Let's talk about gas.

[Feanor]

Here ya go...


This was taken from an article about oil prices in general, and there are other factors invloved, but it once again shows how too much power in the hands of too many greedy MF'ers can cause hardships in EVERYONE's lives. Don't know if this is true but I was told these Oil Futures speculators are hired by the oil companies.

But yeah Mr. John Q. Public, just keep letting yourself be led around like sheep being herded by a pack of wolves. This crap makes me very angry.

You're a Republican, Rich? To quote Andre the Giant in Princess Bride, "I don't thing that word means what you think it means".

[Rich-n-Texas]

And Osama Obama is going to make any difference? This has little to do with politics, and MUCH to do with corporate greed.

[natronforever]

Oh, I don't doubt the oil companies are laughing all the way to the bank, but their profit margins still aren't abnormal or outrageous when you look at pure percentages of profit. I just think it's hypocritical of the federal government to repeatedly interrogate the oil executives, when the government (federal + state) earns more money per gallon of gasoline sold than the oil companies.

[Feanor]

And Osama Obama is going to make any difference? This has little to do with politics, and MUCH to do with corporate greed.

Greed, corporate and otherwise, is here to stay. But are you suggesting the laws and government policy can do nothing to curb it?

Without a dedious digression on the faults of Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party, which U.S. party do you think is more in the pocket of corporate interests? As an "impartial" observer in a foreign country, I've made up my mind.

[basite]

And Osama Obama is going to make any difference? This has little to do with politics, and MUCH to do with corporate greed.

so John Mcain is going to make a difference?

while he'll be better than bush (which is not that hard, considering he's a first class moron), he still bears the republican mind that says 'everything for the rich'...

that's also the opinion of an "impartial" observer from an even more foreign country.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Greed, corporate and otherwise, is here to stay. But are you suggesting the laws and government policy can do nothing to curb it?

Depends on what your definition of "curb" is. I suggest you're trying to lessen the impact of the fact that the government can do nothing to "stop" it. Which they can't.

Without a dedious digression on the faults of Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party, which U.S. party do you think is more in the pocket of corporate interests?

You think democrats aren't in the corporation's back pockets too? Is that what your liberal press in Canada, which is obviously where you form your opinions about US policy, tells you? You assume way too much Bill.

Wait a minute. Why "Without dedious digression on the faults of Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party..."? What are you trying to cover up? Is it the fact that both Clinton's are slimey underhanded liars? They're both liars, right? Even OUR liberal media has pointed that out. Hillary's even trying to lie her way into the presidency. They're as much a product of corporate greed as the chairman of ExxonMobil. Please.

As an "impartial" observer in a foreign country, I've made up my mind.

Great! Too bad you can't come down here and vote in the election, huh?

[Rich-n-Texas]

When John McCain gets elected everything will work out.

Yes, it's just that simple.

so John Mcain is going to make a difference?

My comment was made with tongue-in-cheek Bert. Nevertheless, it had the desired effect.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Gotta love arm chair politics.

[Feanor]

Depends on what your definition of "curb" is. I suggest you're trying to lessen the impact of the fact that the government can do nothing to "stop" it. Which they can't.
...

True enough.

...
You think democrats aren't in the corporation's back pockets too? Is that what your liberal press in Canada, which is obviously where you form your opinions about US policy, tells you? You assume way too much Bill.
...

Not at all: I don't get my opinions for the liberal press in Canada -- which isn't all that liberal in any case, (or Liberal, either). This is the Internet age: all U.S. media are accessible to us here.

But yes, doubtless the Democrates are quite beholden to corporations as well, just a little less so. The fact is the U.S. has no party that can be said to represent the people. We in Canada have one or two, albeit they are a long way from power for the usual reason: the wealthy and corporations know create red herrings that district most of us from our real interests. Red herrings today include the likes of right-to-life, gay marriage, national security, "the American way", and the always trusty appeal to religious piety.

...
Wait a minute. Why "Without dedious digression on the faults of Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party..."? What are you trying to cover up? Is it the fact that both Clinton's are slimey underhanded liars? They're both liars, right? Even OUR liberal media has pointed that out. Hillary's even trying to lie her way into the presidency. They're as much a product of corporate greed as the chairman of ExxonMobil. Please.
...

(Yawn , this blabber is exactly why I hoped to avoid the digression.) If you're looking for perfect forthright politicians you'll search in vain. But I'd rather have a politico that utters the odd white lie than a G.W.Bush who is both an idiot and a monumental liar.

...
Great! Too bad you can't come down here and vote in the election, huh?

Too bad indeed. When you consider how much harm a U.S. president can do to the rest of the world, it's a pity all of us don't get to vote.

[ForeverAutumn]

Too bad indeed. When you consider how much harm a U.S. president can do to the rest of the world, it's a pity all of us don't get to vote.

Comment of the Month.

[basite]

Comment of the Month.

seconded...

