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Originally Posted by topspeed
:lol: You were right about the music! I'm a rocker.
What? You listen to music in your rocking chair? Man, I thought Melvin was old. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Sir Speedy w/tech-in-trunk
While I appreciate the video, I have to tell you I despise ricers and hate street racing with a vengence. If some morons want to whip it out to see whose is bigger, do it on a track where they don't endanger innocents on the roadways. Blasting in and out of traffic on a public road is the height of stupidity. Did you notice how the G35 braked suddenly and the M3 almost ran up its backside on the freeway? There's a pileup waiting to happen :rolleyes:.
I've never street raced; took it to the track on Friday nights, but IMO the reason I got three speeding tickets in Plano in two years was because of the youngsters (using that term loosely) who would race their camaros and T/A's that their Mommy's and Daddy's gave them on the streets, which then led the PD to put their radar guns on any F-body that came through town.
I was at the mall over the weekend and there was a G37 parking inside. I was never a rice fanboy either but I gotta tell ya, all that elegance and styling wrapped around 330 hp sure is sweet. If I had Speedy's money that car would be waaaay up there on the to-do list.
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
I've never street raced; took it to the track on Friday nights, but IMO the reason I got three speeding tickets in Plano in two years was because of the youngsters (using that term loosely) who would race their camaros and T/A's that their Mommy's and Daddy's gave them on the streets, which then led the PD to put their radar guns on any F-body that came through town.
What kind of lame-ass rationalization is that?! The reason you got three speeding tickets in two years is because you were driving too fast.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
:lol: You were right about the music! I'm a rocker.
While I appreciate the video, I have to tell you I despise ricers and hate street racing with a vengence. If some morons want to whip it out to see whose is bigger, do it on a track where they don't endanger innocents on the roadways. Blasting in and out of traffic on a public road is the height of stupidity. Did you notice how the G35 braked suddenly and the M3 almost ran up its backside on the freeway? There's a pileup waiting to happen :rolleyes:
I totally get your point, but apart from that sudden breaking, I felt they were relatively civilised, considering what they were doing. If it was mostly a one off thing, IMO it wasn't too badly done. I'm pretty sure it was mostly for the show off of the vid, than wanting to know who is who. But rest assured I don't like that stuff in general. Simply this vid had it all:)
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If you really want to see what an M3 can do, here's a video with a soundtrack provided by my favorite band: Straight Cut Gears. Turn up your speakers.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! I was waiting to hear the music, and then I looked at the band name a second time, and realise what you were talking about!:cornut: haha the funny thing is, i'm actually not a fan of that straight-cut transmission whine, I MUCH prefer the street M3's raaaasp, as you already know:D:D I've alrady seen that vid actually, great stuff the GTR, except for the whine I find it covers the V8's beautiful symphony.
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Edit: After re-reading my post, it may come off as directed towards you, which it most certainly is not. No offense was intended.
No worries at all.
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BTW, the 8 grand was to replace the entire transmission; gearset, casing, etc. I lost third gear downshifting from 6th before a freeway onramp right before Christmas. Nothing quite like coasting through a huge onramp unable to grab a gear...any gear...all the while 18 wheelers are barreling down on you! FunFunFun!~
Sounds horrible. I bet you were pretty darn happy to have it covered. But how did you manage that? Down-shift way too early? (I'd imagine it had some kind of over-rev limit), or were you stuck in a certain gear & stalled? Hmm.. well if you had a manual, you wouldn't have had those problems:D
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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
What kind of lame-ass rationalization is that?! The reason you got three speeding tickets in two years is because you were driving too fast.
Number one, it's easy to blame kids; number two, Plano cops are jerks; number three, the sun was in my eyes; number four, there was a hole in my glove; number five... "I never do anything wrong!" :cornut:
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Ummm... AA, he has a manual. When he says "grab a gear, any gear", he doesn't mean grab one that fell outta his tranny and onto the ground behind him.
He He snicker snicker.
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
Ummm... AA, he has a manual. When he says "grab a gear, any gear", he doesn't mean grab one that fell outta his tranny and onto the ground behind him.
He He snicker snicker.
It's a semi-automatic transmission, not manual:)
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Originally Posted by AA
But how did you manage that? Down-shift way too early? (I'd imagine it had some kind of over-rev limit), or were you stuck in a certain gear & stalled?
