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  1. #1
    RGA
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    What about rumble seats...

    Why are they not pushing rumble seats, back pushers, and air compressors which are FAR more entertaining than what seems to be the fad technology the industry is currently pushing.

    I watched a movie today in a real State of the Art theater. Contagion. And the seats rumble so you can feel the experience. This seems like fun. I recall watching the Borg experience in Vegas when it was there and I remember something in the back of the chair pressing into my back and the seat shooting compressed air out beside my head.

    I would suggest that if your chair is not rumbling and air is not firing into your head that you are not "experiencing" what the director intended.

    So let's get together and start selling rumble chairs and air compressed firing seats and back pokers. I also suggest that we come up with a smell machine that you connect to your face while watching the movie so that we can smell the perfume on Sandra Bullock. I also think we can fix a seat with seatbelts and get it to rock forward and back and side to side so that we can feel what it's like to be in the car when it rolls over or the jarring experience when the plane crashes. Otherwise we're not really getting what the director intended.

    And of course no one can "imagine" what it must be like to be in a plane crash or car roll over - we absolutely must be rocked and rolled in our seat to have any clue what it must be like. Granted it might be a little silly to wear a mask on your face at the movies - oh wait...

  2. #2
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    When you have 4 H-PAS subwoofers powered by 4,000 watts of power on the LFE channel, you don't need them there rumble seats or compressed air.
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  3. #3
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    When you have 4 H-PAS subwoofers powered by 4,000 watts of power on the LFE channel, you don't need them there rumble seats or compressed air.
    I value my hearing. Confirms my suspicions why boom and sizzle sounding gear is so popular with the home theater crowd. Many many hours of listening to high impact bass at levels that shake the chair and blow "bass" air into your face.

    What??? What???? What????????????? NO. WATTS - yes I need more WATTS!! Turn up the treble!! I can't hear the Sss - turn it UP!! What? No. UP! UP! I said UP! TURN THE TREBLE UP! Trouble with Tribbles? WHAT?

  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    I value my hearing. Confirms my suspicions why boom and sizzle sounding gear is so popular with the home theater crowd. Many many hours of listening to high impact bass at levels that shake the chair and blow "bass" air into your face.

    What??? What???? What????????????? NO. WATTS - yes I need more WATTS!! Turn up the treble!! I can't hear the Sss - turn it UP!! What? No. UP! UP! I said UP! TURN THE TREBLE UP! Trouble with Tribbles? WHAT?
    You continue to make one stupid uneducated statement after another. Our ears get less senstive to loudness the lower you go in frequency. At 80hz and under, you stand very little chance of losing your hearing listening to bass from movies than you between 2-5khz at the same volume.

    You ever heard of the equal loudness curve ISO 226?

    Maybe you need to read up before making bobble head statements such as this.

    Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  5. #5
    RGA
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    Another idiotic comment

    So you can never lose your hearing from frequencies under 80hz - let's file that under the idiotic tip of the day. Nothing in your link (wiki no less) discusses this at all. the fact thatyou are MORE likely to lose hearing at another frequency band is completely and 100% irrelevant.

    Go connect your 20hz subwoofer and play it at 160decibals 5 feet from your head - let me know how you your ear drums hold up. Though your hearing would be the least of your troubles.

    Bass doesn't make you deaf? If you are playing bass at levels that can "equal" a rumble seat and "equals" compressed air being blown into your face - you will lose your hearing. PERIOD. And saying otherwise is downright irresponsible and dangerous advice to be giving people on a forum from someone with tags beside their name.
    Last edited by RGA; 09-28-2011 at 05:51 AM.

  6. #6
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Another idiotic comment

    So you can never lose your hearing from frequencies under 80hz - let's file that under the idiotic tip of the day. Nothing in your link (wiki no less) discusses this at all. the fact thatyou are MORE likely to lose hearing at another frequency band is completely and 100% irrelevant.
    Oh goodness, pixie leaves, then we have another village idiot to contend with. Do you see in the graph how sensitive our ears are in relationship to frequency? No of course not, that requires some critical thinking. Our hearing is most sensitive between 1-4khz. That get gradually less sensitive(per frequency) above that, and below that.

    Go connect your 20hz subwoofer and play it at 160decibals 5 feet from your head - let me know how you your ear drums hold up. Though your hearing would be the least of your troubles.
    You don't hear a 20hz tone fool, you feel it. Secondly, there is nothing in the world that requires that you play it back at 160db, be realistic instead of just plain stupid. I have heard a 20hz tone played back at 115db, and my ears were not bothered by it. I did get a nice message though.

