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  1. #1
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    When Widescreen DVD's don't fill your Widescreen TV

    I just rented the Aviaitor (my DVD store gets movies a week early for some reason), a pretty good movie, surprisingly Leonardo deCaprio was very good and I thought he was miscast before I saw it, and while my DVD was the widescreen edition, it was kind of a slightly letterbox widescreen- it did not fill the full screen even though it was widescreen. This is probably a matter of personal taste but if you have a widescreen TV are you best in these situations expanding the picture or just leaving it in its retarded letterbox style?
    Last edited by hershon; 05-20-2005 at 01:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Hersh, how many times are you going to keep repeating these widescreen questions? They've been answered many times before on this board.

    Here's a basic primer on how all the various aspect ratios fit together:

    standard TV aspect ratio and pre-1950 film standard= 1.33:1 (4X3)
    HDTV aspect ratio = 1.77:1 (16X9)
    standard "Academy flat" 35mm film aspect ratio = 1.85:1
    35mm film aspect ratio with anamorphic (Panavision and Cinemascope) lens = about 2.35:1

    Those blackbars are in place because movies are not filmed exactly at the 1.77:1 aspect ratio used with HDTV. What you get on your HDTV when viewing any widescreen DVD is the full image frame exactly how the director intended. Whether or not you get black bars on the screen depends on how the movie was originally framed and lensed. It's up to the director and cinematographer whether they want to go with the Academy flat aspect ratio or go with an anamorphic scope aspect ratio. If they use the 1.85:1 aspect ratio, you'll get minimal black bars on a HDTV, with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio movie, you will get more noticeable black bars. It's that simple.

    Either way, it's up to you whether or not you want to chop off some of the side image to fill the full image on a widescreen TV. This link should tell you all you need to know.

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...reenorama.html

  3. #3
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    Got it Thanks What Do You Do?

    Got the concept thanks. What do you yourself do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Hersh, how many times are you going to keep repeating these widescreen questions? They've been answered many times before on this board.

    Here's a basic primer on how all the various aspect ratios fit together:

    standard TV aspect ratio and pre-1950 film standard= 1.33:1 (4X3)
    HDTV aspect ratio = 1.77:1 (16X9)
    standard "Academy flat" 35mm film aspect ratio = 1.85:1
    35mm film aspect ratio with anamorphic (Panavision and Cinemascope) lens = about 2.35:1

    Those blackbars are in place because movies are not filmed exactly at the 1.77:1 aspect ratio used with HDTV. What you get on your HDTV when viewing any widescreen DVD is the full image frame exactly how the director intended. Whether or not you get black bars on the screen depends on how the movie was originally framed and lensed. It's up to the director and cinematographer whether they want to go with the Academy flat aspect ratio or go with an anamorphic scope aspect ratio. If they use the 1.85:1 aspect ratio, you'll get minimal black bars on a HDTV, with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio movie, you will get more noticeable black bars. It's that simple.

    Either way, it's up to you whether or not you want to chop off some of the side image to fill the full image on a widescreen TV. This link should tell you all you need to know.

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...reenorama.html

  4. #4
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    The point of the television manufacturer including format and picture size controls is to give you, the consumer, some control over what you see on your screen. Those black bars really bother some people, other don't care, some only want to see the picture exactly as was intended. This is your personal decision, I think we generally don't answer this question because it's completely subjective.
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  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I let the DVD run in full mode...whatever the aspect ratio is suppose to be, it becomes...if that means minimal, or somewhat large black bars so be it...the TV is big enough, and it beats streched corners or sides IMO, no distortion.
    Don't sweat the small stuff, I say...

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    Thanks for a Straight Answer Kexodusc

    Thanks for a straight answer. Right now I'm doing as you say and show widescreen DVD's on my standard picture mode. I still hate these ahole filmakers who if the DVD is widescreen can't have it fill out the screen without bars, etc. I don't have any problem if something is in a 4:3 format & I then have to expand the picture but it just ticks me off that if its available in widescreen its not a full widescreen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    I still hate these ahole filmakers who if the DVD is widescreen can't have it fill out the screen without bars, etc. I don't have any problem if something is in a 4:3 format & I then have to expand the picture but it just ticks me off that if its available in widescreen its not a full widescreen.
    Two points here. One, you "hate" the entire film industry because they do not conform to a format which pleases you in DVD playback. You need to talk to your shrink about this. Two, while you say you understand Woochifer's explanation, clearly you don't otherwise you would not have made the above post.