I approched the onramp at maybe 70mph, flicked the left paddle three times for a triple downshift to 3rd and got nothing but a flashing "3" on the shift indicator and zero motive force. It engaged the clutch but didn't shift to 5th, didn't shift to 4th, didn't do a damn thing but leave me hanging. When it finally engaged at the top of the ramp, I was in 2nd gear at maybe 6000rpm. I tried to upshift to 3rd but it skipped right into 4th and about 2500rpm. From that point forward, 3rd gear was but a memory. For all I knew, Rich was right and it's somewhere on the side of that onramp!
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Originally Posted by Captain Obvious
Hmm.. well if you had a manual, you wouldn't have had those problems
Indeed. This is the last paddle shifter I will ever own.
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Originally Posted by Points? I don't need no stinkin' points!
Number one, it's easy to blame kids; number two, Plano cops are jerks; number three, the sun was in my eyes; number four, there was a hole in my glove; number five... "I never do anything wrong!"
:lol: :lol: Valentine One is your friend, Rich. Find it. Buy it. Love it.
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Speedy, I could buy a speaker for the price of wonna those things. I was always happy with my Passport detectors, until they broke. And I know what you're going to say... I know the whole Valentine vs passport deal, so save the strain on your finger muscles okay? :smilewinkgrin:
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Well, after much debating, test driving and researching I ended up ordering another Escape today. As much as I liked some of the other vehicles that I test drove, in particular the Sante Fe and the Forester, in the end Ford was once again the best value for the money. I was struggling between the Fusion and another Escape. Hubby and I went and test drove both vehicles again today. Once I got into the Escape, it just felt right. The Fusion is a beautiful car...but I love my Escape and I realized today that I'm not ready to give it up.
My lease isn't up until May so I'm early enough to custom order the exact features that I want. My favourite feature? The audiophile stereo system of course. :)
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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
My lease isn't up until May so I'm early enough to custom order the exact features that I want. My favourite feature? The audiophile stereo system of course. :)
Cool...we're looking at getting something similar. Never thought I'd be in a SUV or truck, but this Canadian winter makes driving in a japanese designed car pretty impractical.
Honda's don't handle so well in 4 feet of snow...who knew?
What is it about the Escape you like? Price is pretty nice.
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The most important feature about the Escape is that I trust it. I have driven it in all kinds of weather conditions. Snow, ice, slush, a rainstorm that was so black you couldn't see the tail lights of the car in front of you, and a flash flood where I was cruising through three feet of water and veering around stalled cars to get home. It never, never let me down. Now some of those weather conditions are unusual and I'm not likely to experience them again (the storm and the flood) but if I do, I won't be worried.
Some of the other features that I like are:
Drive. The Escape is big, but not so big that it feels like a truck. It still drives like a car with a very smooth suspension. The turning radius could be a little tighter, but otherwise it's a nice drive. I have the V6 engine. I find that the Escape is too heavy for the 4 cylinder engine. My current Escape is also 4WD. Since I’m no longer a travelling saleswoman and won’t be doing the same kind of Northern driving that I used to, I just ordered FWD on the new one.
The seats. I have a bad back and I find the seats of the Escape very firm and very comfortable even on long drives. I have a brother who is 6’4” and is comfortable sitting in the back seat of my car.
Access to the back storage compartment. You can access the 'trunk' through the back liftgate, the back window or the back seat by popping open the fold down seat and tossing stuff into the back through the opening that creates. A handy feature which I often use when I'm backed into a parking spot and don't have room to lift the back liftgate.
Aesthetics. I like the way the Escape looks. I’m not a big fan of the new body but the interior is very nice with good quality cloth on the seats that won’t look worn after a few years.
And, of course, price. Because I’m leasing, I would have to lease the Sante Fe or Forester for four years to get the same monthly payment that I have with Ford for three years.
My only complaint on the Escape is that I couldn't get heated side mirrors without also getting leather seats. The Fusion came with heated mirrors even with the cloth seats.
I know a lot of people aren't fans of Ford vehicles, but this will be my fifth Ford, and my husband drives a 2001 Ford Ranger. We have never had any problems with our cars.
