File this under "No Big Suprise" XBOX BR

[Groundbeef]

Endgadget is (as well as tons of other sites) reporting that MS is in high level talks w/Sony about licencing the BR technology.

Where it gets a little fuzzy is that some sites are suggesting that MS may release an integrated BR player. I'm not buying that for a minute. I do think that an add-on player is in the works, but no way there will be an integrated player.

No mention of any hardware related playback issues brought up by Sir T in another thread, so I can't comment on those.

Heres the rather short article:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6017de-e...nclick_check=1

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Endgadget is (as well as tons of other sites) reporting that MS is in high level talks w/Sony about licencing the BR technology.

Where it gets a little fuzzy is that some sites are suggesting that MS may release an integrated BR player. I'm not buying that for a minute. I do think that an add-on player is in the works, but no way there will be an integrated player.

No mention of any hardware related playback issues brought up by Sir T in another thread, so I can't comment on those.

Heres the rather short article:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6017de-e...nclick_check=1

Beef, I do not think you are going to publicly hear about issues regarding integrating bluray with XBOX. I do not think the drive will be internal, I think it will be a add on just like the HD DVD drive. From what I hear they are trying to get the XBOX married to the next generation HD disc format, just like they were trying to do with HD DVD when they thought it would succeed the DVD.

Making the drive internal will just drive up the cost of the Xbox, and it would lose its competitive price with the PS3.

[GMichael]

Endgadget is (as well as tons of other sites) reporting that MS is in high level talks w/Sony about licencing the BR technology.

Where it gets a little fuzzy is that some sites are suggesting that MS may release an integrated BR player. I'm not buying that for a minute. I do think that an add-on player is in the works, but no way there will be an integrated player.

No mention of any hardware related playback issues brought up by Sir T in another thread, so I can't comment on those.

Heres the rather short article:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6017de-e...nclick_check=1

Didn't they deny any interest in doing this (either as an add on or internal) about a week ago. My my how fast things change in the business world.
(anyone notice which way those little green pieces of paper were flying last?)

[Rich-n-Texas]

An excellent display... once again... of corporate greed at it's finest. I'd love to read what RL would have to say about this.

[Groundbeef]

Didn't they deny any interest in doing this (either as an add on or internal) about a week ago. My my how fast things change in the business world.
(anyone notice which way those little green pieces of paper were flying last?)

I don't recall them denying they were interested in this (MS). I think they just denied to confirm they were interested in the BR technology.

Going back several years, MS had acknowledged that if BR won the day, they would probably offer an add-on similar to the HD-DVD drive.

[kexodusc]

The timing of this is weird.

What do they have to gain by supporting BluRay's early in its life cycle? And how are they going to compete against the inevitable slew of cheaper BluRay players on the horizon?

Not that I don't believe my buddy Beefy, but I can't figure out what's MS has got to gain by adding the BluRay add-on device? Hardware profits?
Maybe. I doubt it'd be enough to satisfy MS internal rate of return though. Unless it's solely to take away the perceived advantage people might think PS3 has with BluRay capability?

It'd better not be a crippled BluRay player like the HD-DVD add-ons were - add hi-rez capability dammit.

I think creating an optional model with integrated drive would make more sense than adding another "add-on" accessory at this point. If it was $200 even, I'd still be more tempted to find the extra cash to buy a PS3, especially if I was a gamer.

We'll see.

[Groundbeef]

The timing of this is weird.

What do they have to gain by supporting BluRay's early in its life cycle? And how are they going to compete against the inevitable slew of cheaper BluRay players on the horizon?

Not that I don't believe my buddy Beefy, but I can't figure out what's MS has got to gain by adding the BluRay add-on device? Hardware profits?
Maybe. I doubt it'd be enough to satisfy MS internal rate of return though. Unless it's solely to take away the perceived advantage people might think PS3 has with BluRay capability?

It'd better not be a crippled BluRay player like the HD-DVD add-ons were - add hi-rez capability dammit.

I think creating an optional model with integrated drive would make more sense than adding another "add-on" accessory at this point. If it was $200 even, I'd still be more tempted to find the extra cash to buy a PS3, especially if I was a gamer.

