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  1. #1
    Forum Regular jeskibuff's Avatar
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    Jun 2002

    Talking Hopes dashed to the ground

    Boy, am I finding goodies galore on DemocraticUnderground.
    In this thread:

    the original poster thinks he found a gem of an article that "explains everything" about the disastrous Bush economy.
    The article, written by Peter Eavis is found at Eavis says dismal things like The crackup won't start happening until the end of 2004 -- after George Bush, the market's favorite for president, has been safely re-elected -- but the coming deluge will usher in a period of global economic malaise and dire losses in financial markets.

    This is JUST what the doctor ordered for original poster Yavin4. He says: "This column explains everything in a nutshell about our current economy and where it's heading. This explains everything from A to Z. It's a must read for anyone that wants to know the truth about where this economy really is and where it's heading:" and "If you get into an economic argument with a freeper refer them to this source."

    I bet this guy was relieved to find something written that predicted the bad news for the economy that he wanted to hear. But some other DUh'ers gave him a little reality check.
    "The guy (Eavis) has a lousy track record."
    "Last year he said Dow down 15% Nasdaq down 30%. He was only off by a tiny bit. (Yeah right)."
    "He was simply wrong."
    "He was wrong (in virtually every respect) on his predictions for Iraq (and keep in mind that this year's predictions are similar predicated on non-economic events)."
    "NOW, virtually every number looks good and there is no question what is going on, but many here insist that it is all lies."
    "Pay no attention to anyone who starts off this year's predictions by trying to explain why last year's predictions were so far off."
    "But to forcast record collapses (a FOURTH straight significant market decline) and get large growth? And have it explained by "well interest rates were at 2% instead of 4%" loses credibility with me."
    "he completely glossed over the role that . . .the changes in capital gains and dividend taxation have played in the rise of the stock market. If you are in the lowest tax bracket, your capital gains tax rate is 5% -- FIVE PERCENT! That itself is incredible. . . Most states have sales taxes that are higher than that."

    Alas...time for poor Yavin4 to keep digging until he finds some tidbit that says what he's hoping it will say...that the Bush economy is a grand failure and all the improving indicators that we're seeing now are just magic tricks, courtesy of David Blaine and David Copperfield.

    Keep digging, Yavin4! Try picking an article next time where the author doesn't provide such an easy link to his last set of miserable predictions!
    Last edited by jeskibuff; 01-05-2004 at 07:48 PM.
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  2. #2
    JSE is offline
    MIA - Until Rich is back! JSE's Avatar
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    Feb 2003
    Wow. Checked out the Democratic Underground site last night for a while. Can you say "Cult", "Childish", "Hypocritical", "Insane", "Pathetic", Etc......

    A few interesting observations about the site I saw in my brief visit.

    1) It seems like everyone on that site will bash the hell out of any conservative for any reason but then turn around and say how it's the conservatives that are the haters. Fact is, the entire Democratic Underground site is a Hate Machine against conservatives. This a actual forum title.

    [U]Bush, Conservatives, and Conservatism[/U]
    Discuss the wacky antics of your favorite conservatives, and pick apart the political philosophy we love to hate.

    Notice the word "Hate"?

    2) They seem to think the "Media" in pro conservative? Are they actually serious about this?

    3) They (site members) are like a pack of Lions. One attacks and then they all jump in for the feeding frenzy. The rest of the pack does not even try to make any valid arguments, they just result to name calling. "Freeper" seems to be their favorite.

    4) A couple actually have hopes of Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo trying to push conservatives out of talk radio. That one really made me chuckle. Janeane Garofalo? Please!

    5) They are still are obsessed with the Florida election.

    6) They think the improving economy is all smoke and mirrors. Darnit! We are all suffering and living in squaller (sp?). Why can't conservatives see this? The booming stock market? Fake! The economy in general? Fake! That money in your pocket? Fake! Fake! Fake!

    7) A universal hatred of Bush. Most can't say why, but boy they can jump on the name calling and hating band wagon.

