Let's talk about gas.

Hey everybody,

I just have a couple of things to say - maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not. Just thoughts. I don't know about you, but I can't stand paying for gas these days. I'm a medical student, living off loans. Now, I'm pretty sure I'll be trading in my Tacoma for a Civic (tear, sob). No more off roading for me for a while, I guess. Anyway, I keep hearing all this stuff about how we're in an "energy crisis" and how the oil companies are "gouging" us. Also, I keep hearing how we're using up all our natural resources.

First of all - what the heck is crude oil good for anyway, aside from energy production? Yeah, I know other products are made from it, but to a much lesser degree than fuel. I mean, so what if we run out. How long will that take anyway? 50 years? 100 years? We're not anywhere close to being in short supply, so why not use it until alternative technologies have proven themselves to be truly viable replacements, speaking both of performance and cost. People still have boats to pull, people to seat, and equipment to haul. Those sissy little "eco friendly" getups aren't going to work for many people.

Regarding price "gouging", I'm not sure it's really the fault of the oil companies. Yes, they are having record profits, but they're still operating on roughly a 10% profit margin. McDonalds does better than that, as do many other companies, large and small. You don't see Congress interrogating Ronald McDonald multiple times, do you? Besides, the federal and state governments make substantially more per dollar of gasoline than do the oil companies. I found the following "breakdown". It's from March, 2008.

$3.77 = 1 Gallon of Gas (National Average)
----------------------------------------------------
$2.72 = Crude Oil
$0.45 = Taxes
$0.30 = Refining
$0.27 = Distribution & Marketing
$0.03 = Retail Markup

If anybody is gouging us, it's the Saudis first, then our own government. Additionally, the oil companies distributed the majority of their profits among the share holders. That equates to putting tens of billions of dollars back into the economy. I'm OK with that, especially today.

What we need to do is use the oil we already have in abundance in our own country. In fact, that should have begun over a decade ago. Let's drill the stuff, refine it, and use it. Again, until something truly better comes along (hasn't happened yet), I see no reason to stop using it. By the time we run out, should that day ever come, we'll undoubtedly have any number of alternatives to meet our needs. Heck, my dad told me that when he was younger, 12 mpg was fantastic. Now, we consider that a "gas guzzler". Today's cars provide huge gains in performance and economy. Heck, the new Corvette achieves 28 mpg at highway speeds. Not bad. Think what another 40 years will bring.

Anyway, this is just me, rambling. Feel free to add your comments below - for or against.

Hi, NFE,

The Saudis could alleviate the current oil crunch by upping production by 20% or some such figure. But what's in it for them? Their making plenty of money right now and they'd like to conserve some of the potential revenue for future years.

50 or 100 years to run out of oil? Much sooner than that if we're talking about gas at under $5 per gallon in the U.S, regardless of what the Saudis do. Or $10/gal for that matter.

The problem -- and it's much more than a oil shortage problem -- is exponentially increasing demand in China and India, (the most populous countries in the world). The U.S. isn't to sole villain any more.

we should save it.

the longer you're going to use fuel without bothering for new clean technologies, the longer it will take for those new, clean alternatives to break through, and the more you'll be paying in the meanwhile.

there's your reason...

besides, oil is used for ALOT more than energy production and fuel. Roughly only 10% of the total available oil is used for fuel, all the rest is used for other products...

even all your roads are made out of oil.


and hopefully, in 40 years we'll all be driving eco friendly cars...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

When John McCain gets elected everything will work out.

Yes, it's just that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basite

besides, oil is used for ALOT more than energy production and fuel. Roughly only 10% of the total available oil is used for fuel, all the rest is used for other products...

---

Basite. I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but according to the EIA, you're almost completely inverted. The vast majority of crude oil is used for fuels. Check the website out. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/crudeoil_faqs.asp

Feanor, I agree that China and India pose unique problems regarding supply. That's why I think we should drill more of our own oil. I'm all for alternative energy sources, but right now they're just too expensive, and often provide little bang for the buck. A Prius gets great mileage, but it would take several years to make up the difference between merely buying a Corolla. Plus, it provides a less satisfying driving experience. I think the day will come, hopefully soon, that we'll have good, possibly renewable alternatives, and not just for cars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

When John McCain gets elected everything will work out.

Yes, it's just that simple.

---

Muhahahahaha
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can thank me later Feanor for brightening up your day. :biggrin5:

Who's John McCain?

Why don't I feel any better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natronforever

Who's John McCain?

---

What country do you live in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMichael

Why don't I feel any better?

---

Is your name Feanor? :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natronforever

Who's John McCain?

---

I bet you know who Britney Spears is.

Oh, wait. Isn't he that guy I may be voting for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

Is your name Feanor? :rolleyes:

---

No, but I'd be happy to change it if you think it will help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMichael

I bet you know who Britney Spears is.