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Well I'm a little late to the thread but FWIW leasng is generally a bad deal depending on your driving habits and tax/business situation. However if you like to get in and out of cars on a regular basis and have intention of owning a car beyond 3 years it can make sense. No offense to Ford people if you are in love with Fords then a lease makes sense because they generally don't "age" well versus a lot of the foreign competition. I say this as a person involved in the automotive/insurance industry who has dealt with thousands of different make/models over the years. I have had the opportunity to drive on several occasions both the Mazda 3 and the Fusion and was impressed with their handling and power trains.
On a somewhat related note as someone originally from Michigan I would dearly love to see the domestic manufacturers come back to their past glory. Unfortunately I think management is all too often short sighted and driven by the price of their stock rather than a desire to design and build great cars again.
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Congrats on your new Escape, FA! :thumbsup: The Escape is the best cute/ute in my mind because it is so honest. It doesn't try to be a sports car, it doesn't pretend to be a luxury sedan. It's a sport ute and does exactly what it's supposed to...and does it very well indeed.
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Originally Posted by thekid
On a somewhat related note as someone originally from Michigan I would dearly love to see the domestic manufacturers come back to their past glory. Unfortunately I think management is all too often short sighted and driven by the price of their stock rather than a desire to design and build great cars again.
The renaissance is happening right now. :) Under "Ultimate Car Guy" Bob Lutz, GM has brought us the Malibu, 'Vette, Tahoe Hybrid, CTS, and G8 GT to name but a few. All are world class cars. I drove a Fusion all last week while at a business conference and was mightily impressed with not only the quality, but also the driving dynamics of that car (Sync was pretty damn cool, too). The Mustang is the best selling "sports car" in the US and the new F150 should easily fend off the challenge from the cooly received Tundra. Chrysler is the one I'm worried about and it is becoming more and more likely Cerberus will do what they've done with many of their other holdings: chop and drop.
GM has figured out it's all about the product. Ford is getting there (check out the new Verve). Chrysler is clueless.
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Originally Posted by 66Lincoln
How do you guys feel about cars going green? Chrysler is currently under construction with a certified green dealership in Florida.
It's more marketing than innovation at this point. I have no problem with making cars more friendly to the environment (Tesla anyone?), but at this point even "hybrids" aren't very green when you consider the cost involved with making the batteries, shipping them to assembly plants, the disposition of the said batteries, etc. That process will leave a bigger carbon footprint than any Corrolla or Focus.
Unfortunately, many people buy hybrids just so they can wear their conscious on their sleeves like their favorite Hollywood hypocrit...er, actor; "Look at me! I'm going to save the Earth one gallon at a time, just like George Clooney! Same color, too!" Whereas a chrome "V12" on the decklid used to impart instant status, today you need a little green leaf and the magical "hybrid" scrawled across the flank.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
The renaissance is happening right now. :) Under "Ultimate Car Guy" Bob Lutz, GM has brought us the Malibu, 'Vette, Tahoe Hybrid, CTS, and G8 GT to name but a few. All are world class cars.
Amazing how quickly GM has turned things around. It took them a long time to get their product quality anywhere close to industry averages, and some of their individual plants (most notably their Buick and Cadillac plants and the NUMMI facility they jointly operate with Toyota) now rank among the world's best. Problem is that they might have cut down the failure rates, but the driving experience with most of their cars was still pretty bad. Seems that they've gotten around to now putting the driver first, and that bodes well for their fortunes.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
Chrysler is the one I'm worried about and it is becoming more and more likely Cerberus will do what they've done with many of their other holdings: chop and drop.
GM has figured out it's all about the product. Ford is getting there (check out the new Verve). Chrysler is clueless.
Chrysler just announced a two-week companywide shut down over the summer. I guess this is more extensive than the normal summer plant retooling shut downs in preparation for the next model year. Things aren't looking good for them.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080313/...er_shutdown_dc
They're even permanently shutting down their San Diego design center, where some of the company's best designs over the past 20+ years came from. That seems to signify that Chrysler does not want to regain its competitive edge anytime soon. The importance of the California market at setting trends for the auto industry as a whole is the reason why so many auto makers opened design centers in Cali. For years, it gave Toyota (which opened their Calty design studio in Newport Beach in the mid-70s) an ear to the ground that other automakers did not have.