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    Give it Up Nick

    I fully understand what Woochiver says- you're another know it all who tells people they don't hear what they hear or understand what they understand. The point being is they should still give people the option to watch widescreen on a full screen without have to mess with your TV picture format just like most DVD's give you the option to watch in DTS as well as Dolby Digital but these aholes don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by nick250
    Two points here. One, you "hate" the entire film industry because they do not conform to a format which pleases you in DVD playback. You need to talk to your shrink about this. Two, while you say you understand Woochifer's explanation, clearly you don't otherwise you would not have made the above post.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    I fully understand what Woochiver says- you're another know it all who tells people they don't hear what they hear or understand what they understand. The point being is they should still give people the option to watch widescreen on a full screen without have to mess with your TV picture format just like most DVD's give you the option to watch in DTS as well as Dolby Digital but these aholes don't.
    "The option to watch widescreen on a full screen", your quote, I do believe I saw a picture of your system when you posted a while back. I do believe you have a widescreen tv from what I saw from your previous posted pictures. If you own a widescreen tv, why would you want to watch a widescreen formatted dvd in full screen. You are the biggest moron to hit these forums since Lexmark 3200. If you are watching a widescreen dvd on a full screen tv, simply just zoom in and that widescreen movie now becomes a fullscreen movie. Dink.

  10. #10
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    Cam You Are Really Not Very Smart

    Let's see I own a widescreen HD TV and you don't understand that in general widescreen 16:9 DVD's or HD TV broadcasts are meant to fill up the full widescreen TV. You are in my opinion the stupidist human being on this planet. Obviously amoebabrain, if I expand a DVD picture it (slightly) distorts the picture. Read books and increase your IQ from I'm estimating 70 to 75!
    Last edited by hershon; 05-20-2005 at 09:13 PM.

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    If the program being viewed does not fill your widescreen tv from top to bottom, side to side, it means only one thing, the program being viewed was shot at a wider aspect ratio then your widescreen tv, dink.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    Thanks for a straight answer. Right now I'm doing as you say and show widescreen DVD's on my standard picture mode. I still hate these ahole filmakers who if the DVD is widescreen can't have it fill out the screen without bars, etc. I don't have any problem if something is in a 4:3 format & I then have to expand the picture but it just ticks me off that if its available in widescreen its not a full widescreen.
    This coming from the guy who buys a stereo CD then runs it through a 6 channel DSP multi channel processor used to 'make up' the other 4 channels.

    I think 'the way the director intended' is not your priority

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    Thanks for a straight answer. Right now I'm doing as you say and show widescreen DVD's on my standard picture mode. I still hate these ahole filmakers who if the DVD is widescreen can't have it fill out the screen without bars, etc. I don't have any problem if something is in a 4:3 format & I then have to expand the picture but it just ticks me off that if its available in widescreen its not a full widescreen.
    Like I said, if you want to watch the film the way that the director intended (which is with the full image width visible), then put up with the black bars and stop complaining. If you take such issue with it, then by all means stretch the image to fit your preferences, no one's stopping you.

    Directors and cinematographers frame their films to their artistic preferences. If you don't like movies filmed in Cinemascope or Panavision, then I guess the "ahole filmakers [sp]" would include the likes of George Lucas, David Lean, Stanley Kubrick, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, and every other director who's ever used the 2.35:1 aspect ratio in their movies. They make movies to be seen in movie theaters, not for the gratification of HDTV owners who have an aversion to black bars. A Panavision scoped movie will look fine on the big screen. Don't want black bars? Go to the theater and watch a movie there.