    Bass doesn't make you deaf? If you are playing bass at levels that can "equal" a rumble seat and "equals" compressed air being blown into your face - you will lose your hearing. PERIOD. And saying otherwise is downright irresponsible and dangerous advice to be giving people on a forum from someone with tags beside their name.
    Rather than making a statement in a vacuum, do you know the equivalent DB of a rumble seat? Or how much driver movement it would take to simulate compressed air? No, you are just making shyte up to keep the mud off of your stupid face. Well it is too late!

    At bass frequencies it would take a very long exposure to extremely high levels(and its distortion components) to make you deaf. At 1-4khz, the damage could come in minutes. When you understand the ISO:226 standard, you don't make stupid statements like you are making.
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  7. #7
    RGA
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    Now it's 20 hz before it was 80hz - you like to change the posts

    I understood the graph - I get that the ear will be damaged at higher frequencies and at lower levels than deeper bass frequencies at higher levels. That however is not the point and umm I already said this and umm you deliberately ignored that fact so that you could create a strawman and start name calling and belittling others as you always do on these forums. Level is the key - it it is too high hearing damage WILL happen.

    High frequency sounds of 2-4,000 Hz are the most damaging. The uppermost octave of the piccolo is 2,048-4,096 Hz. (some say 3khz to 5khz but regardless it's in the same ballpark).

    ARE YOU HAPPY? Yes I know that these frequencies are the MOST dangerous but being the most dangerous does not mean that all other frequencies are not at all dangerous.

    Bass at high level is dangerous. I am sorry you don't get that. Loud bass music ‘killed student’ Tom Reid | Metro.co.uk

    Please PROVE to me that playing ALL bass frequencies (since even in a movie it is not JUST one frequency being used but a whole bunch of them) at 115db for multiple hours will NEVER hurt anyone's ears ever - I used your 115db figure so don't change the goalpost again.

    Bass that can rumble a seat is not just 20hz. If your aim is to ruin the sound by adding 50db to bass frequencies via an EQ go ahead - that is no longer proper sound quality. A rumble chair does it without screwing around with the frequency balance.

    Why not tell us what the equivalent bass frequency and level is to exactly duplicate the rumble seat and compressed air blowing into your face - whilst also having a poking sensation in the back like the Borg Experience? Since you claim to know everything about everything I will be happy to read the journal on this you have handy. I assume you were at this theater in HK and you did the Borg Experience right? Or is it that you can MERELY make your seat rumble with your subwoofer. See your satisfactory standard may not be the same as mine.

    I have heard deeper than 20hz at high levels - in a smaller space than a theater - and I didn't get the "equal" of either the rumble seat or the compressed air sensation - it rumbles yes - you can shake the room - yes but a replica of the rumble seat? No. I did get a headache from the subs though. Incidentally, I never said you could hear 20hz - what I said was " Go connect your 20hz subwoofer and play it at 160decibals 5 feet from your head - let me know how you your ear drums hold up. Though your hearing would be the least of your troubles." Where exactly did I state you could "hear" the 20hz? 20hz - 20khz is deemed the "audible" spectrum. Sub bass is feeling bass. The best Sub systems to me are the ones designed for Feeling bass - I don't want to ever hear them - that usually means I know where they are and they often have a sub sound - which is not good. They are supposed to be SUB woofers or below the woofer's audibility or Sub Bass (below bass). The point of them to me are to be felt or for added ambiance (or both). If they're audible they're no longer sub bass speakers - they're big woofers in a box.

    As for hearing damage - a question about listening to 20hz-60hz hearing loss - answer "Noise/music, of any frequency, when loud enough, is damaging to your hearing. Sound levels above 90 dB are considered damaging and warrant hearing protection.

    Loud sounds damage your high frequency hearing first. Depending on the exposure and duration of the sound, the hearing loss can progress to the mid frequencies.

    There is a time limit as to when hearing loss will occur due to noise. It can happen with the first loud exposure, or it can develop gradually over time. The loss is usually permanent as well."

    "Don't people in places with loud music or sounds just get used to the volume?

    No. Hearing loss and tinnitus (ringing in the ears) are insidious. Problems can occur gradually. Lots of people never know they have a problem until it's too late." H.E.A.R. | Are You At Risk? | Hearing Education and Awareness for Rockers

    "The maximum exposure time for unprotected ears per day is 8 hours at 85 dB SPL, A-weighted, slow response For every 3 dB increase in volume, the maximum exposure time is cut in half.

    95 dB - 4 hours

    100 dB - 2 hours

    110 dB - 30 min

    120 dB- 7.5 min

    Many hearing professionals believe that these permissible levels are still too high for hearing safety. NIOSH, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommends 85 dB for eight hours a day."

    The issue with bass is that it is not in isolation - the feeling bass doesn't happen in a vacuum - it happens with an associated bunch of much higher but still bass frequencies and at high levels the "pressure" generated can be damaging and not just to the ears.