Wasn't too long ago with the buzz from the PT Cruiser and the 300 that Chrysler was the best positioned U.S. carmaker. I guess it only takes one model cycle for things to go south in a hurry -- case in point, Volkswagen. Or for things to turn around for the better -- case in point, Mazda.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
It's more marketing than innovation at this point. I have no problem with making cars more friendly to the environment (Tesla anyone?), but at this point even "hybrids" aren't very green when you consider the cost involved with making the batteries, shipping them to assembly plants, the disposition of the said batteries, etc. That process will leave a bigger carbon footprint than any Corrolla or Focus.
I would agree with you in regard to the manufacturing process, there are a lot of processes that people don't consider in assessing the impact of a hybrid. But, once that car gets out into a consumer's hands, then the carbon footprint is likely much smaller than a typical car over the entire life of the vehicle.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
Unfortunately, many people buy hybrids just so they can wear their conscious on their sleeves like their favorite Hollywood hypocrit...er, actor; "Look at me! I'm going to save the Earth one gallon at a time, just like George Clooney! Same color, too!" Whereas a chrome "V12" on the decklid used to impart instant status, today you need a little green leaf and the magical "hybrid" scrawled across the flank.
I wouldn't go that far. My retired parents are ready to buy a Prius because they're pennypinchers and want that 40+ MPG. It would be a huge stretch to call them environmentalists -- I have a hard enough time just getting them to dump their aluminum cans into the recycling bin rather than the trash -- but they are certainly cheap! They currently drive a Camry, and were looking to get another one. But, with gas heading towards $4 a gallon, and my mom's retiree friends telling her how much they love their Prius, that's where they're headed. They could care less if that Prius has got the carbon footprint of a Gulfstream jet -- if it cuts their gas costs in half, they want it.
Among people I know in the Bay Area (and down in L.A. as well), the hybrid's real status symbol's not the green leaf logo, but rather that DMV sticker that lets them drive in the carpool lane! :cool:
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Originally Posted by 66Lincoln
How do you guys feel about cars going green? Chrysler is currently under construction with a certified green dealership in Florida.
I would guess that a certified green dealer has more to do with their business operations than the cars they sell. Some counties have green certification programs for businesses. It basically involves having programs in place to reduce waste, lower energy usage, use recycled/renewable building materials, use more renewables, etc. Nothing wrong with a business that wants to commit to green certification. But you do need to look further at what's getting certified, since I doubt that dealership will refuse a customer that wants a Chrysler 300 with a gas guzzling 6.1L SRT Hemi!
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Originally Posted by wooch
I wouldn't go that far. My retired parents are ready to buy a Prius because they're pennypinchers and want that 40+ MPG. It would be a huge stretch to call them environmentalists -- I have a hard enough time just getting them to dump their aluminum cans into the recycling bin rather than the trash -- but they are certainly cheap! They currently drive a Camry, and were looking to get another one. But, with gas heading towards $4 a gallon, and my mom's retiree friends telling her how much they love their Prius, that's where they're headed. They could care less if that Prius has got the carbon footprint of a Gulfstream jet -- if it cuts their gas costs in half, they want it.
Naturally, there are people that buy hybrids for their efficiency. My cousin has a Prius and he's far from a prima dona. Heck, he works for the Board of Education and is as conservative as they come. A while back, SouthPark did a skit about hybrid drivers and while it was extreme as only they can do it, the show wasn't far off the mark. Your parents are normal. My cousin is normal. Far too many hybrid drivers are into it for the status. Truth.
Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for making more efficient cars even though my car is the anti-Prius (Prius sacrifices everything for efficiency, M3 sacrifices everything for performance). Take the Tesla I mentioned: Pure plug-in electric, 0-60 in 4.4s, 250 miles per charge. I'd buy that in a heartbeat if it didn't cost $90k. Honda has the first fuel cell powered vehicles on the planet in circulation in LA right now. $600/mo to lease a real car that releases nothing more than water vapor at the tailpipe. Of course, there are only 2 refueling stations in the entire Southland, but it's still a step in the right direction. Slowly but surely, we're getting there.
BTW, before the parental units skip on down to Toyota, they may want to stop by Volkswagen. The '09 Jetta TDI is projected at 45-50mpg and puts out...get this...140hp and 235 lb ft of torque! That, my good friend, is serious off-the-line oomph and it'll be priced the same as the gasoline Jetta. Clean diesels are going to give hybrids a run for their money. Watch.
