firesale part deux

[pixelthis]

Best deal I have seen yet on a Blu player, a Sharp Aquos for 199 on QVC.
BUTS THATS NOT ALL.
You also get two Disney Blu discs and a HDMI cable.
If you go by their pricing that makes the player a 110 buck item.
And no matter what your opinion of Sharp, this is a major brand, this aint no Funai.
Sir talky was saying that Blu player makers were going to keep the prices of
BLU PLAYERS high for several years, try to recoup some investment,
not let what happened to DVD happen to BLU.
He forgot a little thing called the free market.
The depression called a recession didnt help much either.
Can you beleive a Samsung 42" 1080p for 648?
Anyway , don't feel too bad talky, you and your BLU RAY GROUP arent the first to get
butt kicked for ignoring the free market.
So whats your money on for holiday prices?
Will they make it to 75 bucks?
Hmmmmm?

[Smokey]

So whats your money on for holiday prices?
Will they make it to 75 bucks?

May be the blu-ray player from GPX

While looking at DVD palyers at store, also looked at low price Blu ray players and some of name brands on those players don't don't give much confidence in quality. The names such as Memorex, Magnovox and Insignia probably mean 90 day warranty and no after sale service.

But on the positive side, no name players does force major brands to drop their prices to stay competitive.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Best deal I have seen yet on a Blu player, a Sharp Aquos for 199 on QVC.
BUTS THATS NOT ALL.
You also get two Disney Blu discs and a HDMI cable.
If you go by their pricing that makes the player a 110 buck item.
And no matter what your opinion of Sharp, this is a major brand, this aint no Funai.
Sir talky was saying that Blu player makers were going to keep the prices of
BLU PLAYERS high for several years, try to recoup some investment,
not let what happened to DVD happen to BLU.
He forgot a little thing called the free market.
The depression called a recession didnt help much either.
Can you beleive a Samsung 42" 1080p for 648?
Anyway , don't feel too bad talky, you and your BLU RAY GROUP arent the first to get
butt kicked for ignoring the free market.
So whats your money on for holiday prices?
Will they make it to 75 bucks?
Hmmmmm?

You seem to pick and choose what Sir Talky says. Sir Talky said the majors would keep their prices stable, and I said that two years ago. I did not say that prices would remain high forever, just the foreseeable future at the time. They did hold, and as new players were brought to market, the old ones were discounted. I also said that this year would be the year that the cheaper manufacturers would get in the market with affordable players(you failed to mention this in your rant). As the majors bring new players on the market, they are priced much higher than the cheaper offerings.

The free market had nothing to do with player prices as much as manufacturing efficiencies, the drop in laser prices, all in one assemblies, and SOC. Making the player easier to assemble, a drop in part prices, and making players with fewer separate parts has driven prices down. And without this, none of the cheaper players would have ever hit the market. Sharp is not really a major brand as you state, and the player you are talking about is two models old which they are trying to move off shelves at this time. It is also a profile 1.1 player which does not carry a premium price.

If you look at the introductory prices on the MAJORS players, they are still coming in at $300 and above for a quality player. While this price is lower than two years ago, the economy of scale has greatly help to lower prices, something I also mentioned.

Next time you quote me, keep in mind(if you ever had one) that nothing I say is static or in freeze frame. Also keep in mind that the free market does not always drive prices down, it can drive them up as well.. Secondly, the recession has not effected player or software prices. Especially considering there are many more manufacturers in the market than two years ago. I also stated here as the market grew, there would be player prices that everyone could afford(you conveniently missed that quote just to try and make your lame point). Keep things in context, and relevant within their time frame stupid, it would add to the credibility that you continually lack when you post.

[frahengeo]

To Pixie & STTT,

Hey Fellas (I'm assuming),

You guys crack me up. Are you two neighbors, old buddies, or something? I thoroughly enjoy the bickering between you two. Pixie throws a bait out there and STTT bites. Good stuff. Keep up the good work you two.

p.s. By the way, do you two work for or even run this forum?

[Feanor]

....

The free market had nothing to do with player prices as much as manufacturing efficiencies, the drop in laser prices, all in one assemblies, and SOC. Making the player easier to assemble, a drop in part prices, and making players with fewer separate parts has driven prices down. And without this, none of the cheaper players would have ever hit the market. Sharp is not really a major brand as you state, and the player you are talking about is two models old which they are trying to move off shelves at this time. It is also a profile 1.1 player which does not carry a premium price.

...

I'm not entirely convinced. There is a loose connection between cost and price.

And there are to ways to recoup development costs:

1. Keep the prices high and "skim" the rich enthusiast market;
2. Lower prices to capture the mass market and make up initial costs through volume.

For my part, I predicted that principal Blu-ray makers would go No.1 for a couple of years and that Blu-ray would not go mainstream only prices were permitted to sink to US$150. As I recall, SirTtT insisted that prices would remain high for a while, not because of a No.1 startegy, but just because unit costs would be too high to permit the No.2 strategy.

Whatever, but I think we were both pessimistic. In fact mass acceptance probably began at a higher point than I predicted, perhaps it was $225-250. When it became evident that BR was catching on relatively fast, parts manufacturers began to tool-up big time for large scale production. This, in turn, permitted the entry of mass market providers earlier than SirTtT predicted, (I suggest, though he'll likely disagree 'cause he's never wrong). Of course, the up-market providers and still trying to "skim" with higher-priced models with more features and -- maybe -- better quality.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm not entirely convinced. There is a loose connection between cost and price.

And there are to ways to recoup development costs:

1. Keep the prices high and "skim" the rich enthusiast market;
2. Lower prices to capture the mass market and make up initial costs through volume.