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    I got no beef with you Wooch

    As I said, dsepite others telling me I don't, I fully grasp what you are saying. However, the directors could still put the original DVD in a full no bars widescreen format too, that's my source with this aggravation. On alot of DVD's you have the option of 2 channel stereo sound, dolby digital sound, DTS sound, etc. I'm sure the director originally shot the movie in one particular sound mode but when they made the DVD they made it possible for people to listen to it on different sound modes. They can do the same thing with letterboxed widescreen DVD's too if they wished.


    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Like I said, if you want to watch the film the way that the director intended (which is with the full image width visible), then put up with the black bars and stop complaining. If you take such issue with it, then by all means stretch the image to fit your preferences, no one's stopping you.

    Directors and cinematographers frame their films to their artistic preferences. If you don't like movies filmed in Cinemascope or Panavision, then I guess the "ahole filmakers [sp]" would include the likes of George Lucas, David Lean, Stanley Kubrick, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, and every other director who's ever used the 2.35:1 aspect ratio in their movies. They make movies to be seen in movie theaters, not for the gratification of HDTV owners who have an aversion to black bars. A Panavision scoped movie will look fine on the big screen. Don't want black bars? Go to the theater and watch a movie there.

  15. #15
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    NAbstentia- Screw the Director

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    This coming from the guy who buys a stereo CD then runs it through a 6 channel DSP multi channel processor used to 'make up' the other 4 channels.I think 'the way the director intended' is not your priority
    Screw the director. Again, if you're using your philosophy if God wanted us to fly we would have had wings not planes. Under your philosophy, the War in Iraq is good because president Bush tells us it is just.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    As I said, dsepite others telling me I don't, I fully grasp what you are saying. However, the directors could still put the original DVD in a full no bars widescreen format too, that's my source with this aggravation. On alot of DVD's you have the option of 2 channel stereo sound, dolby digital sound, DTS sound, etc. I'm sure the director originally shot the movie in one particular sound mode but when they made the DVD they made it possible for people to listen to it on different sound modes. They can do the same thing with letterboxed widescreen DVD's too if they wished.
    Now you're making no sense whatsoever. Widescreen DVDs are already enhanced for 16x9 TVs, and you're proposing that studios put out two different widescreen versions of it, one panned and scanned to 1.77:1 and the other with the letterboxed 1.85:1 or 2:35:1 frame, plus whatever release also come out in the pan & scan 1.33:1 aspect ratio? That's three different versions -- good luck selling the studios on this idea. If these black bars aggravate you, then use the zoom mode and be done with it. I just don't see it as an issue.

    Your assumptions about sound are wrong -- totally different from the issue with the aspect ratio. The format that the sound was originally recorded and the format that is used on the DVD soundtrack are totally different. Films are not originally recorded in DD or DTS because those are compressed audio formats, designed to squeeze into the limited space available on a DVD after the video data is included.

    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    Screw the director. Again, if you're using your philosophy if God wanted us to fly we would have had wings not planes. Under your philosophy, the War in Iraq is good because president Bush tells us it is just.
    Where the hell did this come from? Leave the politics and personal presumptions out of this forum. If you want to go off-topic, post it there.

    Screw the director? They're the ones who make the movies in the first place. If you don't care for their artistic wishes, then no one's forcing you to watch their movies. If all you care about is filling your TV and avoiding black bars, then forget about HDTV and stick with 4:3 and VHS.

  17. #17
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    Kiss My But

    Again, I'll like what I want to like and I don't need you or anyone else here to dictate my tastes. Just because someone directed a movie and I don't respect his artistic vision or him doesn't mean I'm not allowed to see the movie. When after everything is said and done, I don't really care what the director intended, just that I was entertained by the movie. I'd be more entertained if I could watch a lousy widescreen DVD that wasn't in a letterbox format. Expanding the TV picture format is not a satisfactory solution to me, it distorts the picture.
    It would not cost these companies superbig bucks to also offer a full sized nonletterboxed
    movie as a picture option. There are plenty of nonwidescreen DVD's that I know of that give one the option to watch the movie in letterbox or full screen format.