We'll see.

1st. Integrating BR into the 360 would be foolish. Games will never be made on it because earlier 360 owners couldn't play them. So there would be no net gain to include the player..

2nd. MS is out to make money. Sure they would have to license the BR tech, but if they can sell some players for $149-199 it would be a good way to make some additional coin.

Plus, I would imagine that if they can release it fairly soon, the price would be attractive versus buying a standalone player for $400.

And I would imagine there are more than a few 360 owners that wouln't buy a PS3 even if it were the ONLY BR player on the market. Why would MS want to drive consumers to Sony if they can sell a BR player also?

[kexodusc]

1st. Integrating BR into the 360 would be foolish. Games will never be made on it because earlier 360 owners couldn't play them. So there would be no net gain to include the player..

Integrating into the ONLY model of Xbox 360 would be foolish. I bet there's cost savings to be had with an integrated model for those that would want it vs building and packaging/distributing two separate pieces. Not to mention it's more attractive to potential buyers. Put simply, if I wanted the 360 and the BluRay add on, I'd rather get it all in one space saving chassis that should be few dollars cheaper. Keep selling the BluRay-less 360 models though. Prevents me from having to buy 2 separate pieces of hardware, extra packing materials, etc...just a bother. They might even do both, an add-on for existing owners, and an integrated solution.

2nd. MS is out to make money. Sure they would have to license the BR tech, but if they can sell some players for $149-199 it would be a good way to make some additional coin.

If there were decent profits to be had at $200, we'd see more BluRay players at $200 by now. What's worse, MS is a high return business - they don't invest in low margin products usually. That doesn't maximize shareholder value. I can't see any situation where this thing comes in at less than $200 and makes it worth their while, unless maybe they think they'll sell more xbox's with it? If that's the justification fine - use this as a loss leader. Hey, I'd love to see it at $200, it would sure put some pressure on BluRay players to come down even more than they're sure to drop this year.

Plus, I would imagine that if they can release it fairly soon, the price would be attractive versus buying a standalone player for $400.

Yeah, at $300 even, it could still be attractive to 360 owners, especially if it is fully functional and of decent quality.

And I would imagine there are more than a few 360 owners that wouln't buy a PS3 even if it were the ONLY BR player on the market. Why would MS want to drive consumers to Sony if they can sell a BR player also?

Well I don't disagree with what you're saying here.
But this is where fanboys don't think clearly. They take the battle personally and get emotionally involved. Us vs. Them.
The battle between Sony and MS isn't all that personal - they're each in it to maximize shareholder value, not to mutually destroy each other. That's a big difference in philosophies between company and fanboy. Doing something just to hurt the competition that doesn't also maximize ROI isn't worthwhile, because there's no benefit. Unless you believe shareholders are sadistic and not greedy. Shareholders don't care if other companies are struggling too, they just want their money.
The fact Sony would even consider granting MS the license is evidence of this - Sony signing a deal with Toshiba the weak after the death of HD-DVD is another. And really, MS adding a BR drive ain't gonna hurt Sony in any fashion in the long run. They might actually stand to make more of the licensing than the hardware margins.

If MS also makes a stand alone BluRay player and enters the consumer electronics market, then I'd believe their in this to try to compete against Sony here.
MS is probably sensing demand from the gaming market for 360 BluRay capability. I'm guessing they're exploring the feasibilty of adding it to address that demand.

[Groundbeef]

If there were decent profits to be had at $200, we'd see more BluRay players at $200 by now. What's worse, MS is a high return business - they don't invest in low margin products usually. That doesn't maximize shareholder value. I can't see any situation where this thing comes in at less than $200 and makes it worth their while, unless maybe they think they'll sell more xbox's with it? If that's the justification fine - use this as a loss leader. Hey, I'd love to see it at $200, it would sure put some pressure on BluRay players to come down even more than they're sure to drop this year.

Well, there is a difference between a standalone player $400 and the addon ($200 estimated).

In this case, the $200 addon is simply the BR drive. The processing of the film would be done by the XBOX, same way as the HD-DVD player was. Because of this, cost should be pretty low. Afterall, its really only a disk drive at that point. The 360 is doing all the processing.