---

I think the only person who doesn't know who Britney Spears is, is Britney Spears.

Listening to Britney Spears gives me gas.


(oh come on, you knew someone was going to say it!)

We need more affordable alternatives. I just bought a new Ford Escape. I looked into a hybrid version, but based on the calculations that my sales guy did, I would have to drive it for at least 7 years to break even on the gas savings vs. the additional $5,000 cost of the vehicle. I've never owned a car for that long. Since I was only taking a three year lease, it made no sense to get a hybrid.

It only cost $1,100 to go from the 2.3L to 3.0L engine. But $6,000 more go from the 2.3L to the Hybrid. If we're going to be pressured to move to more eco-friendly vehicles, these prices need to be reversed. A Hybrid Escape might be good for the environment, but gas is going to have increase a whole lot more in price before it becomes an economical alternative.

There has to be something in it for me in the short-term.

Forgive me if I derailed your topic natronforever. In my opinion, one reason why gas prices jump the way they do is because of these Futures speculators who say things like... "recent threats against Nigeria will likely cause prices to increase." I mean, who ARE these people and why does the market react negatively every time this babble surfaces? It's a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn

We need more affordable alternatives. I just bought a new Ford Escape. I looked into a hybrid version, but based on the calculations that my sales guy did, I would have to drive it for at least 7 years to break even on the gas savings vs. the additional $5,000 cost of the vehicle. I've never owned a car for that long. Since I was only taking a three year lease, it made no sense to get a hybrid.

It only cost $1,100 to go from the 2.3L to 3.0L engine. But $6,000 more go from the 2.3L to the Hybrid. If we're going to be pressured to move to more eco-friendly vehicles, these prices need to be reversed. A Hybrid Escape might be good for the environment, but gas is going to have increase a whole lot more in price before it becomes an economical alternative.

There has to be something in it for me in the short-term.

---

Since I keep my cars 'till they disintegrate, hybrid might work for me, but I have to agree that the price differential is outrageous. Obviously the auto companies are at the sucker-skimming stage of the marketing cycle where hybrid/high-efficiency cars are concerned. ("We'll make those tree-huggers can pay the nose".)

Complicating things for us Canadians is the US vs. Canada price differential issue. I noticed in Consumer Reports that Toyota Prius price range in the US is (as I recall) $21-24k. When I checked out Toyota.ca, the price was $32k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

Forgive me if I derailed your topic natronforever. In my opinion, one reason why gas prices jump the way they do is because of these Futures speculators who say things like... "recent threats against Nigeria will likely cause prices to increase." I mean, who ARE these people and why does the market react negatively every time this babble surfaces? It's a joke.

---

Speculators are a big factor in the current market as I understand. That's true for other commodities too of course.

But I'm sure John McCain will get it all straightened away in his first six months in office.
:lol: :nonod:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

Forgive me if I derailed your topic natronforever.

---

Thanks, Rich, but nothing to forgive. I mean, this is the "Off Topic" section of the forum. Also, you bring up a good point. Gas prices grow every time there's some sort of "speculation" of catastrophe, but when it turns out to be nothing, we don't get a refund.

Also, I agree with ForeverAutunn. The only thing keeping us from mainstream acceptance of alternative technologies is the consumer's bottom line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Left Wing Radical

But I'm sure John McCain will get it all straightened away in his first six months in office.

---

Well, Dick Cheney won't be around anymore so...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natronforever

First of all - what the heck is crude oil good for anyway, aside from energy production? Yeah, I know other products are made from it, but to a much lesser degree than fuel. I mean, so what if we run out.

---

Well for one thing alot of pesticides are made from petroleum phosphates, so there's the potential for famine. Let's not forget plastics and food storage. Frankly I think that the replacement of these everyday items is a more daunting proposition than replacing the very necessary means of transportation...we're pretty good at figuring out the necessities when our backs are to the wall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

Well, Dick Cheney won't be around anymore so...

---

I know that you got a job Ms. Cheney
but your husband's heart problem's complicating.

Here ya go...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ABC News

In Washington, meanwhile, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission revealed that it is six months into a wide-ranging investigation of U.S. oil markets, with a focus on possible price manipulation. The CFTC also announced a handful of initiatives designed to increase transparency of the energy futures markets.
Disclosure of the investigation may have contributed to oil's declines, analysts said.

---

This was taken from an article about oil prices in general, and there are other factors invloved, but it once again shows how too much power in the hands of too many greedy MF'ers can cause hardships in EVERYONE's lives. Don't know if this is true but I was told these Oil Futures speculators are hired by the oil companies.

But yeah Mr. John Q. Public, just keep letting yourself be led around like sheep being herded by a pack of wolves. This crap makes me very angry. :mad5: