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  1. #51
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I saw that system at the Geneva Motor Show at the Pagani stand earlier this year. They were also exposing a VERY limited edition of the Zonda (only 5 are/will be made).
    Don't find the system good looking at all... The car however, is a different matter
    I happened to be browsing the pictures I took at the show, and realised the Pagani audio system was also in the picture with the Zonda.
    The picture was taken with my 3 year old Sony Ericsson K800i phone.
    Dang! Great new sportscar-pagani.jpg

    I also got to have a go on a Formula 1 simulator, which was pretty sweet
    Dang! Great new sportscar-formula.jpg

  2. #52
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I happened to be browsing the pictures I took at the show, and realised the Pagani audio system was also in the picture with the Zonda.
    Lots of carbon fiber I see!

    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I also got to have a go on a Formula 1 simulator, which was pretty sweet.
    Cool. I understand that you get in first, then put on the steering wheel! I really enjoyed watching (and hearing) two of the F1 races at Indy back in 2001 and 2003. Their sound is very different from the seven liter motors at Can-Am races I used to watch at Road Atlanta.

    rw

  3. #53
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Lots of carbon fiber I see!
    Carbon fiber seems to be the norm in modern day supercars. It proves to be long lasting and lightweight.
    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Cool. I understand that you get in first, then put on the steering wheel! I really enjoyed watching (and hearing) two of the F1 races at Indy back in 2001 and 2003. Their sound is very different from the seven liter motors at Can-Am races I used to watch at Road Atlanta.

    rw
    In a real F1 yes you would enter with the steering wheel off, but not in this simulator.
    F1s have very high revving engines. In 2005 their V10s were putting out in excess of 900 horses at 18000 rpm. Imagine this with no silencer... They are incredibly fast cars. In fact they have been detuned since, to about 700 BHP with V8s instead of V10s, stating that the V10s were simply too powerful.
    Anyway back in summer '06, I heard on the radio about a Ferrari get together on a Sunday after church. This had been taking place for a couple days already, in the town of Montreux (Montreux jazz festival anyone?), which is the other side of the lake from Geneva. So I rang my best buddy who happens to be a car nut just as I am. So we rolled down there (about 45 min drive) and lived one of the best car moments of our lives, despite not being at the wheel.
    There were Ferrari of all types, from the classic 288 GTO to the Enzo FXX (which is not even road legal by the way.) A circuit had been traced on the town center roads, with barriers to keep people off the 'track'. They had a couple Ferrari F1s unleashed. It was my first contact with a fired up F1. The first time it passed (I was about 3 meters from it), it downshifted, then miss-fired a few times which took me by surprise and scared me by how ridiculously loud it was. After that they had myriads of Ferraris with their owners driving around, it was amazing.
    I would add a couple pictures but the stupid attachement link isn't loading...
    In the mean time here is an incredible video that really shows off an F1 car. It's part of Fifth Gear an English car review program which stars Tiff Needell, a driver who had a short spell in Formula 1 racing back in the early '90s. It is part 2 of the video, there is also a part 1 if you want to see it. I was in awe the first time I watched it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkC70iFcJ04&NR=1
    Last edited by audio amateur; 12-09-2009 at 04:43 PM.

  4. #54
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    This had been taking place for a couple days already, in the town of Montreux (Montreux jazz festival anyone?)
    I can hear "Deep Purple's" Smoke on the Water right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    It was my first contact with a fired up F1. The first time it passed (I was about 3 meters from it), it downshifted, then miss-fired a few times which took me by surprise and scared me by how ridiculously loud it was.
    Yeah, earplugs are really a necessity for watching an entire race. Especially when there are five cars in close proximity all accelerating at the same time. The sound is seductive, but I treasure my HF response.

    rw

  5. #55
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Disappointed and rather sad is my reaction to much of the response to this thread.

    For me it was first-and-formost the esthetic of the McLaren designed that appealed to me and motivate my posting. Instead, at least coming from seveal people, it has degenerated into techological, or worse still, macho brute machine drooling.

    Again, while the technology of the McLaren is impecable, it was the visual design that appealed to me -- surely a level above such dog-ugly-ass vehicles as the Mercedes SLS or Porche Panamera. Oh, you sad, sad, dismal philistines.



  6. #56
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    Again, the new McLaren is too bland for my taste. I do love the original though.
    My favourite supercar is and remains, the Lamborghini Murcielago



    and its younger sibling, the LP640
    Last edited by audio amateur; 12-10-2009 at 01:32 PM.

  7. #57
    nightflier
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    Well I wanted to know a bit more about the Panamera so I went to the dealer to check it out. They only had one, a black one with automatic transmission and a bunch of other expensive add-ons. Base price is $90K, but you won't walk out of there for less than $100K, and that's before taxes. I did get to drive it (huge surprise since they are real stingy about this). Well I'm not really sold on the looks, but for a 4-door that's one freaking bad-a$$ handling automobile. To get that kind of performance from a 4-door, you'd be looking at the Italian stuff for at least twice the price. Effortless acceleration and handling and, for a Porsche, a surprisingly quite cabin - they did their homework and listened to the all those SoCal suckers who bought into the Cayenne. The Panamera still has that sporty feel, though and while I couldn't really push it, it was a very fine car - I actually like it better than the BMW 6 (which in my book also looks awkward).