  18. #18
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    Thanks for a straight answer. Right now I'm doing as you say and show widescreen DVD's on my standard picture mode. I still hate these ahole filmakers who if the DVD is widescreen can't have it fill out the screen without bars, etc. I don't have any problem if something is in a 4:3 format & I then have to expand the picture but it just ticks me off that if its available in widescreen its not a full widescreen.
    Hershon, it's just about impossible for directors to do what you want. Best to just accept it and worry about more important things.

  19. #19
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    Angry Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    Again, I'll like what I want to like and I don't need you or anyone else here to dictate my tastes. Just because someone directed a movie and I don't respect his artistic vision or him doesn't mean I'm not allowed to see the movie. When after everything is said and done, I don't really care what the director intended, just that I was entertained by the movie. I'd be more entertained if I could watch a lousy widescreen DVD that wasn't in a letterbox format. Expanding the TV picture format is not a satisfactory solution to me, it distorts the picture.
    It would not cost these companies superbig bucks to also offer a full sized nonletterboxed
    movie as a picture option. There are plenty of nonwidescreen DVD's that I know of that give one the option to watch the movie in letterbox or full screen format.

    Hershon. You are snapping at one of the most Knowledgeable people on this site. If wooch is kind enough to reply to ANY of your posts,brother. You'd be smart to listen. He has forgotten more about AV than you will ever know!! He has helped more people on this form that I can count. And all you do is piss people off who try and help you.
    Wake up.....get your head out of the sand.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Hershon,

    I raise these points in earnest. Why would anyone ask so many questions about every little detail of HT and then object when people try to provide answers that might change his (mistaken) outlook? Why would anyone think that an entire industry should bow to one person's wishes that go against the grain of every serious film buff who ever had the privilege to watch movies in the correct aspect ratio in his/her own home? Who would refuse to zoom nonanamorphinc movies to fit a 1:78/1 screen because of the "distortion" that it creates and yet ask the film industry to distort their movies as shot to fit his uninformed preferences (showing nonanamorphic film anamorphically creates geometrical distortion; zooming letterbox material to fill a screen reallocates pixels--big difference).

    Monkeying with aspect ratios at the telecine stage is generally a bad idea. Most people who have been exposed to the difference between movies altered by pan and scan and the originals on which they are based are amazed at the difference in picture content, which can have profound effect on the storyline. Martin Scorcese went to big trouble a few years back to launch a campaign about this subject, using Ben Hur's chariot race as his example. Anyone who thinks that Ben Hur mutilated provides a better viewing experience is on the wrong track.

    Widescreen tvs were meant to be a compromise; if they were manufactured to cinemascope scale, black bars would have been the widescreen rule rather than exception. People with a pathological aversion to black bars can always save up for a front projector and screen, which they can frame manually according to the aspect ratio on display. In fact, a resourceful person could also create an adustable frame for an RPTV that would be largely invisible under darkened viewing conditions.

    But I wouldn't be surprised if much of the complaint about black bars were a psychological reaction to something new rather than an aesthetic issue. After all, why don't the bezel and case of the TV, which also aren't part of the picture, cause offense--or the the room beyond it? The picture's got to end somewhere. Under ordinary conditions, the willing suspension of disbelief should be based on the entertainment, not the physical enviroment.

    Ed

  21. #21
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    This coming from the guy who buys a stereo CD then runs it through a 6 channel DSP multi channel processor used to 'make up' the other 4 channels.

    I think 'the way the director intended' is not your priority
    And you dont approve of this so that makes it wrong? There seems to be a few to many that have the opinion that if you do something i dont like,its wrong. If i want black bars on the side of my 50",then thats what i want. If i like RBCD in 5 channal stereo,then you know what,its ok. Hershon doesnt always get it at first but theres plenty of others who asks the same questions or the wrong question and they dont seem to get jumped on as he does. I think he's learning this stuff just as i am but some of you need a tad more patience. We know your heads are exploding with info on the "right way" but some of us are a bit thicker{me for sure} so bit the tongue,smile,explain and move on. We told hershon to put some on his ignore list,that works both ways if he upsets some of you so much. Me,i'll just pm him with some links that explains thing that he can read rather then being to smart or mean.
    Look & Listen

  22. #22
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Hershon, it's just about impossible for directors to do what you want. Best to just accept it and worry about more important things.
    Thats the best answer and advice and you didnt even say anything mean or nasty. I just slap the DVD in the player and whatever shows up,i'll watch it that way. Now if you have a widescreen,between the different screen modes,cant you almost watch it anyway you want,almost?
    Look & Listen

  23. #23
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    And you dont approve of this so that makes it wrong? .
    I didn't say it was WRONG, if you like it then fine. Point is, it wasn't intended to be played that way.