    The generally accepted standard range of audible frequencies is 20 to 20,000 Hz, although the range of frequencies individuals hear is greatly influenced by environmental factors. Frequencies below 20 Hz are generally felt rather than heard, assuming the amplitude of the vibration is great enough. Frequencies above 20,000 Hz can sometimes be sensed by young people. High frequencies are the first to be affected by hearing loss due to age and/or prolonged exposure to very loud noises.

    Frequency (Hz) Octave Description
    16 to 32 1st The human threshold of feeling, and the lowest pedal notes of a pipe organ.

    32 to 512 2nd to 5th Rhythm frequencies, where the lower and upper bass notes lie.

    512 to 2048 6th to 7th Defines human speech intelligibility, gives a horn-like or tinny quality to sound.

    2048 to 8192 8th to 9th Gives presence to speech, where labial and fricative sounds lie.

    8192 to 16384 10th Brilliance, the sounds of bells and the ringing of cymbals. In speech, the sound of the letter "S" (8000-11000 Hz)

    "Aside from damage to your hearing, exposure to high sound-pressure levels also can produce physiological side effects including disorientation, diarrhea, and chest pains especially when very low frequencies are prevalent in the music."

    And it has been argued that unlike bass frequencies you get more of a warning in the mid upper frequencies of 1khz - 5khz when it is too loud you know it. With our lesser ability to delineate bass notes (require more level to hear them - see Munson) we are tempted to play those notes at much higher levels because they don't bother us - but sensitivity doesn't necessarily correlate with the damage it is doing. Everything I find puts prime importance on level first - the fact that 2khz is irritating and painful at 110db does not negate the fact that 50hz at 110db does no damage to the ear. Level is what counts most - frequency at level is important but higher frequency gives the listener more of a warning that the volume is too high while lower frequencies do not and people think it's safe because they don't hear them as well.

  8. #8
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Now it's 20 hz before it was 80hz - you like to change the posts

    I understood the graph - I get that the ear will be damaged at higher frequencies and at lower levels than deeper bass frequencies at higher levels. That however is not the point and umm I already said this and umm you deliberately ignored that fact so that you could create a strawman and start name calling and belittling others as you always do on these forums. Level is the key - it it is too high hearing damage WILL happen.

    High frequency sounds of 2-4,000 Hz are the most damaging. The uppermost octave of the piccolo is 2,048-4,096 Hz. (some say 3khz to 5khz but regardless it's in the same ballpark).

    ARE YOU HAPPY? Yes I know that these frequencies are the MOST dangerous but being the most dangerous does not mean that all other frequencies are not at all dangerous.
    The danger goes down with frequency, and the graph points that out quite clearly.

    Bass at high level is dangerous. I am sorry you don't get that. Loud bass music ‘killed student’ Tom Reid | Metro.co.uk
    The article mentions nothing about bass, it says loud MUSIC. The victim says it was the bass, but why wasn't anyone else affected by it? There is something else going on here, and you were quite stupid to present this as evidence to prove your point. That kid obviously had heart issues that have nothing to do with the music.

    Please PROVE to me that playing ALL bass frequencies (since even in a movie it is not JUST one frequency being used but a whole bunch of them) at 115db for multiple hours will NEVER hurt anyone's ears ever - I used your 115db figure so don't change the goalpost again.
    What a stupid statement. No movie has 115db of bass at ANY frequency going for hours at a time. Cut the hyperbole and be realistic.


    Bass that can rumble a seat is not just 20hz. If your aim is to ruin the sound by adding 50db to bass frequencies via an EQ go ahead - that is no longer proper sound quality. A rumble chair does it without screwing around with the frequency balance.
    You are swiftly transitioning from plain stupid, to outright idiotic. A rumble chair produces no acoustical output. It is a electro-mechanical device that moves on actuators, and it does not produce a single decibel of acoustical output.

    Why not tell us what the equivalent bass frequency and level is to exactly duplicate the rumble seat and compressed air blowing into your face - whilst also having a poking sensation in the back like the Borg Experience? Since you claim to know everything about everything I will be happy to read the journal on this you have handy. I assume you were at this theater in HK and you did the Borg Experience right? Or is it that you can MERELY make your seat rumble with your subwoofer. See your satisfactory standard may not be the same as mine.
    I visited the Borg Experience in Las Vegas. The rumble seats produced no acoustical output, they just moved to the cue's on the screen. The rumble seats were not even a part of the soundtrack itself, but used timecodes located on a disc where the soundtrack was produced. A rumble seat is not like D-Box which actually uses drivers to shake the seat one sits on. There is no equivalent bass frequency for the rumble seat, becasue there is no acoustical output coming from it. Sorry you are so inept with technology that you don't know the difference between an acoustical device, and a electro-mechanical one.

