sound on. Their Operation Manager has tried time and time again to aim his search to wide variety of people, but he can only get Mexicans and other Latinos to work for his company. Why, not because he does follow the rules, or pay a poor salary (they make an average of $20 an hour there), but because no white or black is filling out application for his repetitious and sometimes back straining work.

    Ever talk to the average teenager? I had two of them. They are not going to work in a factory doing manual labor, they are not going to work in fields either. And they are not going to take a job making minimum wage, because It was not enough to give them the buying power they want.

    Can you tell me why Dell had a hard time staffing a call center in South Dakota, the bastion of white guys like you? Because a lot of folks don't want to do call center work, and definitely not in South Dakota. Do you really think a legal or illegal qualified immigrant would have turn this job down no matter where it was? I think not.

    Before you paint every business owner with the same brush, try and look at a situation from with their perspective if you can. Not everyone is evil, and not everyone is trying to bilk or beat out the system.

    Quote:

    People knowingly engaged in the employ of illegal aliens are breaking the law and should be prosecuted (not fined). They are not employing illegal aliens because they're being held up for ransom by "Americans" or because there was ever a shortage of "Americans" willing to do the job. Most Americans work for far less than a living wage and that includes prog lovin white guys like me.
    Knowingly engaged people should be prosecuted. But your first response assumes that they are all know what is exactly is legal, and what is not. Have you ever seen a good copy of a Social Security card? The look real and authentic to most folks eyes. I have seen a fake drivers license that looked exactly like my original.

    Most "Americans" (like central and south Americans are less "American") working for less than a living wage are not doing it in the Hotel or Hospitality field. They are not doing it in Agriculture, not in Construction, or any other job dominated by legal and illegal immigrants.

    Quote:

    Now lets see your Wal-Mart rant or anything else you've experienced second or third hand or read about. I'll fix that too.
    Proof perfect that you were coming here looking for a fight. Well if that is what you want, I'll give it to you. So far you have not been able to fix anything. Your juvenile rant which smelled of an strong inferiority complex did not advance any of your arguments in that Walmart thread. Secondly, I am sorry you cannot leave the garbage (that would be your attitude) from the Walmart thread in the Walmart thread. I guess that takes some level of maturity you haven't quite reached yet. Third, we are discussing an issue that has nothing to do with your jaunts in the less than living wage job market, what I covered are facts supported by evidence, and you see that nobody else argued them down.

    I did not come to this thread to engage in a petty argument with you. I have remained totally civil throughout this discussion, and I will continue to do so. Please do not attempt to bait me to act uncivil, because it will not work. I do not wallow in mud, and I also do not wallow with mud.

    I strongly prefer my Lexus SUV hybrid to a limo.
  • 10-02-2009, 09:49 AM
    3LB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by STtT
    I would like to remind you that YOU are not every American. Your experiences are not reflective of a broader "American". Keep that in mind. Just because YOU did something does not mean EVERY American has done it, or wants to do it. Not everyone thinks like you do, or will agree with what you agree with.

    Oh and you do know what every American thinks? I speak from experience and you speak from an inflated ego. I do know what I'm talking about and you think you know what your talking about.

    I live in berry country up here in Washington and the farmers up here are under constant pressure to make sure their work force includes a percentage of immigrant workers that goes beyond the percentage of immigrant workers that live in our area.

    I've known plenty of people who worked doing janitorial and maid services and only a handful of those workers were immigrant workers (I was a janitor for years). I've known plenty of contractors as well (been there done that) and it was obvious who paid close attention to immigrant status and who didn't. And the reasons I listed above were some that were quoted to me by a reputable contractor who assured me that some contractors preferred illegals and work-release (jail) labor as they will 'keep their mouths shut'.

    And just to clarify, since you've already made the accusation, I include any citizen, natural born or naturalized, regardless of race or religious background, when I use the term American. The issue with illegal immigration has to do with who is and isn't paying income taxes, not who was here first.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by STtT
    we are discussing an issue that has nothing to do with your jaunts in the less than living wage job market, what I covered are facts supported by evidence, and you see that nobody else argued them down.

    What evidence? Your second and third hand accounts? Why don't you stick to what you know, telling everyone what you're too good to do for a living, and stop making judgements against millions of people you have no clue about...the blue-collar workforce. As for my "jaunts into less than living wage", I've been in that workforce a long time and done all kinds of jobs - I've never met anyone in my position saying, "I won't do that job, that's what illegals are for". Am I saying that I represent thousands of American workers? No, but I got quite a bit of experience and I know what the work force looks like, even the jobs you mentioned.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by STtT
    I did not come to this thread to engage in a petty argument with you. I have remained totally civil throughout this discussion, and I will continue to do so. Please do not attempt to bait me to act uncivil, because it will not work. I do not wallow in mud, and I also do not wallow with mud.