    The salesman also made it clear that the Panamera is not made to be flashy on the outside, since that's kind of unpopular these days, but follows more the Bentley/Aston model of putting all the good stuff inside and under the hood. That's not really my bag, since I do appreciate a fine looking car and don't care so much for the uber-luxury fluff that is typically slathered inside these cars, but I guess in this economy, that's probably a safe bet. I thought it was cute how he compared the Panamera with Bentley and Aston.

    P.S. The salesman also said that finding one of these with a stick will be next to impossible. I had to remind him that we were talking about Porsche, here, but that made little or no impression. So this is definitely for the Cayenne crowd, and thus, not really for me.

  8. #58
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    You in the market for a car Nightflier?
    It's cool that you got to drive one. Do you know what engine it had?

  9. #59
    nightflier
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    Yes, I'm trying to trade in a Saab 9-5, stick. It's stock, but fully loaded with everything the company had to throw into it and has very low miles. I got a great deal because it was a stick. Unfortunately, the company's not looking very good right now. I thought that by buying an American-backed, but foreign-designed and assembled car, I'd have the best of both worlds. That's one purchase I now regret, but who could have known three years ago when everything was pointing up?

    Come to think of it, I should have traded-in when the Koenigsegg deal was still valid, but I really thought with them being Sweedish, that they would stick to their agreement. Last time I ever look on yellow-livered Koenigsegg in a positive light. I hope it comes back to bite those turn-coats in the a$$.

    The Panamera was the base model, the S. The 4S and Turbo are even more expensive, and I think the law of diminishing returns would apply even more to those models. If I did still want to consider the Panamera, it would be the base model.

  10. #60
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    That's a lot of money for a car. I guess it depends how much you have, how much your willing to spend and ultimately what you want...
    I'm glad some people in the US still prefer stick. Are you looking for any car/type of car in particular?

    Just going to add that the Turbo may be more expensive, but a lot faster.

  11. #61
    nightflier
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    Well the Panamera was more a curiosity. I can afford it, but that wouldn't exactly be sensible. I guess I'm looking for a 4-door sports car that has a manual transmission in the same class as the Saab. I have no issues buying used (although with a stick, I'd have my mechanic look it over first - been burned there already), but if I buy new before the end of the year, I pay almost no taxes. Not too comfortable buying American right now, but maybe there's something there. The socially-responsible angel on my right shoulder says buy a hybrid (which will include more tax incentives), but the little devil on my other shoulder reminds me that this will take years to pay for itself and I can pretty much forget about performance.

    I really don't want to dump the Saab which still has the best performing 4 cyl engine I've ever driven, but I'm also pretty friggin pissed that no one is picking up the brand and that the stuck-up Sweedes have no issues letting it get torn to pieces by money-grubbing investors. And watching GM's posturing on it's "intellectual property rights" is kind of like complaining about bird sh1t on the windshield as the car's driving off a cliff.

  12. #62
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    Given you can afford a Panamera, there are so many options you could choose from (even well under that budget). If you want some ideas/suggestions, feel free to PM. I'd be more than happy to shop with your money:-)

  13. #63
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Welll, Doggies!!!

    I think Jethro got this 'un right!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

  14. #64
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Again, the new McLaren is too bland for my taste. I do love the original though.
    My favourite supercar is and remains, the Lamborghini Murcielago
    ...
    and its younger sibling, the LP640
    Those Lamborginis are gorgeous, no debate. To me they are almost as good looking as the McLaren.

    I suspect that I know what you mean when you describe the McLaren as "bland". I think you mean lacking a "edge", a more masculine in sensibility than the McLaren. Laborghinis, to my eye, are a compromise between the smoother, almost feminine grace of the McLaren and the purely masculine "grunt" of the Mercedes SLS. The SLS is totally lacking any elegance or grace, but then no doubt many are looking for macho rather than elegance.

  15. #65
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Well the Panamera was more a curiosity. I can afford it, but that wouldn't exactly be sensible. I guess I'm looking for a 4-door sports car that has a manual transmission in the same class as the Saab. I have no issues buying used (although with a stick, I'd have my mechanic look it over first - been burned there already), but if I buy new before the end of the year, I pay almost no taxes. Not too comfortable buying American right now, but maybe there's something there. The socially-responsible angel on my right shoulder says buy a hybrid (which will include more tax incentives), but the little devil on my other shoulder reminds me that this will take years to pay for itself and I can pretty much forget about performance.