    I have heard deeper than 20hz at high levels - in a smaller space than a theater - and I didn't get the "equal" of either the rumble seat or the compressed air sensation - it rumbles yes - you can shake the room - yes but a replica of the rumble seat? No. I did get a headache from the subs though. Incidentally, I never said you could hear 20hz - what I said was " Go connect your 20hz subwoofer and play it at 160decibals 5 feet from your head - let me know how you your ear drums hold up. Though your hearing would be the least of your troubles." Where exactly did I state you could "hear" the 20hz? 20hz - 20khz is deemed the "audible" spectrum. Sub bass is feeling bass. The best Sub systems to me are the ones designed for Feeling bass - I don't want to ever hear them - that usually means I know where they are and they often have a sub sound - which is not good. They are supposed to be SUB woofers or below the woofer's audibility or Sub Bass (below bass). The point of them to me are to be felt or for added ambiance (or both). If they're audible they're no longer sub bass speakers - they're big woofers in a box.
    RGA, nobody is stupid here, and you are so mixed up about things, you don't even know what the hell you are saying. If you cannot hear 20hz, then why mention the ear drums? And please, don't go reinventing subwoofers just to make your point. Subwoofers usually operate from 20-80hz. These are both audible and non-audible frequencies. A good sub will allow for clean output at points where you hear it, and and points where you feel it. Who gives a damn what you think a subwoofer should be. Most "woofers" cannot even reach 40hz cleanly, which is why subwoofers are needed in the first place.

    As for hearing damage - a question about listening to 20hz-60hz hearing loss - answer "Noise/music, of any frequency, when loud enough, is damaging to your hearing. Sound levels above 90 dB are considered damaging and warrant hearing protection.
    You are leaving out one important point. The time component. Exposure to 85db at the most critical frequencies occurs after 1 hour. At lower frequencies the amplitude must rise profoundly to compensate for insensitivity of our hearing mechanism at lower frequencies. Once again, more generalizations, and no specifics.

    Loud sounds damage your high frequency hearing first. Depending on the exposure and duration of the sound, the hearing loss can progress to the mid frequencies.

    There is a time limit as to when hearing loss will occur due to noise. It can happen with the first loud exposure, or it can develop gradually over time. The loss is usually permanent as well."

    "Don't people in places with loud music or sounds just get used to the volume?

    No. Hearing loss and tinnitus (ringing in the ears) are insidious. Problems can occur gradually. Lots of people never know they have a problem until it's too late." H.E.A.R. | Are You At Risk? | Hearing Education and Awareness for Rockers

    "The maximum exposure time for unprotected ears per day is 8 hours at 85 dB SPL, A-weighted, slow response For every 3 dB increase in volume, the maximum exposure time is cut in half.

    95 dB - 4 hours

    100 dB - 2 hours

    110 dB - 30 min

    120 dB- 7.5 min

    Many hearing professionals believe that these permissible levels are still too high for hearing safety. NIOSH, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommends 85 dB for eight hours a day."

    The issue with bass is that it is not in isolation - the feeling bass doesn't happen in a vacuum - it happens with an associated bunch of much higher but still bass frequencies and at high levels the "pressure" generated can be damaging and not just to the ears.


    The generally accepted standard range of audible frequencies is 20 to 20,000 Hz, although the range of frequencies individuals hear is greatly influenced by environmental factors. Frequencies below 20 Hz are generally felt rather than heard, assuming the amplitude of the vibration is great enough. Frequencies above 20,000 Hz can sometimes be sensed by young people. High frequencies are the first to be affected by hearing loss due to age and/or prolonged exposure to very loud noises.

    Frequency (Hz) Octave Description
    16 to 32 1st The human threshold of feeling, and the lowest pedal notes of a pipe organ.

    32 to 512 2nd to 5th Rhythm frequencies, where the lower and upper bass notes lie.

    512 to 2048 6th to 7th Defines human speech intelligibility, gives a horn-like or tinny quality to sound.

    2048 to 8192 8th to 9th Gives presence to speech, where labial and fricative sounds lie.

    8192 to 16384 10th Brilliance, the sounds of bells and the ringing of cymbals. In speech, the sound of the letter "S" (8000-11000 Hz)

    "Aside from damage to your hearing, exposure to high sound-pressure levels also can produce physiological side effects including disorientation, diarrhea, and chest pains especially when very low frequencies are prevalent in the music."