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Among people I know in the Bay Area (and down in L.A. as well), the hybrid's real status symbol's not the green leaf logo, but rather that DMV sticker that lets them drive in the carpool lane!
You're serious? They let hybrid's go solo in the carpool lane?!? If the hybrid's advantage is better efficiency with less detriment to the environment, shouldn't they make hybrids carry a full load instead of allowing solo's?
That's the DMV for ya!
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Originally Posted by topspeed
Congrats on your new Escape, FA! :thumbsup: The Escape is the best cute/ute in my mind because it is so honest. It doesn't try to be a sports car, it doesn't pretend to be a luxury sedan. It's a sport ute and does exactly what it's supposed to...and does it very well indeed.
Oh brother. :rolleyes: Like it's the family pet?
The Infinty FX isn't a pretender either. It's sleek, luxurious and HAULS AZZ!!!
Oh and... you can put your utilities in it too.
:D
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Originally Posted by topspeed
Naturally, there are people that buy hybrids for their efficiency. My cousin has a Prius and he's far from a prima dona. Heck, he works for the Board of Education and is as conservative as they come. A while back, SouthPark did a skit about hybrid drivers and while it was extreme as only they can do it, the show wasn't far off the mark. Your parents are normal. My cousin is normal. Far too many hybrid drivers are into it for the status. Truth.
Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for making more efficient cars even though my car is the anti-Prius (Prius sacrifices everything for efficiency, M3 sacrifices everything for performance). Take the Tesla I mentioned: Pure plug-in electric, 0-60 in 4.4s, 250 miles per charge. I'd buy that in a heartbeat if it didn't cost $90k. Honda has the first fuel cell powered vehicles on the planet in circulation in LA right now. $600/mo to lease a real car that releases nothing more than water vapor at the tailpipe. Of course, there are only 2 refueling stations in the entire Southland, but it's still a step in the right direction. Slowly but surely, we're getting there.
Definitely a lot of exciting stuff on the horizon. I remember taking an urban futurism course and even 20 years ago we were taking about the trade-offs involved in going hydrogen (i.e., yes, it will solve the air pollution problem, but with cheap non-polluting energy, it just means bigger cars, more traffic, and more sprawl -- solving one problem potentially exacerbates another).
Rumor was that Honda would go with a tricked out hybrid engine on the successor to the NSX -- basically, world beating performance while still getting 25 MPG. As much potential as hybrids have with performance, the market is clearly on the efficiency side. The Accord Hybrid was tuned for performance, while Toyota tuned the Camry Hybrid for fuel economy. The Accord sold poorly, while Toyota has done well with the Camry. More often than not, Toyota reads the market trends correctly in the U.S. market, and I think a big part of that is their huge corporate presence in California, where many of their cars are actually designed.
Supposedly, the Tesla's very sought after in Silicon Valley. On paper, that thing looks absolutely sick. I haven't seen any of them, but it seems to fit the Valley aesthetic quite well (particularly given that a lot of the start-up money for these electric car and plug-in hybrid conversion ventures comes from Silicon Valley) and several Bay Area transit stations provide electrical outlets in prime parking spots for electric cars.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
BTW, before the parental units skip on down to Toyota, they may want to stop by Volkswagen. The '09 Jetta TDI is projected at 45-50mpg and puts out...get this...140hp and 235 lb ft of torque! That, my good friend, is serious off-the-line oomph and it'll be priced the same as the gasoline Jetta. Clean diesels are going to give hybrids a run for their money. Watch.
Diesels are definitely an area where I never expected any innovation after those smoke spewing snails from the 80s exited the U.S. market, yet here we are.
My parents have consistently kept one Toyota in the garage since the mid-80s, and it's the Toyota they're looking to replace this time. Their "other" car over the years has gone from Buick to BMW to Mazda to Mercedes to the current VW New Beetle. The VW has had electrical system issues, so I doubt that they'd look to getting another VW. They like how German cars drive, but they're more iffy on the reliability.
Plus, my mom knows a lot of people who swear by their Prius. It's hard to argue with the almost cult-like devotion that Prius owners have to their cars. Lately, I've been seeing a lot of VW diesels including some with "biodiesel" bumper stickers, so there is a revival of sorts on that front. I just can't think of any gas stations around my neighborhood that serve up any flavor of diesel!