    This is a civil statement? You can look through my posts and see that I've made no such personalized assessment of you. My response had to do with your willingness to make broad sweeping generalizations about a group of people that you know nothing about, other than what you've read. There is no excuse for willingly hiring illegal aliens (no, of course I'm not referring to businesses deceived by fraud). There is no reason why anyone who pays their taxes should tolerate a dime of that revenue be spent on those who don't. Why should the US be any different than any other country in that regard?

    As for my statement regarding being a prog lovin white guy, I do appologize for making that statement, as one could infer that I attach racial issues to this, and I do not.
  • 10-02-2009, 02:39 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    Oh and you do know what every American thinks? I speak from experience and you speak from an inflated ego. I do know what I'm talking about and you think you know what your talking about.

    I didn't make the claims that you did, and I never said I know what every American thinks.
    Can you tell me how an inflated ego can think?. Is your head so fat, and ego so big, that you think your experience mirrors everyone elses? You think you know what you are talking about, but you know a grand total of nothing. Your world is not everyones world. When you get that through your thick and empty skull, then we can move on and deal with the facts.

    Quote:

    I live in berry country up here in Washington and the farmers up here are under constant pressure to make sure their work force includes a percentage of immigrant workers that goes beyond the percentage of immigrant workers that live in our area.
    Thats Washington. It is not California, New York, Texas, or Arizona were the majority of legal and illegal immigrants from Mexico live. Washington has approximately 280,000 illegal immigrants. California has 2.6 million, so you hardly are in a place to have a persepctive on illegal immigrants and what they do for a living.

    Quote:

    I've known plenty of people who worked doing janitorial and maid services and only a handful of those workers were immigrant workers (I was a janitor for years). I've known plenty of contractors as well (been there done that) and it was obvious who paid close attention to immigrant status and who didn't. And the reasons I listed above were some that were quoted to me by a reputable contractor who assured me that some contractors preferred illegals and work-release (jail) labor as they will 'keep their mouths shut'.
    You are living in a state where illegal immigration is barely a problem. No wonder only a handful of workers who are janitors or maids in your state are immigrants
    So your small insigificant world is now all of the United States? Don't think so. So you quote ONE contractor, and that represents the thousands of contractors in this country. You need to step back from the crack, or is just how you are? As I said previously, not all contractors are evil, and not all are law abiding citizens either. But your broad brush stroke not only does not make sense, but shows that you think you world is everyone world. It's not, and never will be.

    Quote:

    And just to clarify, since you've already made the accusation, I include any citizen, natural born or naturalized, regardless of race or religious background, when I use the term American. The issue with illegal immigration has to do with who is and isn't paying income taxes, not who was here first.
    If you are talking taxes, then you are still wrong as two left shoes. Illegals pay sales, income, SS, and local taxes

    Let's take your assinine assumptions a puts some number to it.

    Quote:

    They don't pay SS taxes
    False. It is estimated that they pay about $9 billion a year in taxes

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...ntstaxes_N.htm

    Also keep in mind they don't collect what they put into the system, so that 9 billion is unclaimed money that goes to a legal resident.

    This article estimates that Illegals paid $428 billion in income taxes in 2006.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-751-Immigr...ants-and-taxes

    So your notion that they don't pay SS and income taxes is false. Maybe not all pay taxes, but a significant portion do. The rest of your rant is what evil employers do, not what EVERY employer does.

    Quote:

    What evidence? Your second and third hand accounts? Why don't you stick to what you know, telling everyone what you're too good to do for a living, and stop making judgements against millions of people you have no clue about...the blue-collar workforce. As for my "jaunts into less than living wage", I've been in that workforce a long time and done all kinds of jobs - I've never met anyone in my position saying, "I won't do that job, that's what illegals are for". Am I saying that I represent thousands of American workers? No, but I got quite a bit of experience and I know what the work force looks like, even the jobs you mentioned.
    If you position and perspective comes from living below a living wage, then hell no, you are not going to meet anyone who would turn down a job. Experience is meaningless in this particular example. That facts are the only thing relevant right now. Your experience does not equal facts. This statement shows just how damn ignorant you are. According to the pew research center out 2,218,000 cooks in the country, 20% of them (that is 436,000) are illegal immingrants. Out of nearly 2 million construction laborors, 25% (or 400,000) are illegal immigrants. Out of 1.5 million maids and housekeepers 22% (that is 342,000) are illegal immigrants. In Agriculture it is even more telling. Out of 639,000 agri-workers, 30% (that's 247,000) are illegal immigrants. Most of these illegals reside in California (25% of total illegals), Texas (14% of total illegals) and Florida (8% of total). These breakdowns are from 2006. The state of Washington has approximately 280,000 illegals, a scant 2% of all legals in the country. Do you see how skewed and ignorant your perspective is? Maybe not, since you came here to fight and not think.