    And it has been argued that unlike bass frequencies you get more of a warning in the mid upper frequencies of 1khz - 5khz when it is too loud you know it. With our lesser ability to delineate bass notes (require more level to hear them - see Munson) we are tempted to play those notes at much higher levels because they don't bother us - but sensitivity doesn't necessarily correlate with the damage it is doing. Everything I find puts prime importance on level first - the fact that 2khz is irritating and painful at 110db does not negate the fact that 50hz at 110db does no damage to the ear. Level is what counts most - frequency at level is important but higher frequency gives the listener more of a warning that the volume is too high while lower frequencies do not and people think it's safe because they don't hear them as well.
    Here is another example of the fact that you don't know shyte. The Munson curve is outdated, and is no longer used for this purpose. The new curve is based on the ISO:226 standards.

    It would take far longer exposure of 110db at 50hz to create damage to our hearing...FAR longer than at 2khz.

    In all of the links you provide, it was broadband exposure to loud music that was the problem, not bass frequencies specifically. Perhaps you should read, and then carefully comprehend what links you post.

    RGA, you need to move on. You don't know what you are talking about(as usual), and the only time you do is when you are convincing yourself that audio note stuff is the best on the planet.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 09-30-2011 at 04:31 PM.
    Sir Terrence

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  9. #9
    RGA
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    Here is your quote which started this argument.

    "When you have 4 H-PAS subwoofers powered by 4,000 watts of power on the LFE channel, you don't need them there rumble seats or compressed air."

    Stop changing the issue. I know that the rumble seat is a mechanical device - I have no idea why you are suggesting that I don't know this - or how you read it that way.

    YOU SAID that YOU could recreate the RUMBLE SEAT with your subwoofer - duh a sub is an acoustic device or don't you understand that? YOU SAID that you could REPLACE the rumble chair experience with the above QUOTE. I even bolded it for you.

    I then asked you sir at what frequency and at what level you could recreate the rumble seat experience. Then you laughingly try and turn it around on me that I don't know the difference between a mechanical chair and subwoofer bass. Puhleeze.

    Time for you to move on - the rest of it is off point.

    Point 1) Rumble chairs, compressed air in the face, borg chair experience (mechanical).

    You - "I can get that with subwoofers"

    Me - "How?

    You - no answer lots of blather about volume level and standards replacing Munson. All may very well be fine points but all not at all based on the original one.

    Answer the fracking question as to how you will duplicate EXACTLY with your subwoofers the "experience" of the "mechanical" rumble seat, compressed air at specific moments which are unrelated to bass, and back massages in the chair alla borg experience which was all mentioned in the specific original post.

    Everything else you have said merely attempts to take this thread off course. You were the one that said you could replace the mechanical chair with an acoustic one and then insinuate that I don't know the difference? Wow! just wow!

  10. #10
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Here is your quote which started this argument.

    "When you have 4 H-PAS subwoofers powered by 4,000 watts of power on the LFE channel, you don't need them there rumble seats or compressed air."

    Stop changing the issue. I know that the rumble seat is a mechanical device - I have no idea why you are suggesting that I don't know this - or how you read it that way.
    RGA, you are lying through your yellow teeth. If you know a rumble seat is a mechanical device then why are you making this statement fool?

    If you are playing bass at levels that can "equal" a rumble seat

    You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and it is twisting you up into a bunch.


    YOU SAID that YOU could recreate the RUMBLE SEAT with your subwoofer - duh a sub is an acoustic device or don't you understand that? YOU SAID that you could REPLACE the rumble chair experience with the above QUOTE. I even bolded it for you.
    I didn't say I could recreate anything I said " who needs a rumble seat when you have 4 H-PAS and 4,000 watts of power". Now where in that statement did I say I could recreate anything? Nowhere, you are reading more into that sentence than there is to read.

    I then asked you sir at what frequency and at what level you could recreate the rumble seat experience. Then you laughingly try and turn it around on me that I don't know the difference between a mechanical chair and subwoofer bass. Puhleeze.
    You asked a very stupid question. You said you understand that a rumble seat is a mechanical device, and now you are talking about levels and frequency when the seat has no levels. You got caught falling in your own shyte, and now you are madly backpeddling your way out of this.

    Time for you to move on - the rest of it is off point.
    Follow your own advice

    Point 1) Rumble chairs, compressed air in the face, borg chair experience (mechanical).

    You - "I can get that with subwoofers"
    I didn't say that at all, I said who needs it when you have the subwoofers. At no point in that sentence did I say a subwoofer can recreate the experience. Learn to read, and write less long winded posts.

    Me - "How?

    You - no answer lots of blather about volume level and standards replacing Munson. All may very well be fine points but all not at all based on the original one.
    All to correct you misinformation about how we hear.

