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  1. #1
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  2. #2
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Tisk, tisk ... illegals ripping off the US taxpayer with the connivance of the IRS.

    A few questions:

    = Why pick on "undocumented workers" in particular? Are they the only ones declaring kids who don't actually live with them? Any stats on the number of legitimate workers who do the same thing?
    = Why imply that the IRS is intentionally ignoring these frauds or specially favoring illegal workers? It cost a money to find and remediate fraudulent tax returns. Does the IRA have the funding? What is the cost/benefit?
    = As I understand, the US tax code is 10,000+ pages, the majority of which specify exceptions and other "tax expenduture" that benefit mostly corporations and wealthy individuals. Again, why single out illegal workers for bashing?

    The slant of these article seems to play to the prejudices and agenda Tea Partiers and those of their ilk.
    Last edited by Feanor; 05-04-2012 at 09:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    = Why pick on "undocumented workers" in particular? Are they the only ones declaring kids who don't actually live with them? Any stats on the number of legitimate workers who do the same thing?
    I know that your not implying that malfeasance on the part of one gruop mitigates malfeasance on the part of another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    = Why imply that the IRS is intentionally ignoring these frauds or specially favoring illegal workers? It cost a money to find and remediate fraudulent tax returns. Does the IRA have the funding? What is the cost/benefit?
    I think the point is that the code is written incorrectly and should be corrected to prevent anyone from taking advantage of the loopholes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    = As I understand, the US tax code is 10,000+ pages...
    We've talked recently about the unweighty and obfuscative nature of codes and laws. It's ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    ...the majority of which specify exceptions and other "tax expenduture" that benefit mostly corporations and wealthy individuals...
    And by that you mean the peopole that are actually paying any income tax at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    The slant of these article seems to play to the prejudices and agenda Tea Partiers and those of their ilk.
    I don't think it's prejudiced to say that all people should play by the same rules. Nor do I think it's prejudiced to say that people who shouldn't legally be here (and, in fact, some who aren't here in any way, shape, or form) should not be able to profit from bureaucratic incompetence. I'd imagine people other than the "Tea Partiers and their ilk" would agree.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    I know that your not implying that malfeasance on the part of one gruop mitigates malfeasance on the part of another. ...
    That's right. Legal residents who declare children who don't live with them are just as guilty as the illegal residents.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    ...
    I think the point is that the code is written incorrectly and should be corrected to prevent anyone from taking advantage of the loopholes. ...
    So I'm confused. Should the tax law be changed so illegal residents don't have to file tax returns or should it be changed so legal residents can no longer get tax rebates for kid who live with them.

    Or should the tax law discriminate between legal and illegal residents? But surely not -- see your first sentence below ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    ...
    I don't think it's prejudiced to say that all people should play by the same rules. Nor do I think it's prejudiced to say that people who shouldn't legally be here (and, in fact, some who aren't here in any way, shape, or form) should not be able to profit from bureaucratic incompetence. ...
    Oh I see: only those who are in the country legally should be able to benefit from bureaucratic incompetence.

  5. #5
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Where we might agree is that illegal residents probably have a much higher incidence of invalid at-home child declarations. That's not surprising, of course, because they typically would typically have very little incentive to file a return otherwise.

    So one might argue that an at-home child declaration in case of an illegal resident return is a "red flag" that ought to warrant further investigation. But that brings us right back to the equal treatment issue.

    Illegal immigration is obviously a large and difficult issue for the USA. Are immigrants in general good for the country? Are illegal immigrants good for the country or at least the economy? I don't know. But I am pretty sure that a significant segment of the economy welcomes, and even depends on, illegal workers. That would be mainly small and medium sized business and farmers who see them as means to lower wages, no benefits, no payroll taxes, and avoidance of labor protection laws. If the US were really serious about reducing illegal workers, it would make is a major civil or even criminal offence to employ illegal workers. Building 20 foot fences and harassing people on street corners isn't going to do the job.

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