    8) DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, ever ever ever disagree with their democratic views or god forbid say something remotely positive about Bush or anything or anyone assocoated with him or the conservative party. You will be attacked and your post removed. This site is NOT about freedom of speech in any way, shape or form! You either conform or you are tossed out with the trash. Very democratic?

    Hell, it's actually a rule! Look,

    "We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned."

    Anyway, just a few funny things I notice. This site gives the good democracts out their a bad name. These fanatics seem to have found their "Utopia" in the form of a website. Very sad.

    Last edited by JSE; 01-06-2004 at 08:22 AM.

  3. #3
    Chris's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
    Hey, it's not a forum for different views, that's for sure. But the name should have led on to that. It's a focused group of people sharing similar ideas and opinions, and they don't want opposing political party input disrupting their dialogue. It's the American way - mob rule! It's funny how extremists from both the left and right preach their views, but tend to lose site of the simple freedoms required to make political parties possible in the first place.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular jeskibuff's Avatar
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    Jun 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    It's a focused group of people sharing similar ideas and opinions, and they don't want opposing political party input disrupting their dialogue.
    You got that right! They live in a bubble where their fragile concepts can be protected from any challenge. It's kind of a "The Emperor has no clothes" concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    Can you say "Cult", "Childish", "Hypocritical", "Insane", "Pathetic", Etc......
    I kind of consider "circus freak sideshow" a most accurate description. It's freaky stuff that is SO unbelievable, it's hard to turn your eyes away. It's disgusting, yet entertaining at the same time. Watch the man hammer a nail up his nostril! Look at the maimed bodies on the side of the road! But they're darn tootin' proud of their freakishness and enjoy when they make the news, hoping to gain more followers. I must admit the activity on the site is at a frenzied pace! It's almost impossible to keep up!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    They (site members) are like a pack of Lions. One attacks and then they all jump in for the feeding frenzy.
    It's really quite cowardly. Let the bravest "lion" initiate the attack, then they ALL beat their chests as triumphant conquerors. Just like Daniel Pearl's captors did. The trouble is, this pack of lions brings down prey only in their imagination!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    They seem to think the "Media" i(s) pro conservative? Are they actually serious about this?
    When the media refuses to give credence to the DU stupidity, all they can do is accuse them of being part of the whole conspiracy. "They've been bought out, too!", they say. DUh'ers just couldn't admit that there's absolutely no credibility to their stupid theories, could they?