    Answer the fracking question as to how you will duplicate EXACTLY with your subwoofers the "experience" of the "mechanical" rumble seat, compressed air at specific moments which are unrelated to bass, and back massages in the chair alla borg experience which was all mentioned in the specific original post.
    This is a stupid question because I never stated it could duplicate the experience. Once again I said who needs it. Do you have the mental capacity to understand the difference...oh maybe not.

    Everything else you have said merely attempts to take this thread off course. You were the one that said you could replace the mechanical chair with an acoustic one and then insinuate that I don't know the difference? Wow! just wow!
    My original statement

    When you have 4 H-PAS subwoofers powered by 4,000 watts of power on the LFE channel, you don't need them there rumble seats or compressed air.

    Did this statement say you could replace anything? Does it say you can duplicate anything? No it does not.

    You read far more into that statement than was necessary. You got caught in your own stupid foolishness, and now you are trying to twist this whole thing to save your stupid face. You ask me what frequency would equal that of a rumble seat, and when it is pointed out to you a rumble seat has no frequency- you then change your tune to I know that. Oh what a web we weave.

    RGA, learn to read and comprehend. Write less blather, understand what you are speaking about before you step to the keyboard. I know this is asking a bit much from you, but it would keep us from having to read a ten thousand word post full of fluff and blather.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 10-02-2011 at 08:35 AM.
    Sir Terrence

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  11. #11
    RGA
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    I am sorry but your statement implies greatly that you can recreate the experience of the rumble seat acoustically - You clearly SAID - you don't need rumble seats when you have a subwoofer.

    That IMPLIES that you can replace the rumble seat with a subwoofer.

    Sorry buds but there is no other way to read that statement. "to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement." And sir that is what you did.


    My follow-up IMPLIED that if you can recreate the Mechanical rumble chair with subwoofers that it would blow my head ear drums. The IMPLICATION being that in order for you to recreate the rumble chair with a subwoofer you would have to play a lot of bass at very very high levels in order to "recreate" rumbling the chair to the same degree of the mechanical chair - and to to have the subwoofer be able to physically BLOW air into your face to the same degree as compressed air would again require massive high levels in order to to do that.

    Your statement CLEARLY implies this.

    Moreover you ALSO mention 4000 watts in your post which MOST people associate with volume capability. So you mention subwoofers for bass, you mention 4000 watts both of which MORE THAN implies it virtually states that you don't need a rumble seat you just need deep bass and massive volume. By saying you don't need X because I have Y that too IMPLIES that X can be replaced or bettered by Y. There is no other way to read it.

    You bold my statement which is a question to you "If you are playing bass at levels that can "equal" a rumble seat

    So once again as maybe you're a bit Asperger's

    You say I don't need rumble seats or compressed air because you have something that can either duplicate or better the experience via an acoustic experience (subs played at high volume). I replied saying I value my hearing - which IMPLIES that "no you can't duplicate or better the experience without blowing my ears. Then you go on a rant.

    Then I ask you fine - tell me what level and volume you can either duplicate or beat the experience. Then you start on this tirade that I am the one who is arguing that a subwoofer can recreate the chair and that you never implied such a thing.

    If it does not IMPLY that Subwoofers with 4000 watts can either recreate or beat (after all we don't need them rumble seats means you have something to offer that is either as good or better) then clearly explain to me what your statement could possibly mean. Backpeddle is what you are doing but good attempt at subterfuge.

  12. #12
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    I am sorry but your statement implies greatly that you can recreate the experience of the rumble seat acoustically - You clearly SAID - you don't need rumble seats when you have a subwoofer.

    That IMPLIES that you can replace the rumble seat with a subwoofer.
    It makes no such implication. Unlike you, I can write clear and concise English. If I meant to say my subwoofers can replicate or recreate anything, I would have said just that.

    Sorry buds but there is no other way to read that statement. "to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement." And sir that is what you did.
    If there is no other way for you to read that statement, then either you cannot read, or you cannot comprehend what you do read. It is just that simple. You don't need is as clear and concise as one needs to be when you DON'T NEED IT!


    My follow-up IMPLIED that if you can recreate the Mechanical rumble chair with subwoofers that it would blow my head ear drums. The IMPLICATION being that in order for you to recreate the rumble chair with a subwoofer you would have to play a lot of bass at very very high levels in order to "recreate" rumbling the chair to the same degree of the mechanical chair - and to to have the subwoofer be able to physically BLOW air into your face to the same degree as compressed air would again require massive high levels in order to to do that.
    I don't imply anything, and never have on this board. If I want to say you are a ass, I will say you are ass. It is just that clear. You are reading more into my statement than you need to.

    Your statement CLEARLY implies this.
    Maybe in your fat airhead it does. Is that clear and concise?

