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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
Research?! But, that would entail actually writing something NEW! :cool:
I'm betting that he already knows that a lot of what he says is not that accurate. He's just having fun. And it gives us someone to pick on.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
You know in some sort of perverse way I find it amazing how Pix can change any post on almost ANY subject into a single minded rant about the shortcomings of Plasma vs. Godzilla, Gidorah, LCD take your pick...
As Spock would say.... "fascinating".
Da Worfster
Welcome to the Wide World of Pixelthis! :crazy:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
You know in some sort of perverse way I find it amazing how Pix can change any post on almost ANY subject into a single minded rant about the shortcomings of Plasma vs. Godzilla, Gidorah, LCD take your pick...
As Spock would say.... "fascinating".
Da Worfster
Fun isn't he.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Fun isn't he.
The "fun" is going to be in a few years when all of these nice new plasmas start dropping dead.
You do know that everything I say(as opposed to wooch, who is just making stuff up) is based on what I have read and hard experience,
don't ya?
DENIAL aint just a river in Egypt, to use an old saying.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
The "fun" is going to be in a few years when all of these nice new plasmas start dropping dead.
You do know that everything I say(as opposed to wooch, who is just making stuff up) is based on what I have read and hard experience,
don't ya?
DENIAL aint just a river in Egypt, to use an old saying.:1:
:out:
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Always the answer for someone with no other answer.
Just do me a favor, okay?
Write pixlethis in large letters on a piece of paper and stick it under that shiny new toy of yours, or tape it to the back somewhere.
When it goes in for repairs in a few years(like a lot that belong to people I know) this will be my little "I told you so".
Thanks:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
Always the answer for someone with no other answer.
Just do me a favor, okay?
Write pixlethis in large letters on a piece of paper and stick it under that shiny new toy of yours, or tape it to the back somewhere.
When it goes in for repairs in a few years(like a lot that belong to people I know) this will be my little "I told you so".
Thanks:1:
:out:
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No need for the emoticon, I ALREADY KNOW that you are half past crazy.
Just answer the question please, will you put my "told you so"
note on the back of your shiny new toy, soon to be a shiny new
paperweight/ picture frame?:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
No need for the emoticon, I ALREADY KNOW that you are half past crazy.
Just answer the question please, will you put my "told you so"
note on the back of your shiny new toy, soon to be a shiny new
paperweight/ picture frame?:1:
:out:
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THINK you're speechless now, wait until you crank your tv one day
and find out that its turned into a radio(sound but no picture).
WOOCH'S family trying to entertain themselves without a TV...:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
THINK you're speechless now, wait until you crank your tv one day
and find out that its turned into a radio(sound but no picture).
WOOCH'S family trying to entertain themselves without a TV...:1:
:out:
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Funny how a....
...:out: can say so much.
Not to muddy the waters or anything, but I was just reading the specs on the top of the line (for Costco) Panasonic TH-C50FD18 50" plasma they are selling for $1399.99. Now I don't know what actual non-Costco model number that translates to (maybe someone can enlighten me), or if this is an older/overstock model, but that's a lot of TV for $1399.99. Comparable LCDs, albeit measuring 52", are at least $200 more.
Anyhow, the spec says that brightness will reach it's half-way mark after 100,000 hours. According to Panasonic, that translates to 30 years of 8 hours a day TV watching in the typical home. They did not say how it was adjusted in these tests. Now granted, 30 years sounds distant, but by that time it will be half as bright, that is 50% of the brightness when new, and basically worthless. Now I'm no mathematician, but doesn't that mean that it will reach it's completely off stage (picture-frame stage according to Pixelthis) after 60 years? Looking at it another way, it will be less bright by 10% after 6 years.
Now we're talking decades of ownership, but what is something like this worth on the used market? After all, after just 3 years it will be 5% less bright. How many of us would buy a set of used speakers if we knew it would be 5% less less clear? How about an amp manufactured in 1996 that was already 20% less loud? And Plasma is very sensitive technology, too. For example, would anyone actually buy a used Plasma since "anything" could have happened to it? With CRTs, that wasn't so much a fear, and even they are practically worthless. As a point of reference, I just sold my 8 year old 42" CRT (HD-ready/1080i/Component/Widescreen) for $300, and it was immaculately clean, nothing wrong with it except that it needs an external digital tuner for the Feb.'09 switch-over. Anyhow, I bought it on sale at CC for $1450.
So will that Costco $1399 plasma sell for $300 in 8 years? I'm not so sure I'll even be able to give it away as Plasma will be seen in a worse light than CRTs are today. For one, Mitsubishi's laser technology is getting some impressive reviews. While perhaps short-lived, LCD will be seen as the Toyota Prius of TVs in this decade, while Plasma will be seen as the Escalade, a symbol of consumer extravagance (Pioneer Plasma as the Hummer?). Considering how fast CRTs became obsolete, it certainly doesn't bode well for Plasma, even if it does have a better picture.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
...:out: can say so much.