    Some other observations:
    According to DUh'ers, everyone else in the world (except liberals) are the fools because (supposedly) *they* don't watch C-SPAN...*they* may not follow politics closely...*they* listen to "FAUX" news...*they* don't have the "intellect" that the DUh'ers have. That last one is a cackler, isn't it? If they THINK they're so intellectual, why are they so afraid to engage in debate with conservatives? Because they LOSE handily every time, that's why! I was involved in many debates with these kinds of people who had the temerity to stray away from the safety of sites like DU. We started a thread to document each instance where they got cornered. The site (DealOfDay) has just purged that whole forum (called "Hot Potatoes"), but I had saved some of the better threads to my hard drive.
    On that forum, I posed a question to a DU "graduate" soon after Iraq was liberated. She had complained that things were terrible for the Iraqis because they had no power for A/C and water was scarce. I asked her: "If you were given the choice between life imprisonment with certain torture or freedom with some hardships, WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE??"
    She replied: "So we are to make the choices for the Iraqis? Is that what you are saying? 2 THEIR OWN country...Live the way we want you to, or, remember the times of Saddam? Huh? Didn't hear you, and show some respect for The Occupation Force. You want to end up in Guantanamo Bay? So take the electricity the few hours you get it (in 100+degrees). Things could be much worse for you...remember Saddam? MAKE your CHOICE...OUR way??? That's better....Next!!!"
    I replied: "First of all, your response DOES NOT answer that simple question. The question had NOTHING to do with Iraq and has EVERYTHING TO DO with YOU."
    She couldn't answer the question on a personal level. She could only speak for the Iraqis (what SHE thought was best for the Iraqis), which was to continue to live under harsh dictatorship rather than living through several weeks without power and running water with the hope that things would get better. And if you noticed, whenever she spoke, she babbled with a great degree of incoherency.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, ever ever ever disagree with their democratic views or god forbid say something remotely positive about Bush or anything or anyone assoc(i)ated with him or the conservative party. You will be attacked and your post removed.
    True to a great extent. There have been things posted that I'm surprised didn't get deleted. Maybe those posts weren't reported or weren't offensive enough. Maybe the poster's views are tolerated if the poster does ten "I Hate Bush, I Hate Bush" chants, and he's then rewarded with a little slack. Most likely, it's just pushing the envelope enough so that the DUh'ers can use it to say "See, we DO tolerate dissenting opinions". Uh...sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    ...A universal hatred of Bush. Most can't say why, but boy they can jump on the name calling and hating band wagon.
    Once I find it again, I'll post the link to a thread where they rip apart Laura Bush because of the clothes she wears. This, from the party who supposedly hinges on speeches from MLK, Jr., like "...where they will be judged not on the color of their skin (appearances) but on the CONTENT of their character...". But sheer, undeserved hatred of the Bush administration is the source of all this madness, I believe. According to most of the DUh'ers, Bush has never done anything right in his entire life. They hated him before he became President, simply because he was a Republican and professed the Christian faith. They hated him during the 2000 election fiasco. Everything was his fault and Gore was without fault! According to them, he caused the economy to falter before he took office! He "talked it down" (Clinton came up with that gem). Once GWB was in the Oval Office, he was then responsible for everything bad that ever happened to the U.S., including decades ago when the U.S. began losing jobs and market share to foreign countries. Bush got the blame for Enron. He got the blame for 9/11. Somehow, they believe he's the stupidest man on Earth, yet they're convinced he's shrewd enought to get away with the most elaborate conspiracies ever conceived.

    For these people to admit that GWB got something right would be nothing short of heresy. Therefore, everything he does has to fit into an evil scheme, and this is where conspiracy theories are essential. "GWB's out to steal our rights. He's out to conquer the world and grab up all the oil. He plotted 9/11 and used Osama as a scapegoat" (you think I'm kidding? See all the topics at There's a few people on DU that scoff at some of these "tinfoil hat" (their term) theories. I'd give kudos to some of THESE scoffers, but then they reveal that they themselves subscribe to somewhat lesser moronic theories.

    Here are just some of these theories:

    When their bizarre theories aren't published by the media, the DUh'ers throw a rant. Here's just one of many: The DUh'ers have no idea that "the whoremedia" (don't they have such endearing terms?) would lose all credibility if they were to consider some of these lunatic theories as plausible and give them airtime.

    Look at how proud DUh'ers are when they "throw" a poll in their direction. Do you think they're at all interested in pursuing the truth? One poster proudly proclaims "wow, this poll...was DU'd." Another said: "I think he's been DU'd" as the results QUICKLY went from 66-33 (2 to 1) to 30-70%. As I write this, the numbers have bounced back to 63-37 in Arnold's favor. To get to the results, I voted again, which means there were no "vote-once" controls in place. But the key idea here is how the DUh'ers want the public to perceive reality...which is totally out of step with reality itself. Despite their efforts, perhaps they didn't have the numbers to go up against thousands of "real" voters.

    I will happily do my part as a carnival barker to point out the lunacy of DU. They crave the attention and I'll be more than happy to give them more. In their little fantasy bubble, they believe they have all the answers. Unless you believe in things like invisible dirigibles that snatch 757s out of the sky, you might disagree. I think DU shows everybody how really out of touch they are with reality, and I think most intelligent people would agree with me. Should we listen to these kinds of people when they try to tell us who should be best to lead our country? I'll listen to them, but only for my personal entertainment!
    Last edited by jeskibuff; 01-07-2004 at 08:29 AM.
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