    Moreover you ALSO mention 4000 watts in your post which MOST people associate with volume capability. So you mention subwoofers for bass, you mention 4000 watts both of which MORE THAN implies it virtually states that you don't need a rumble seat you just need deep bass and massive volume. By saying you don't need X because I have Y that too IMPLIES that X can be replaced or bettered by Y. There is no other way to read it.
    Here is another way idiot(is that clear enough/). With 4000 watts of acoustical power and 4 15" H-PAS subs you will move and shake the air, the floor, and the walls all around you. This is all you need to reproduce any effect with movies, only what is on the soundtrack. You don't need the distractions of a rumble seat, compressed air, smell-a-vision, or any other gimmick for movies. They are just a distraction, and why it is not used with most movies.

    As you can see, this don't need had nothing to do with replicate or recreate. You just don't need it for movie reproduction or effect.

    See, if you have more than a one dimensional mind(and a airhead), there is another way to read it.

    You bold my statement which is a question to you "If you are playing bass at levels that can "equal" a rumble seat
    Which is a stupid statement by any measure considering an electro-mechanical device is not a tranducer, and cannot reproduce an acoustical output.

    So once again as maybe you're a bit Asperger's

    You say I don't need rumble seats or compressed air because you have something that can either duplicate or better the experience via an acoustic experience (subs played at high volume). I replied saying I value my hearing - which IMPLIES that "no you can't duplicate or better the experience without blowing my ears. Then you go on a rant.
    No Richard, I did not say that at all. You said that, so let's not get things twisted.

    Then I ask you fine - tell me what level and volume you can either duplicate or beat the experience. Then you start on this tirade that I am the one who is arguing that a subwoofer can recreate the chair and that you never implied such a thing.
    You made this comment

    I value my hearing. Confirms my suspicions why boom and sizzle sounding gear is so popular with the home theater crowd. Many many hours of listening to high impact bass at levels that shake the chair and blow "bass" air into your face.

    This is a stupid statement if you understand at what frequencies would actually shake the chair, or could blow bass in your face. You don't lose your hearing at those frequencies, because at those frequencies you don't hear a damn thing, you feel it. You have a history of making stupid statement..or better yet absurdly long stupid statements. Now we understand that you cannot comprehend plain English, and you are supposed to a English major? Naaaahhhhhhhhh, I don't believe it one bit.

    If it does not IMPLY that Subwoofers with 4000 watts can either recreate or beat (after all we don't need them rumble seats means you have something to offer that is either as good or better) then clearly explain to me what your statement could possibly mean. Backpeddle is what you are doing but good attempt at subterfuge.
    I will say it once again so you can get this point through your thick empty head. You don't need rumble seats, compressed air, or any other non movie related effects. 4 H-PAS subwoofers with 4000 watts of acoustical power is all you need to get a tactile response from any movie soundtrack.

    Do you have the ability to clearly understand this? As you can see, I did not imply anything, I just said it.

    In the future Richard, read only what is stated, and comprehend only what is written(if you have that capacity). Read using your brain, and not you overwrought emotions. Come out and say what you need to say rather than dissing something on the side

    Why are they not pushing rumble seats, back pushers, and air compressors which are FAR more entertaining than what seems to be the fad technology the industry is currently pushing.

    Nobody is stupid here, you were talking about 3D. You stated your opinion on that, now can you move forward? We are tired of reading your overwritten nonsense, that amounts to 3% substance, and 97% of hot air.
    Sir Terrence

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  13. #13
    RGA
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    I am sorry you don't understand the word imply. Show me your English degree and I'll show you mine.

    Blah blah blah - name calling and then we get to this on point issue - with a bit more name calling - but now we get to the part where I don't need a rumble seat or compressed air or a smell machine to enhance the movie going experience...

    "Here is another way idiot(is that clear enough/). With 4000 watts of acoustical power and 4 15" H-PAS subs you will move and shake the air, the floor, and the walls all around you. This is all you need to reproduce any effect with movies, only what is on the soundtrack. You don't need the distractions of a rumble seat, compressed air, smell-a-vision, or any other gimmick for movies. They are just a distraction, and why it is not used with most movies. "

    A 3D is the best guy telling me that I don't need gimmicks from a movie is a perverse joke right? (and why it isn't used with most movies even though the tech has been around for 60 years). You must have chuckled all the way to your bank making that statement.

    One person's treasured technological advancement is another person's p.o.s gimmick I guess. Nevertheless, the Borg Experience was quite excellent - the chair, the compressed air and the 3D. In fact it were not for the poor 3D it would have been perfect.

  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    I am sorry you don't understand the word imply. Show me your English degree and I'll show you mine.
    Yes you are sorry, and you have no idea how sorry you are. I didn't imply anything, you assumed much.