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh Gawd. "the odd white lie". Hillary tried to create an image that would generate sympathy towards her cause with the bit about getting fired on by snipers while landing in Bosnia. Say whatever you need to in order to get elected right? You downplay anything a democrat (notice the lower case d) says or does and then throw George Bush into the fire because of your perception that he's a liar. Odd white lie my ass Bill.

When you consider how much harm a U.S. president can do to the rest of the world, it's a pity all of us don't get to vote.

And how hard he tries to bring countries ruled by tyrants and dictators into a democracy where they don't get put to death if they look at the leaders crosseyed... in other words a crusader for human rights, and when he has helicopters loaded with supplies waiting to help save the lives of human victims ravaged by natural disasters, and how he promised to bring the murderers of innocents of ALL races creeds and colors to justice for using airplanes loaded with people as missles, and so on and so on and so on. "It's lonely at the top". Ever heard that one Bill?

You're like my neice, she only hears what she wants to hear.

[basite]

And how hard he tries to bring countries ruled by tyrants and dictators into a democracy where they don't get put to death if they look at the leaders crosseyed... in other words a crusader for human rights, and when he has helicopters loaded with supplies waiting to help save the lives of human victims ravaged by natural disasters, and how he promised to bring the murderers of innocents of ALL races creeds and colors to justice for using airplanes loaded with people as missles, and so on and so on and so on. "It's lonely at the top". Ever heard that one Bill?

You're like my neice, she only hears what she wants to hear.

if it wasn't for the oil, he'd stay out of there.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Out of where Bert? Iraq? How much oil does Iraq supply the US with?

[natronforever]

You're a Republican, Rich? To quote Andre the Giant in Princess Bride, "I don't thing that word means what you think it means".

I may be mistaken, as I haven't seen the flick for a while, but wasn't that Inigo Montoya who said that?

[ForeverAutumn]

Please hand this man a soap box.

Crusader for human rights Rich? Sure, as long as those rights don't belong to gays who want to marry or women who want to have abortions. As long as those rights don't infringe on his delicate personal and religious beliefs.

Helicopters loaded with supplies waiting to help save the lives of human victims ravaged by natural disasters? Tell that to someone from New Orleans and see what they have to say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the downfall of dictorship governments and I support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. But don't try to tell me that Bush is doing it in the name of Human Rights. Puleeese! What's he done for the people in Darfur?

[basite]

Out of where Bert? Iraq? How much oil does Iraq supply the US with?

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/w...aairaqioil.htm

I quote this from the above mentioned site:

"While its proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels ranks Iraq second in the work behind Saudi Arabia, EIA estimates that up to 90-percent of the county remains unexplored due to years of wars and sanctions. Unexplored regions of Iraq could yield an additional 100 billion barrels. Iraq's oil production costs are among the lowest in the world."

and in december 2002, the USA imported 11.3 million barrels of oil from Iraq. While that may not be as much as from other countries, like Saudi Arabia, it would be a great oppertunity for Bush to take over the entire Iraqi oil production...

and why would Bush care about some Iraqi's shooting eachother, if he doesn't really care about the black people in the USA? remember Katrina? remember how long it took before he sent enough help?


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[natronforever]

and why would Bush care about some Iraqi's shooting eachother, if he doesn't really care about the black people in the USA? remember Katrina? remember how long it took before he sent enough help?

It's easy to point fingers in hindsight. Truth is, there's not a single country that's given more than ours, both worldwide and domestic. Of course, it could be argued that the US is in the best position to aid, but my point stands regardless. The breaking of the levies in New Orleans was a bona fide tragedy. In fact, it should never have happened in the first place, but that's a whole other story. But to say Bush doesn't care about black people is kind of a stretch. When the Teton Dam broke in Eastern Idaho, an entire valley was wiped out - homes, farms, everything. Livelihoods were destroyed. And where were the helicopters? The federal assistance? I tell you they were nowhere to be found. And - gasp - it was a white community. So now we can say that the administration in that day was prejudiced against white people? Bad things happen. It's sad, and will always be sad. Good people will always try to help, thank goodness. But I don't think we should always look to the government for salvation every time tragedy strikes - not when we have hands and feet, friends and neighbors. What did they do in Idaho? They, the people, banded together, helped each other out, and rebuilt. I can handle sadness, but it's the bitterness and blame that bothers me.

[Feanor]

... But to say Bush doesn't care about black people is kind of a stretch. ...

It isn't blacks per se that Bush doesn't care about, it's poor and working class people. It just so happens that American blacks have more than their fair share in this category.

Republicans propound the American mystique, to wit, American is the land of opportunity where anyone can achieve wealth and success. If you don't achieve wealth and success then ipso facto you are a lazy, shiftless loser who deserves no consideration.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Please hand this man a soap box.

Crusader for human rights Rich? Sure, as long as those rights don't belong to gays who want to marry or women who want to have abortions. As long as those rights don't infringe on his delicate personal and religious beliefs.

Typical. So, by diverting attention away from what I was talking about... Human Rights, to gay rights, you agree that the US and its present administration do more to advance Human Rights throughout the world than any other country. That's good. You're making progress.