    I really don't want to dump the Saab which still has the best performing 4 cyl engine I've ever driven, but I'm also pretty friggin pissed that no one is picking up the brand and that the stuck-up Sweedes have no issues letting it get torn to pieces by money-grubbing investors. And watching GM's posturing on it's "intellectual property rights" is kind of like complaining about bird sh1t on the windshield as the car's driving off a cliff.
    How about IS350 or IS-F. You probably can't afford LFA, but IS350 is a great machine. Very comfortable and racy. I really hate my Scion TC..... what a piece of junk. It's just a noisy version of Celica with Camry engine.

  16. #66
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    I'm not sure about the IS-F. I think the BMW M3 or Audi RS4 are better alternatives. But I guess the Lexus is always worth checking out.

  17. #67
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  18. #68
    nightflier
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    aa, I applaud all the research & performance, but I do hope they do something about the ho-hum looks of the new McLaren. Still looks like an Eclipse to me and that can't be good on the showroom floor. From across the street, people can't see the badge and a distinctive look is key, especially at those price points.

    P.S. I know I said I was going to sell my Saab, but now that it's a Saab-Spyker, I think I'm going to hold onto it for now. Who knows, maybe I'll save up and buy one of these - I don't think this will be mistaken for an Eclipse, even in the rear-view mirror:



    Actually, I like the convertible even better, and seems to fit in nicely here in SoCal (78 degrees this past weekend - you'd think it was early summer):


  19. #69
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    NF, i doubt people will mistake the McLaren for Eclipse. The car is uber wide, has all sort of air intakes and is probably half the height of the Eclipse. Cars usually look radically different in person, and by different I mean better. The first time I saw the Audi R8 in photo I wasn't enthrawled, but I saw one on the road the other day and it looked amazing (not that it was the first time I see it on road).

    As for your Saab, there's nothing wrong with keeping it longer if you're enjoying it. It will give you time to look up more options and make a better decision in the future.

    I don't believe Ive seen any Spykers on the road, but I have at the Geneva Motor Show. I also watched a review of one of them by Top Gear. It was a little too small (physically) for my liking. Here it is, typical Clarkson once again (a little offending in bits I find).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwXmPuSFNc

    Saver your pennies though, a new Honda (Acura) NSX is coming out, seen here lapping the Nurburgring. It sounds absolutely mental!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0OTEZDAb9c

  20. #70
    nightflier
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    Honda/Acura? It better not have that stupid smile on the front grille! Actually, that one in the video looks more like an Accord than it should. These car manufacturers really need to improve on the design side of things. Honda/Acura is at the bottom of my list when it comes to looks.

    Yes, I know the Spykers aren't everyone's cup of tea. They don't really claim to be the fastest, best performing cars either, but they make up for that in exclusivity and style. I realize that McLaren looks a bit better than the Eclipse, but not by enough to stand out, IMO. That's my whole point. The Panamera is another one that completely pissed next to the pot - no matter what the dealer said. You can add most of the Japanese makers to that list too. Honda/Acura? Well I'm sure their sales figures (even adjusted for the economy) will make them wise-up. Subaru? Still has a waaayyys to go - they're trying, but considering how conservative the company is, things are not going to change very soon. Mitsubishi? Mitsu-who? Even Toyota/Lexus designs are getting a bit long in the tooth.

    The point is, if you're going to spend $75K+ on a car, then it better not look like every other car on your street. If you're going to spend $150K+, it better like look the shizzle in the whole damn town, and once we get to McLaren and up territory, it better look like Halle Berry at a computer programmer's convention. I'm sorry, but I'm seeing none of that.

  21. #71
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    I Hear what you're saying. Problem is, it's not as easy as drawing a good looking car and then start production. There's quite a bit of technical issues that you have to overcome, such as safety and technical issues (weight ratio, chassis, engine). Then you have the cabin in which you need to make sure there' s adequate head room leg room etc etc. There are so many things to consider when designing a car that limit the freedom of simply creating a work of art on the drawing board and then moving it to the production line.

    IMO, the biggest bargain you can currently have are the Corvette ZR1 and the Nissan Skyline GTR. I do like the looks of the Corvette and the GTR's have grown on me. Both are absolute animals on the track.

  22. #72
    nightflier
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    Hence the reason they should cost a little more. No one said this was easy, but that is just the point when you get to the $100+ cars. Surely for that kind of money a car should look like it performs.

  23. #73
    nightflier
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    Saab-Spyker 9+ Concept

    Move over Tesla, Panamera, R8, and that wilting Lotus. Granted it's just a concept sketch at this point, but check out the lines on this beauty:

    9+Concept Car

    (Sorry, they're Flash images and I couldn't link directly)

  24. #74
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    Lamborghinis with their scissor doors are simple gorgeous. Those swing up doors definitely give that extra stunning look to their sports cars. Nothing beats that!!

  25. #75
    nightflier
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    Lamborghini isn't the only car manufacturer to use scissor doors. Also, in some Lamborghinis it actually makes getting in & out less than ideal. I know we're nitpicking here, but if you're going to spend $200K for a car, they could at least engineer this a little better.

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