The first crack in the streaming wall

[Woochifer]

I find that statement highly misleading, as it implies that if you surfed the Hulu website using the GoogleTV browser that no ads would be displayed... GoogleTV's web browser is just like the web browsers on your computer, so you will see all ads and content (that is not blocked by the provider)...

Hulu's motivation for blocking it's ad based service on GoogleTV is something else... They likely see it as an easy opportunity to charge more money for the same service without being sued...

I think you're misreading what I wrote. The reason why Google TV can (for now) view Hulu via the built-in web browser is precisely because it displays the banner ads.

The actual intent of Google TV is to take the video streams from Hulu, Viacom, and others and simply redirect them straight into Google TV's programming guide, bypassing the ads and/or subscription controls that you would otherwise see if you viewed them using a web browser. THAT is the process that the networks and content providers have blocked. Basically, Google TV is trying to restream "free" content, while bypassing the ads served up by the content providers and shifting everything into a platform where Google keeps the ad revenues.

Hulu functions as a revenue generating platform for the networks that own it. They get revenues from ads, and carriage and subscription fees, and now they're trying to set Hulu up for an IPO. They're not going to simply let Google take these "free" streams to supply their own monetized platform without giving something back.

[Ajani]

I think you're misreading what I wrote. The reason why Google TV can (for now) view Hulu via the built-in web browser is precisely because it displays the banner ads.

The actual intent of Google TV is to take the video streams from Hulu, Viacom, and others and simply redirect them straight into Google TV's programming guide, bypassing the ads and/or subscription controls that you would otherwise see if you viewed them using a web browser. THAT is the process that the networks and content providers have blocked. Basically, Google TV is trying to restream "free" content, while bypassing the ads served up by the content providers and shifting everything into a platform where Google keeps the ad revenues.

Hulu functions as a revenue generating platform for the networks that own it. They get revenues from ads, and carriage and subscription fees, and now they're trying to set Hulu up for an IPO. They're not going to simply let Google take these "free" streams to supply their own monetized platform without giving something back.

Nope... GoogleTV can't access Hulu through the web browser... same for videos on the website of the major studios like CBS and NBC... So it has nothing to do with Google trying to cut out the ads... The networks want to squeeze extra cash out of Google...

This is why there have been so many complaints on the issue... As a US customer you can browse Hulu, CBS, NBC content on your computer for free... But if you attempt to browse it through the GoogleTV browser then you are blocked...

Google was not cutting out ads... GoogleTV allows you to browse the web like Google Chrome on your PC... The issue is that the networks want a different deal with Google....

GoogleTV doesn't provide you with any content (it's not like iTunes) what it does is allow you to search all the content you already have access to... So it will search your cable channels, netflix account, internet access and allow you access all that content in one convenient location (your TV)... So for example a user like me in Jamaica would not be able to access Hulu content through GoogleTV even if Hulu didn't block Google, as Hulu blocks user outside of the states...

[noddin0ff]

Problem is, as others have rightly said so far; we already pay for better service... Anyone using the highest speed internet access pays more than those using the slowest service... The whole point of paying for fast service is to access all manner of streaming content... Comcast is just trying to be greedy and block online competitors to its cable TV service...

And...Comcast charges you what they think they require to deliver you that service (and profit). There's two possibilities. 1) They can provide the service they advertise at that cost, or 2) They can't.

If they can't, they can either charge more and deliver, or promise less.

Either way, I think the only way you can maintain net neutrality is to charge the user based on usage. As I said, the basis of Comcast's argument is volume. As per my two possibilities above, this is either truth or disingenuous. I think it's pretty clear that it's disingenous, they want to control the market.

The reason they can even get away with this is because content providers like Comcast don't face competition in their markets.Certainly not in my market. If there was competition, then Level 3 and consumers could look elsewhere. Of course, I'm sure Level 3 would like to control the market...so would Netflix. If you want fair costs as a consumer you need choice.

[pixelthis]

Breaking..the head of the fcc was supposed to be announcing new rules designed to prevent
this sort of chicanery. BASICALLY, providers won't be able to limit what their customers do with their service within reasonable means.

[Woochifer]

Nope... GoogleTV can't access Hulu through the web browser... same for videos on the website of the major studios like CBS and NBC... So it has nothing to do with Google trying to cut out the ads... The networks want to squeeze extra cash out of Google...

My understanding is that the Google TV web browser allowed for it initially, but was blocked when using the Google TV UI's program search functions. One early review I read expected that the loophole would get plugged quickly. Since the initial review units came out, three of the other major networks have blocked Google TV as well.