    Blah blah blah - name calling and then we get to this on point issue - with a bit more name calling - but now we get to the part where I don't need a rumble seat or compressed air or a smell machine to enhance the movie going experience...
    Am I name calling, or just identifying who you really are? That is the question, and so far the answer is I am identifying who you really are.


    A 3D is the best guy telling me that I don't need gimmicks from a movie is a perverse joke right? (and why it isn't used with most movies even though the tech has been around for 60 years). You must have chuckled all the way to your bank making that statement.
    I am a film guy, not a 3D guy. 3D keeps your attention locked on the screen. Blowing air, seats rocking you back and forth, and any other non audio/visual stimuli is a complete distraction from the picture.

    I guess a 3D guy telling you that you don't need gimmicks is no worse than a fake audio guy telling you that you need them.

    One person's treasured technological advancement is another person's p.o.s gimmick I guess. Nevertheless, the Borg Experience was quite excellent - the chair, the compressed air and the 3D. In fact it were not for the poor 3D it would have been perfect.
    The 3D Borg Experience in Vegas had excellent 3D. I am now under the impression that you cannot see 3D clearly because you have eye issues. So it is not the technology, it your whacked out eyes.
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  15. #15
    RGA
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    As for non audio visual elements being gimmicks - funny but those were part of the Borg Experience. If 3D enhanced that (and despite the obvious fakeness to me it still enhanced the experience somewhat) then so too did the compressed air and back massagers.

    I see no reason that they can't be added to enhance "certain" films - and theater designers must feel the same way as they're in the theater I went to here in HK. Usually ahead of the west on techy stuff so I won't be surprised if they eventually make it over there.

    Indeed, the video game controllers have rumblers in them to add to the "audio and visual" experience - the only parts of gaming for several decades.

    The olive branch is that I can at least see that 3D while I consider it a gimmick (as did virtually everyone for 50+ years) is not so bad because it's not like people are buying a 3DTV that ONLY does 3D. You buy a TV that is at least "backwards compatible" as it were, with 2D. So it's not like people are spending money for next to no titles - they get the optional extra if they really want it or think they might like it down the road. And it would not be surprising to see it on all TVs in 5 years - the big money is on the software anyway so the more people who own 3D the larger the market of buyers for the software.

    I just have not been satisfied with the quality of it. I liked parts of the borg experience - one bit was really very cool. But it'sthe foreground background issues that areclearly problems - the parts where they wow you as something comes right at your face is not the problem - that has always been pretty awesome to me as an effect.

  16. #16
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    As for non audio visual elements being gimmicks - funny but those were part of the Borg Experience. If 3D enhanced that (and despite the obvious fakeness to me it still enhanced the experience somewhat) then so too did the compressed air and back massagers.

    I see no reason that they can't be added to enhance "certain" films - and theater designers must feel the same way as they're in the theater I went to here in HK. Usually ahead of the west on techy stuff so I won't be surprised if they eventually make it over there.
    Richard,.

    Theme attractions and simulator rides are very different from movies. You cannot overload the senses by shaking and blowing air on people for 2+ hours along with sound and 3D visuals. The object of movies is too keep your eyes on the screen, not distract you from it. If you cannot get a theater owner to keep their bulbs up to spec, speakers repaired and calibrated, then you are not going to get them to do maintenance on this kind of thing either. It is one thing to build a system to move 10 to 15 seats, it is another to build it for 300 to 400 seats.

    After upgrading to D-cinema, there is no way in hell you are going to get them to purchase and maintain this.

    Indeed, the video game controllers have rumblers in them to add to the "audio and visual" experience - the only parts of gaming for several decades.
    Putting a vibrator in a controller is far easier than building actuators for moving chairs.

    The olive branch is that I can at least see that 3D while I consider it a gimmick (as did virtually everyone for 50+ years) is not so bad because it's not like people are buying a 3DTV that ONLY does 3D. You buy a TV that is at least "backwards compatible" as it were, with 2D. So it's not like people are spending money for next to no titles - they get the optional extra if they really want it or think they might like it down the road. And it would not be surprising to see it on all TVs in 5 years - the big money is on the software anyway so the more people who own 3D the larger the market of buyers for the software.
    What, a bit of common sense from Richard? Well, miracles do happen.

    I just have not been satisfied with the quality of it.
    You are under-exposed to it.

    I liked parts of the borg experience - one bit was really very cool. But it'sthe foreground background issues that areclearly problems - the parts where they wow you as something comes right at your face is not the problem - that has always been pretty awesome to me as an effect.
    That in your face stuff is 3D is yesterday. 3D today is more for depth, as things coming out of the screen is very hard on the eyes.
    Sir Terrence

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