For my part, I predicted that principal Blu-ray makers would go No.1 for a couple of years and that Blu-ray would not go mainstream only prices were permitted to sink to US$150. As I recall, SirTtT insisted that prices would remain high for a while, not because of a No.1 startegy, but just because unit costs would be too high to permit the No.2 strategy.

Feanor, while I said prices would remain high "for a while" that does not mean two to three years or more. My window was aimed more at 2008 than 2009. I knew what the BDA had up its sleeve, I have attended many a meeting on behalf of the company I work for. The larger popular brands by and large have kept their blu-ray player prices fairly high, and are not selling any player at a loss. That was the goal. As things like all in one laser assemblies, cheaper laser prices, and manufacturering efficiencies(as a result of a lack of format war) were realized, player prices were lowered but not the profit made per player. Manufacturers still get the same profit per player they were getting in 2007 and 2008 in spite of the economic downturn through these efficiences. Back in early 2008 they were talking of player prices being down around $100 because they were beginning to liscense chinese manufacturers to make players(not design) and everyone knew this would mean cheaper prices. The original concept was to create several "tiers" of prices that could support the taste of budget consumers, mid price consumers, and the high end consumer as well. That is largely in place now. During the format war, this was impossible to do.

Whatever, but I think we were both pessimistic. In fact mass acceptance probably began at a higher point than I predicted, perhaps it was $225-250. When it became evident that BR was catching on relatively fast, parts manufacturers began to tool-up big time for large scale production. This, in turn, permitted the entry of mass market providers earlier than SirTtT predicted, (I suggest, though he'll likely disagree 'cause he's never wrong). Of course, the up-market providers and still trying to "skim" with higher-priced models with more features and -- maybe -- better quality.

Not quite right here. BR began to catch on in mid 2008 in terms of software and hardware sales. However it was still expensive and complex to make a blu-ray player, and prices remained stable at pretty high prices. It was not until unified laser assembly heads and SOC hit the manufacturing market at the end of 2008 that these complexities were conquered, and manufacturing efficiencies took hold. This also enabled the flood of cheaper players to hit the market because not it was possible to create a low priced player without killing the profit per player ratio that most manufacturers desire. Feanor, I knew the mass market producers of Blu-ray players were coming on line in 2009, but I also knew that there would be a dearth of profile 1.1 players that would be heavily discounted in 2009 as well. So nothing was earlier than I predicted, as I was following the BDA plan, a plan that worked very much on time. And your asinine comment about me never being wrong was completely unnecessary in the context of this discussion. It hard to maintain any civility around here without trying to take diggs at people. I didn't attack you, so you should not be so quick to attack me. This is part of the reason I don't come around here much anymore.

[Feanor]

... So nothing was earlier than I predicted, as I was following the BDA plan, a plan that worked very much on time. And your asinine comment about me never being wrong was completely unnecessary in the context of this discussion. It hard to maintain any civility around here without trying to take diggs at people. I didn't attack you, so you should not be so quick to attack me. This is part of the reason I don't come around here much anymore.

My apology -- but then I knew you wouldn't be wrong.

You have attacked various people at various times; no need to spare me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

My apology -- but then I knew you wouldn't be wrong.

You have attacked various people at various times; no need to spare me.

I really do not have the time to come here and fight anymore, I am too busy for that these days. I am not the attacking type, but the defensive type(except when it comes to pixie). If I find information that is incorrect, I deal with that information. Attacking people carries no interest for me, attacking incorrect information is what I prefer to do. If you call attacking incorrect information attacking the person, not much I can do about that. Everyone perception of an attack is different.

Have I been wrong in the past? Certainly, ask Wooch, he'll tell ya. But it is not my practice to engage in topics that I know nothing about. If I do engage, I probably know what I am talking about, or I stay out.

[pixelthis]

I really do not have the time to come here and fight anymore, I am too busy for that these days. I am not the attacking type, but the defensive type(except when it comes to pixie). If I find information that is incorrect, I deal with that information. Attacking people carries no interest for me, attacking incorrect information is what I prefer to do. If you call attacking incorrect information attacking the person, not much I can do about that. Everyone perception of an attack is different.

Have I been wrong in the past? Certainly, ask Wooch, he'll tell ya. But it is not my practice to engage in topics that I know nothing about. If I do engage, I probably know what I am talking about, or I stay out.

I f"attacking incorrect information" is all you are concerned with, then the best way
probably would be to keep quite, that would not add to the incorrect information floating around.
The only major difference outside software between a DVD and a Blu player is the laser,
IT is not a major engineering feat to make one, and they are still priced a tad higher than
they could be, but that will change rapidly.
In any event I bet prices are crashing faster than your buddies at the Blu group would like,
they are falling a lot faster than you predicted, in any event.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I f"attacking incorrect information" is all you are concerned with, then the best way
probably would be to keep quite, that would not add to the incorrect information floating around.
The only major difference outside software between a DVD and a Blu player is the laser,
IT is not a major engineering feat to make one, and they are still priced a tad higher than
they could be, but that will change rapidly.
In any event I bet prices are crashing faster than your buddies at the Blu group would like,
they are falling a lot faster than you predicted, in any event.

Whatever..

You have always been a informational lightweight, so nothing you have to say moves me. You think what you want to think, you quote what you want to quote, but learning something has never been your forte.

[pixelthis]

Whatever..

You have always been a informational lightweight, so nothing you have to say moves me. You think what you want to think, you quote what you want to quote, but learning something has never been your forte.

I am always open to "new information", but one shouldn't be so open minded that
his brains fall out. Lets just say that my BS detector is highly attuned.
And I may be a "lightweight" but I DON'T MAKE STUFF UP, EITHER.