    And agreeing with the guy who says "screw the director, what does he know" is not helping your case.

  24. #24
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    And you dont approve of this so that makes it wrong? There seems to be a few to many that have the opinion that if you do something i dont like,its wrong. If i want black bars on the side of my 50",then thats what i want. If i like RBCD in 5 channal stereo,then you know what,its ok. Hershon doesnt always get it at first but theres plenty of others who asks the same questions or the wrong question and they dont seem to get jumped on as he does. I think he's learning this stuff just as i am but some of you need a tad more patience. We know your heads are exploding with info on the "right way" but some of us are a bit thicker{me for sure} so bit the tongue,smile,explain and move on. We told hershon to put some on his ignore list,that works both ways if he upsets some of you so much. Me,i'll just pm him with some links that explains thing that he can read rather then being to smart or mean.



    Read Hershon posts # 8,10,15,17. Don't you dare make us out to be the bad guy here. Hershon brings on his own problems. We all give him advice. And when Hershon doesn't like the answer......he gets lippy and gives the attitude. I know you guys are friends, but come on.......

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    Again I'm suppose to smile and say thanks for insulting me

    It's not the "advice" I'm objecting too, its the personal direct insult to me given along with the advice. All I asked was a simple question that if you have a widescreen HD TV player and the widescreen DVD you rent is letterbox format, do you prefer to expand your TV picture or not? That isn't rocket science or asking someone to reveal personal sensitive secrets! I just got one straight answer from Kexodusk and a bunch of crap from everyone else personally criticising me for asking such a question. You people think I should smile & be greatful when someone offers "advice" and then says words to the effect "you are an idiot, moron" et all. Sorry, that's not acceptable to me. And I don't care if someone is Mother Therasa if they treat me like a chump, I'll respond in kind. That's how I was raised in the hood.

    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    Hershon,

    I raise these points in earnest. Why would anyone ask so many questions about every little detail of HT and then object when people try to provide answers that might change his (mistaken) outlook? Why would anyone think that an entire industry should bow to one person's wishes that go against the grain of every serious film buff who ever had the privilege to watch movies in the correct aspect ratio in his/her own home? Who would refuse to zoom nonanamorphinc movies to fit a 1:78/1 screen because of the "distortion" that it creates and yet ask the film industry to distort their movies as shot to fit his uninformed preferences (showing nonanamorphic film anamorphically creates geometrical distortion; zooming letterbox material to fill a screen reallocates pixels--big difference).

    Monkeying with aspect ratios at the telecine stage is generally a bad idea. Most people who have been exposed to the difference between movies altered by pan and scan and the originals on which they are based are amazed at the difference in picture content, which can have profound effect on the storyline. Martin Scorcese went to big trouble a few years back to launch a campaign about this subject, using Ben Hur's chariot race as his example. Anyone who thinks that Ben Hur mutilated provides a better viewing experience is on the wrong track.

    Widescreen tvs were meant to be a compromise; if they were manufactured to cinemascope scale, black bars would have been the widescreen rule rather than exception. People with a pathological aversion to black bars can always save up for a front projector and screen, which they can frame manually according to the aspect ratio on display. In fact, a resourceful person could also create an adustable frame for an RPTV that would be largely invisible under darkened viewing conditions.

    But I wouldn't be surprised if much of the complaint about black bars were a psychological reaction to something new rather than an aesthetic issue. After all, why don't the bezel and case of the TV, which also aren't part of the picture, cause offense--or the the room beyond it? The picture's got to end somewhere. Under ordinary conditions, the willing suspension of disbelief should be based on the entertainment, not the physical enviroment.

    Ed
    Last edited by hershon; 05-21-2005 at 06:49 AM.

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