I can think of two states where gays can legally marry. California and Mass. There are probably more but that is of no relevance to me. Abortions? That issue pre-dates the current administration by years and years. It's also a completely separate issue which doesn't belong in this thread. Nice try though.

Helicopters loaded with supplies waiting to help save the lives of human victims ravaged by natural disasters? Tell that to someone from New Orleans and see what they have to say.

Yes. Military helicopters loaded with supplies for victims of natural disasters. Weren't allowed to drop them at the most critical time because of some dumbass dictator who was afraid they'd try to occupy his land. Your type is soooo typical. If you can't find fault in one scenario, look somewhere else, but in the meantime offer no solution or acknowledgement of what good has been done. This mindset is simply boring.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the downfall of dictorship governments and I support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. But don't try to tell me that Bush is doing it in the name of Human Rights. Puleeese! What's he done for the people in Darfur?

Oh I don't get you wrong Ms. Elitist Liberal. And I didn't say he was in Iraq for Human Rights reasons. Everybody knows we're there to promote Democracy, which will give the Iraqis freedom from the evil dictators that once ruled there.

Darfur? Gee I don't know. What has Canada done for Darfur? But if you want, I can set aside some time to research what he's done for millions of other people around the world.

[Rich-n-Texas]

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/w...aairaqioil.htm

I quote this from the above mentioned site:

"While its proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels ranks Iraq second in the work behind Saudi Arabia, EIA estimates that up to 90-percent of the county remains unexplored due to years of wars and sanctions. Unexplored regions of Iraq could yield an additional 100 billion barrels. Iraq's oil production costs are among the lowest in the world."

and in december 2002, the USA imported 11.3 million barrels of oil from Iraq. While that may not be as much as from other countries, like Saudi Arabia, it would be a great oppertunity for Bush to take over the entire Iraqi oil production...

Speculation Bert. I see nothing in that article that indicates that the US WOULD go into Iraq or any other country to get their oil.

and why would Bush care about some Iraqi's shooting eachother, if he doesn't really care about the black people in the USA? remember Katrina? remember how long it took before he sent enough help?

More liberal grandstanding. Sure Bert, I remember Katrina. I also remember reading in the liberal media about how much ineptitude there was at the Mayor of NO's position, at the Governor's position, and at FEMA. So you think the president "doesn't really care about blacks" huh? What in God's name are they teaching in college over there?

[Rich-n-Texas]

It isn't blacks per se that Bush doesn't care about, it's poor and working class people. It just so happens that American blacks have more than their fair share in this category.

More ignorance.

Republicans propound the American mystique, to wit, American is the land of opportunity where anyone can achieve wealth and success. If you don't achieve wealth and success then ipso facto you are a lazy, shiftless loser who deserves no consideration.

Wow! That's some really fancy footwork there Bill. "to wit"? "ipso facto"? But through all that mumbo jumbo it looks to me like you're either calling all Conservatives racists, or all Americans racists. Am I reading you right?

[ForeverAutumn]

Typical. So, by diverting attention away from what I was talking about... Human Rights, to gay rights...

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. Human rights are human rights are human rights. Humans have the right to be treated equally regardless of gender, colour, beliefs, sexual orientation, etc. Two whole states huh? Wow, that's really revolutionary. Make it part of the US Constitution and we'll talk.

I will stay away from the Abortion issue...too emotionally charged without a clear scientific definition of at what stage two cells become a human.

...you agree that the US and its present administration do more to advance Human Rights throughout the world than any other country. That's good. You're making progress.

Huh? Where did I say that????

Oh I don't get you wrong Ms. Elitist Liberal.

That statement only proves that you get me completely wrong. I have voted Conservative in every election since I was old enough to vote...and I most likely always will.

Why must you always resort to calling me names whenever I disagree with you?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. Human rights are human rights are human rights. Humans have the right to be treated equally regardless of gender, colour, beliefs, sexual orientation, etc. Two whole states huh? Wow, that's really revolutionary. Make it part of the US Constitution and we'll talk.

Not "revolutionary"... PROGRESS. And besides, Gay Rights are just as emotionally charged an issue as abortion is, neither of which have anything to do with the price of gas. But I think I speak for all Americans when I say that President Bush is not the villian here, but the man on the street who either through ignorance or religous belief, or both, makes this sitation what it is today. Aren't there other countries or societies where being gay is criminal?

Huh? Where did I say that????

That's exactly my point. By totally ignoring my statement and then finding fault somewhere else you leave the notion that you're agreeing with me on the table. I point out something good, you move on to something bad. That's what Democrats here do when they're trying to get attention (to their many pork barrel projects).

That statement only proves that you get me completely wrong. I have voted Conservative in every election since I was old enough to vote...and I most likely always will.

Well, that's not for me to contest since I'm not in the booth with you, but I'd say there are myriad opinions between American society and Canadian society with regard to the definition of "Conservative", don't you think?

Why must you always resort to calling me names whenever I disagree with you?

I'm trying to find a "pet" name for you, but your constant Bush bashing makes it difficult.

[audio amateur]

Rich boy is holding his own pretty well here