Unlike a $400 player that is BOTH the drive, and the processor.

Thats the difference. I think MS could make money at the $200 price point.

[kexodusc]

Well, there is a difference between a standalone player $400 and the addon ($200 estimated).

In this case, the $200 addon is simply the BR drive. The processing of the film would be done by the XBOX, same way as the HD-DVD player was. Because of this, cost should be pretty low. Afterall, its really only a disk drive at that point. The 360 is doing all the processing.

Unlike a $400 player that is BOTH the drive, and the processor.

Thats the difference. I think MS could make money at the $200 price point.

Yeah, that's very true, and there's BluRay drives for computers that support your guess here.
It's a low margin game, but I guess if it keeps people in the Xbox world happy and slows any bleeding to PS3 fanboyism, it makes sense.

[Woochifer]

The timing of this is weird.

What do they have to gain by supporting BluRay's early in its life cycle? And how are they going to compete against the inevitable slew of cheaper BluRay players on the horizon?

My understanding is that Microsoft makes its highest margins on the Xbox 360 with accessory sales, and the earlier models required add-ons for larger drive capacity (or any hard drive at all, as was the case with the core model), wireless networking, etc. A Blu-ray drive would be yet another high margin accessory sale. I recall that the HD-DVD add-on had a decent margin on it because it was nothing more than a drive and enclosure -- the playback and processing functions were handled by the console itself. This equation would obviously change if Blu-ray playback on a Xbox 360 requires more than just a BD drive and enclosure to make it work.

Another motive would be if Xbox developers or MS want to issue games using higher capacity discs. With the demise of HD-DVD, Blu-ray's the only higher capacity optical disc option now available.

Sony's willingness to negotiate with MS to add a Blu-ray drive to the Xbox 360 seems to me like an indication that seeding the market with Blu-ray is more important to them than any perceived advantage to the PS3 by withholding Blu-ray from the Xbox. Of course, this whole thing could also be driven more by the BDA as a collective than Sony by itself.

[Groundbeef]

Sony's willingness to negotiate with MS to add a Blu-ray drive to the Xbox 360 seems to me like an indication that seeding the market with Blu-ray is more important to them than any perceived advantage to the PS3 by withholding Blu-ray from the Xbox. Of course, this whole thing could also be driven more by the BDA as a collective than Sony by itself.

Money is money. Sony doesn't "own" BR itself. For them to withhold it from MS would be like MS not allowing Sony Viao computers to run Windows. Not likely.

MS wouldn't use BR for games (not now anyway) as the 360 couldn't utilize it cross platform. Now the next generation probably will.

[kexodusc]

My understanding is that Microsoft makes its highest margins on the Xbox 360 with accessory sales, and the earlier models required add-ons for larger drive capacity (or any hard drive at all, as was the case with the core model), wireless networking, etc. A Blu-ray drive would be yet another high margin accessory sale. I recall that the HD-DVD add-on had a decent margin on it because it was nothing more than a drive and enclosure -- the playback and processing functions were handled by the console itself. This equation would obviously change if Blu-ray playback on a Xbox 360 requires more than just a BD drive and enclosure to make it work.

Yeah, I was thinking it was a complete player for some reason? My bad. We'll have to see if Terrence's rumours of the 360 having some technical difficulties handling BluRay prove to be true.

Money is money. Sony doesn't "own" BR itself. For them to withhold it from MS would be like MS not allowing Sony Viao computers to run Windows. Not likely.

MS wouldn't use BR for games (not now anyway) as the 360 couldn't utilize it cross platform. Now the next generation probably will.

Yeah, more BluRay players = better for Sony. Each 360 BR buyer will buy a bunch of movies, which Sony would get a bit of royalties for as well.
Don't think they're even thinking about any possible effect on PS3 from letting MS have BluRay. Don't think there'd be much threat there anyway.

Next generation using BluRay? Wow. Imagine 50+ GB of video game data per title.