Yep, no need to waste more time and words than I have to. :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Not to muddy the waters or anything, but I was just reading the specs on the top of the line (for Costco) Panasonic TH-C50FD18 50" plasma they are selling for $1399.99. Now I don't know what actual non-Costco model number that translates to (maybe someone can enlighten me), or if this is an older/overstock model, but that's a lot of TV for $1399.99. Comparable LCDs, albeit measuring 52", are at least $200 more.
That's actually Panasonic's current entry level 1080p plasma series. The model equivalent for that Costco model (TH-C50FD18) is the TH-50PZ80U. The difference between the two models is that the Costco model uses a matte black bezel rather than gloss black, and it includes a PC input. The TH-50PZ80U came out back in March with a $2,000 list price, and I've seen other online vendors selling it for under $1,400. I bought the Costco model because they have a 90-day return policy (which also includes 90 days of price protection -- if the price goes down within 90 days, you get the difference) and double the factory warranty.
The model above the TH-50PZ80U has a higher rated contrast ratio and better picture controls, and subsequent models above that one use a single-pane design and add THX certification and other pro level fine tuning features.
When comparing the LCD, you also need to consider that only the more expensive 120 Hz LCD TVs have a motion resolution consistently above 480 lines. (The Panny 1080p TVs were measured at over 800 lines with moving images last year, and they claim 900 lines for this year's models).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Anyhow, the spec says that brightness will reach it's half-way mark after 100,000 hours. According to Panasonic, that translates to 30 years of 8 hours a day TV watching in the typical home. They did not say how it was adjusted in these tests. Now granted, 30 years sounds distant, but by that time it will be half as bright, that is 50% of the brightness when new, and basically worthless. Now I'm no mathematician, but doesn't that mean that it will reach it's completely off stage (picture-frame stage according to Pixelthis) after 60 years? Looking at it another way, it will be less bright by 10% after 6 years.
The half-life brightness is the standard measure that's used across the industry. Just like the MTBF (mean time between failure) is used with computer components. No one cares about the 25% time at which units fail.
If you're using a calibrated setting, the recommended brightness setting on the Panny is less than 40%, and the picture setting is less than 60%. Even the defaults are less than 70%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Now we're talking decades of ownership, but what is something like this worth on the used market? After all, after just 3 years it will be 5% less bright. How many of us would buy a set of used speakers if we knew it would be 5% less less clear? How about an amp manufactured in 1996 that was already 20% less loud? And Plasma is very sensitive technology, too. For example, would anyone actually buy a used Plasma since "anything" could have happened to it? With CRTs, that wasn't so much a fear, and even they are practically worthless. As a point of reference, I just sold my 8 year old 42" CRT (HD-ready/1080i/Component/Widescreen) for $300, and it was immaculately clean, nothing wrong with it except that it needs an external digital tuner for the Feb.'09 switch-over. Anyhow, I bought it on sale at CC for $1450.
So will that Costco $1399 plasma sell for $300 in 8 years? I'm not so sure I'll even be able to give it away as Plasma will be seen in a worse light than CRTs are today. For one, Mitsubishi's laser technology is getting some impressive reviews. While perhaps short-lived, LCD will be seen as the Toyota Prius of TVs in this decade, while Plasma will be seen as the Escalade, a symbol of consumer extravagance (Pioneer Plasma as the Hummer?). Considering how fast CRTs became obsolete, it certainly doesn't bode well for Plasma, even if it does have a better picture.
What it's worth used is contingent on it's worth new. Three years ago, my parents bought their 50" flat screen for over $4,000. And that same model was introduced less than a year earlier with a list price of $7,000. Yet, that $1,400 Panny outperforms my parents' TV. In three years, who knows, maybe that TV will sell for $300.
I don't know where you get this idea that a plasma is an extravagance when they cost less than LCDs, while still providing superior performance in most measures. CRTs faded in the North American market precisely because people wanted the extravagance of large flat panel, wall-mountable TVs. CRTs were the only HDTV tech that could perform equally well with SD and HD programming, but people simply didn't want a hulking 200 lb. box in their living room. But, in other countries, CRT remains alive and well because it's a mature and inexpensive technology. In fact, last year global shipments of CRTs continued to outsell LCDs because of exploding demand from developing countries.
Plasma will inevitably fade away when a clearly superior screen tech comes along, but at this point, that tech has not arrived yet. And I don't see plasma fading away anytime soon, with the plasma market having a record breaking year with year-to-year sales up by more than 30%. There's talk about OLED, but so far the only OLED TV on the market is a 11" Sony that sells for more than $2,000. If OLED is all that it's cut out to be, then LCD and plasma will both go by the wayside, but not until OLED screen sizes can stretch to at least 40". Samsung says it will be at least two more years before that happens.
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