    Quote:

    This is a civil statement? You can look through my posts and see that I've made no such personalized assessment of you. My response had to do with your willingness to make broad sweeping generalizations about a group of people that you know nothing about, other than what you've read.
    This is a pretty stupid statement for you to make considering you said this:

    When business owners and contractors hire illegal aliens to do work for them, it isn't just for the low pay, its for the ability to shirk every labor law and code on the books.
    Its so they can get away with:


    You talk about willingness to make a broad sweeping generalization.

    Quote:

    There is no excuse for willingly hiring illegal aliens (no, of course I'm not referring to businesses deceived by fraud). There is no reason why anyone who pays their taxes should tolerate a dime of that revenue be spent on those who don't. Why should the US be any different than any other country in that regard?
    We are not talking about business owners who are willingly hiring anyone, we are discussing sending all illegals home. Please do not hyjack this thread because you have a cactus up your butt on this issue. The reality is, and it support by most economic analysts that we would suffer economically if we sent all illegals home tomorrow.

    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...mmigrants.aspx

    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/8604

    I will choose the facts over your experience any day. You jumped into this thread throwing your so called experience, and as you can see, it is worth nothing. You live is a state that has next to nothing in terms of illegals, so you experience is meaningless. Come from my state which has 25% of the total population of illegals in the country, and it is much easier to see what jobs they do.

    Next time you bust into a thread throwing around your experience, make sure that experience is relevant in the context of the conversation. This time it wasn't.



    Quote:

    As for my statement regarding being a prog lovin white guy, I do appologize for making that statement, as one could infer that I attach racial issues to this, and I do not.
    I didn't pay attention to that ignorant nonsense because I could care less what color you are. You claims are unfounded as were your assumptions, that was all I was interested in.
  • 10-02-2009, 07:27 PM
    3LB
    This whole argument started between you and I because you made a broad statement declaring what you think Americans will and won't do for living as if you knew. You are completely wrong with your broad strokes. You are also the only one resorting to name calling. You state you must be in the right because no one else has jumped on your so-called facts, but I get the suspicion they haven't done so because they know its fruitless. You have been completely uncivil to me simply because I called you on your stereotypical remarks about American workers.

    You have the distinction of being the first person in the 10 years I've been here that I have ever wanted to put on ignore, so make your next response a good for all to see moron, because I'm done. So long dickhead.

    Well, I guess I can't "ignore" you, beings that you're a moderator. Still, my dickhead comment to you stays.
  • 10-03-2009, 08:56 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    This whole argument started between you and I because you made a broad statement declaring what you think Americans will and won't do for living as if you knew.

    No this argument started because you attempted to use your limited perspective as representative of what ALL Americans think or do. You live in a state that does not have an illegal immigration problem, and I live in a state that does have one. If legal Americans would apply for dishwashers,landscapers and gardeners, fish cleaner, fruit and vegetable pickers, cotton pickers, maid, and housekeepers,etc then there would be no jobs for illegals to take. In California, Texas, Arizona and New York illegals do this kind of manual labor, and based on the latest census states like Nebraska, Illinois, and Tennessee are seeing this work going to illegals as well. I can read and I can see, as I do not think my small world (my life) represents the greater world, a fact that you can't seem to grasp.


    Quote:

    You are completely wrong with your broad strokes.
    My links prove I am right, and that you are just ignorant as hell on this issue.

    Quote:

    You are also the only one resorting to name calling.
    I call it as I see it. You are just like Pixel, a loud mouth fool who is always looking to fight. I will give you just what you are looking for...no problem here

    Quote:

    You state you must be in the right because no one else has jumped on your so-called facts, but I get the suspicion they haven't done so because they know its fruitless.
    Perhaps they have not done so because they know I am right. Nobody here has a problem challenging me, and they do when they think I am wrong. I provided links to support my statements, where is yours? I hope you are not going to bring your limited experience as the basis of your support because that ain't going to cut it.

    Quote:

    You have been completely uncivil to me simply because I called you on your stereotypical remarks about American workers.
    This is passive/aggressive bull$hit. Funny that my so called stereotypical remarks have links that support them. All you have brought to the table is your experience in a state with no illegal immigrant problem. Hardly a basis for deciding why illegals get hired, and why the do the jobs they do.


    Quote:

    You have the distinction of being the first person in the 10 years I've been here that I have ever wanted to put on ignore, so make your next response a good for all to see moron, because I'm done. So long dickhead.
    Dickhead......the language of low class gutter snipe. Where are the facts that support your notions? There are none, which is why you jumped up to the curb and called that name. I refer back to my comment that I don't play in, or with mud.

    Put me on ignore please, that way I don't have to respond to your stupid comments.

    Quote:

    Well, I guess I can't "ignore" you, beings that you're a moderator.
    I am not a moderator, and have not been one here in years. So please press ignore, do me that favor.

    Quote:

    Still, my dickhead comment to you stays.
    Of course it stays, its the best that a low class gutter snipe can do.