[pixelthis]

aH YES, XBOX, said to be the worst gaming system by YAHOO.
If it can be adapted to a computer like the HD drive it might be worth a peek.
Otherwise its a big non issue to non gamers, which is most people

[Groundbeef]

aH YES, XBOX, said to be the worst gaming system by YAHOO.
If it can be adapted to a computer like the HD drive it might be worth a peek.
Otherwise its a big non issue to non gamers, which is most people

I'd like to see the sample that Yahoo polled. Seeing as sales are approaching 20 million units, I'd say its doing pretty good.

[kexodusc]

And everyone knows that Yahoo is totally unbiased when it comes to Microsoft products...

I try to avoid MS's software, but let's be clear about what makes a good gaming system - the hardware is maybe 10% of it - the games themselves are 90%. XBOX is doing just fine by my count.

[pixelthis]

And everyone knows that Yahoo is totally unbiased when it comes to Microsoft products...

I try to avoid MS's software, but let's be clear about what makes a good gaming system - the hardware is maybe 10% of it - the games themselves are 90%. XBOX is doing just fine by my count.

Like with people and everything else, its the software.
And this is as "non" news as you can get.
In case you didn't get the memo , milkshake cow, HD DVD has fallen on its sword.
So where else is micro gonna go for a videodisc addon?

[kexodusc]

Like with people and everything else, its the software.
And this is as "non" news as you can get.
In case you didn't get the memo , milkshake cow, HD DVD has fallen on its sword.
So where else is micro gonna go for a videodisc addon?

There you go rambling incoherent again.

Milkshake cow? No more Ovaltine before bedtime for you.

[Groundbeef]

Like with people and everything else, its the software.
And this is as "non" news as you can get.
In case you didn't get the memo , milkshake cow, HD DVD has fallen on its sword.
So where else is micro gonna go for a videodisc addon?

Apparently Sir T is correct. You are a total moron. Why do you think I started this thread? MS is in talks for a BR add-on. Because HD-DVD isn't supported by Toshiba any longer.

But MS doesn't NEED BR as the games are on DVD.

Thanks for posting though. You are always worth a few laughs.

[kexodusc]

Apparently Sir T is correct. You are a total moron. Why do you think I started this thread? MS is in talks for a BR add-on. Because HD-DVD isn't supported by Toshiba any longer.

But MS doesn't NEED BR as the games are on DVD.

Thanks for posting though. You are always worth a few laughs.

Oh wait..are you "Milkshake Cow"?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

There you go rambling incoherent again.

Milkshake cow? No more Ovaltine before bedtime for you.

Ovaltine, this fool drinks 160 proof moonshine. That is why he is so brain dead.

[Woochifer]

"milkshake cow"?!

I guess we now know what pixelmaid does in his spare time ... MOOOOOOO!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x27ZO...eature=related

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

"milkshake cow"?!

I guess we now know what pixelmaid does in his spare time ... MOOOOOOO!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x27ZO...eature=related

There are some folks that should NEVER dance, or even look like they are.

[pixelthis]

Apparently Sir T is correct. You are a total moron. Why do you think I started this thread? MS is in talks for a BR add-on. Because HD-DVD isn't supported by Toshiba any longer.

But MS doesn't NEED BR as the games are on DVD.

Thanks for posting though. You are always worth a few laughs.

What an idiot, you have no reading comprehension whatsoever
Or any understanding of the facts, and you're supposed to be a xbox fanboy.

Microsoft wanted the xbox be an all in one media center, not just a "game console".
Sony wants the same with PS3. Didn't you get the memo at the last xbox fanboy circlejerk?

Which means, if they are serious, they will need a HD disc format, and they choose wrong (like you) and choose HD dvd.
So where are they gonna go if they still want that?
Not exactly a whole lotta choices, ace.
tune in tommorrow and we'll cover the nuances of third grade math

[pixelthis]

In other words, blended cow, micro isn't in talks, they are on bended nee
begging for Sony to give em the rights to the future, the only HD disc format thats left, if I were Sony I'd make m beg for awhile.
Not hard to figure out that this would happen, hence its a non event.
A fati accompli.
EXCEPT TO THE CLUELESS MAYBE.
On the other hand you DID go HDDVD.....