Of course the networks are going to try and grab additional revenue from this. Every set-top box that can currently carry streaming network programming is paying some sort of carriage fee to the content providers. Why would Google TV be any different?

Keep in mind that Google's ply and trade is targeted advertising. Hard data on household TV viewing habits is very valuable. Re-embedding those video feeds into Google TV goes right back into their microtargeted web ads (my understanding is that the UI is setup to bypass the display ads that you would otherwise see in a regular PC browser). Again, why would the networks give away something valuable (in this case, both the programming and the analytics data) without asking for something in return?

This is why there have been so many complaints on the issue... As a US customer you can browse Hulu, CBS, NBC content on your computer for free... But if you attempt to browse it through the GoogleTV browser then you are blocked...

That's how it has been with every set-top box on the market. If a manufacturer wants to integrate the online content into a different platform, that's where they renegotiate with the content providers. Just because someone can browse network programming on the web for free doesn't mean that your local cable/satellite provider is entitled to redistribute it on their own system without paying a carriage fee.

GoogleTV doesn't provide you with any content (it's not like iTunes) what it does is allow you to search all the content you already have access to... So it will search your cable channels, netflix account, internet access and allow you access all that content in one convenient location (your TV)... So for example a user like me in Jamaica would not be able to access Hulu content through GoogleTV even if Hulu didn't block Google, as Hulu blocks user outside of the states...

And that's the point. Google TV is not providing any of the content themselves, they are redistributing content hosted on other platforms -- platforms that have their own sources of revenue and create their own value for the content providers. It has everything to do with controlling the platform, the ad revenue, and the underlying information about viewing habits.

As T already said, Google decided to release this product without any consideration for how the content providers might react. Just because the video feeds are "free" on a PC browser does not mean that Google can get redistribute these feeds into a different platform without the content providers having something to say about it.

[Ajani]

My understanding is that the Google TV web browser allowed for it initially, but was blocked when using the Google TV UI's program search functions. One early review I read expected that the loophole would get plugged quickly. Since the initial review units came out, three of the other major networks have blocked Google TV as well.

Of course the networks are going to try and grab additional revenue from this. Every set-top box that can currently carry streaming network programming is paying some sort of carriage fee to the content providers. Why would Google TV be any different?

Keep in mind that Google's ply and trade is targeted advertising. Hard data on household TV viewing habits is very valuable. Re-embedding those video feeds into Google TV goes right back into their microtargeted web ads (my understanding is that the UI is setup to bypass the display ads that you would otherwise see in a regular PC browser). Again, why would the networks give away something valuable (in this case, both the programming and the analytics data) without asking for something in return?



That's how it has been with every set-top box on the market. If a manufacturer wants to integrate the online content into a different platform, that's where they renegotiate with the content providers. Just because someone can browse network programming on the web for free doesn't mean that your local cable/satellite provider is entitled to redistribute it on their own system without paying a carriage fee.



And that's the point. Google TV is not providing any of the content themselves, they are redistributing content hosted on other platforms -- platforms that have their own sources of revenue and create their own value for the content providers. It has everything to do with controlling the platform, the ad revenue, and the underlying information about viewing habits.

As T already said, Google decided to release this product without any consideration for how the content providers might react. Just because the video feeds are "free" on a PC browser does not mean that Google can get redistribute these feeds into a different platform without the content providers having something to say about it.

All valid points... And I do feel that Google should have had discussions with the content providers before launching such a product...

However, I must ask: Doesn't Hulu track the number of viewers it has on PCs? So that same tracking should work for browsers on GoogleTV... If not then there is a legitimate issue...

[Woochifer]

All valid points... And I do feel that Google should have had discussions with the content providers before launching such a product...

However, I must ask: Doesn't Hulu track the number of viewers it has on PCs? So that same tracking should work for browsers on GoogleTV... If not then there is a legitimate issue...

I would guess that Hulu most definitely keeps track of everything. The difference is that none of those analytics from PC-based browsers are shared with anybody. Hulu also keeps all of the subscription and web ad revenue (unless they use Google adwords or some other ad server on their site). Since Hulu attracts millions of weekly viewers, that analytics data is incredibly valuable, particularly to anyone like Google that does microtargeted web ads.

Google TV requires a Google account, and it uses the Chrome browser. You can bet that every search and every microsecond of viewing is being tracked in some way on a Google TV, and it would not surprise me if all of that data gets cross-referenced with other activity that Google tracks from that same IP address. Google has no access to analytics data when viewers watch TV programs using PC-based browsers.

Even though Hulu would still be able to keep track of its viewership, having Google TV as the middleman means that Google can also track Hulu's viewership, among others. They are in essence "sharing" valuable information without paying a cent for it.