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Originally Posted by topspeed
You're serious? They let hybrid's go solo in the carpool lane?!? If the hybrid's advantage is better efficiency with less detriment to the environment, shouldn't they make hybrids carry a full load instead of allowing solo's?
That's the DMV for ya!
The carpool stickers were part of that whole package of incentives to get people into hybrids in the first place. I think that the DMV has now handed them all out. Next time you see a Prius, look at side bumper and you'll likely see one of those DMV carpool lane stickers. The tax credits are another incentive -- I think that Toyota has already used up all of its allocated tax credits and Honda's credits are phasing out this year. GM and Ford apparently still have available tax credits of up to $3k, depending on which hybrid model you go with.
When my wife and I decided on that Mazda5, we were considering all of these tax credit and carpool incentives. In the end, the hybrids available were either too big, too SUV-like, or too small, while the Mazda5 met our needs and carried the lowest price out of all the hybrid and non-hybrid alternatives we looked at. Fuel economy averages between 24 and 28 MPG -- not bad for a six-seater.
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
Oh brother. :rolleyes: Like it's the family pet?
The Infinty FX isn't a pretender either. It's sleek, luxurious and HAULS AZZ!!!
Oh and... you can put your utilities in it too.
:D
The FX is a complete pretender. I love the shape and agree it's a rocket (with a sweet exhaust note to boot) but you can't carry jack squat. My dog won't even fit thanks to that steeply raked rear window. Plus, for a 4,400lb SUV, a tow rating of 3,500lbs is pathetic.
Big on Sport, ridiculously shy on Utility.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
The FX is a complete pretender. I love the shape and agree it's a rocket (with a sweet exhaust note to boot) but you can't carry jack squat. My dog won't even fit thanks to that steeply raked rear window. Plus, for a 4,400lb SUV, a tow rating of 3,500lbs is pathetic.
Big on Sport, ridiculously shy on Utility.
True, but a lot of people are just looking for a glorified hatchback. Something to carry groceries, garden supplies, etc in while still showing that they have enough expendable cash to burn it off indiscriminately.
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Originally Posted by GMichael
True, but a lot of people are just looking for a glorified hatchback. Something to carry groceries, garden supplies, etc in while still showing that they have enough expendable cash to burn it off indiscriminately.
What I'm wondering is what happened to all the non-glorified hatchbacks! My wife and I would have been perfectly happy with a wagon version of just about any mid-sized sedan (considered the Mazda6 wagon, but none of the dealers in the entire Bay Area had one), but the options were few and mostly out of our price range. Everything's now all about trying to emulate a SUV, which cuts into the interior space, reduces the handling agility (because of the high center of gravity and high profile truck tires), bumps up the weight, and eliminates any semblance of bumper protection.
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Originally Posted by Woochifer
What I'm wondering is what happened to all the non-glorified hatchbacks! My wife and I would have been perfectly happy with a wagon version of just about any mid-sized sedan (considered the Mazda6 wagon, but none of the dealers in the entire Bay Area had one), but the options were few and mostly out of our price range. Everything's now all about trying to emulate a SUV, which cuts into the interior space, reduces the handling agility (because of the high center of gravity and high profile truck tires), bumps up the weight, and eliminates any semblance of bumper protection.
We have been looking at the Mazda 3, 5 door, CX-7 and the Toyota's Matrix & Rav 4.
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Originally Posted by topspeed
The FX is a complete pretender. I love the shape and agree it's a rocket (with a sweet exhaust note to boot) but you can't carry jack squat. My dog won't even fit thanks to that steeply raked rear window. Plus, for a 4,400lb SUV, a tow rating of 3,500lbs is pathetic.
Big on Sport, ridiculously shy on Utility.
Utilities can be any number of things Speedy. It'll hold a hand drill or a Skil saw, a dust pan and wisk broom, a Yamaha receiver and an old Pioneer TT, 6 month old twins... see what I'm saying? All depends on what qualifies as a "utility" :biggrin5:
And besides, I'd rather haul a$$ than some beat up old car trailer with a broken down Bimmer chained down to it. :smilewinkgrin:
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Originally Posted by GMichael
Shake this milk!
What milk? I don't get it. :out:
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