Watts what exactly is the sound quality difference?

[hershon]

Can somebody please try to explain to me in non technical human language what is the difference in sound quality in regards to wattage. Assume hypothetically, I'm playing the Who on a classic rock remastered CD on the same DVD player at the same listening volume on a 200 watts receiver speaker system and a 600 watts receiver speaker system in a 20 foot (average sized) living room. For clarification, the listening volume is the same (say it was set on 5 for the 200 watt system and 2 on the 600 watt system). What will I actually hear to my ear differently-anything or will the difference in sound quality be negligible. Will the drums, vocals, guitar, or bass sound different. Will there be any more seperation, clarity, richness or warmth in the sound. I am not interested in what the difference would be hearing classical music or how somewthing is numerically different. I just want to know what the difference will be in what I'm actually hearing. Appreciate any response. Why this doesn't seem to be spelled out on any web page is beyond me.

[Geoffcin]

Can somebody please try to explain to me in non technical human language what is the difference in sound quality in regards to wattage. Assume hypothetically, I'm playing the Who on a classic rock remastered CD on the same DVD player at the same listening volume on a 200 watts receiver speaker system and a 600 watts receiver speaker system in a 20 foot (average sized) living room. For clarification, the listening volume is the same (say it was set on 5 for the 200 watt system and 2 on the 600 watt system). What will I actually hear to my ear differently-anything or will the difference in sound quality be negligible. Will the drums, vocals, guitar, or bass sound different. Will there be any more seperation, clarity, richness or warmth in the sound. I am not interested in what the difference would be hearing classical music or how somewthing is numerically different. I just want to know what the difference will be in what I'm actually hearing. Appreciate any response. Why this doesn't seem to be spelled out on any web page is beyond me.

The reason it's not spelled out is because it means nothing. Watts do not equate into sound quality, or even loudness for that matter.

[kexodusc]

The reason it's not spelled out is because it means nothing. Watts do not equate into sound quality, or even loudness for that matter.

What Geoffcin says is correct. I have a 70 watt per channel Adcom amplifier that sounds better at moderate to higher volumes than my 85 watt per channel home theater receiver.. And it goes louder! Figure that out!!!

There are some advantages to having more power. Bass frequencies are generally power hungry, musical spikes have more headroom, and there can be less distortion at louder volumes (but not necessarily). If an amp is well built and well designed though, watts won't necessarily make anything sound better.

As far as sound quality goes, well, some of the nicest sounding amps out there have less than 20 watts per channel, some less than 10 wpc even!!! And their plenty loud enough!

You're asking the right questions!

[jackz4000]

the quality of the amp section will probably make more of a difference than the watts. There are different ways of measuring and marketing a watt. So watt measurement should be equal, ie: 100 rms watts per channel @ 8 ohms all channels driven, 20-20,000 w/ 0.05% THD. Of course source, cables, room acoustics, speakers will also make a difference. Bass usually needs more power than the mid's. Think quality, before watts. Watts can be misleading.

[Geoffcin]

What Geoffcin says is correct. I have a 70 watt per channel Adcom amplifier that sounds better at moderate to higher volumes than my 85 watt per channel home theater receiver.. And it goes louder! Figure that out!!!

There are some advantages to having more power. Bass frequencies are generally power hungry, musical spikes have more headroom, and there can be less distortion at louder volumes (but not necessarily). If an amp is well built and well designed though, watts won't necessarily make anything sound better.

As far as sound quality goes, well, some of the nicest sounding amps out there have less than 20 watts per channel, some less than 10 wpc even!!! And their plenty loud enough!

You're asking the right questions!

While I enjoy the sound of a low powered SET amp, they do have some caviates about using them, and with which speakers. On the other hand, if it's well made, even a 50 watt SS amp can change your idea about how much power you need to drive your speakers. With that being said, I have heard rumors about how good your speakers can sound when you hook them up to amps like the Musical Fidelity KW series. Of course no many of us have 100k to spend on amps, but you can see where I'm getting at; All things being equal MORE power is better!

What we really should be talking about is; What makes an amp "good" regardless of power, and where does the law of diminshing returns take hold.

[kexodusc]

Good point Geoffcin...I wasn't implying that less power is better, certainly not the case, I was trying suggest that the difference between a good 50 watt amp, and a good 100 watt amp isn't necessarily as much as you'd think...definitely NOT double the sound quality. Not even double the volume.

In fact, I'd probably take a 40 watt Arcam integrated amplifier over a 125 watt Marantz or Yamaha stereo receiver anyday.

[Geoffcin]

Good point Geoffcin...I wasn't implying that less power is better, certainly not the case, I was trying suggest that the difference between a good 50 watt amp, and a good 100 watt amp isn't necessarily as much as you'd think...definitely NOT double the sound quality. Not even double the volume.

In fact, I'd probably take a 40 watt Arcam integrated amplifier over a 125 watt Marantz or Yamaha stereo receiver anyday.

Yes, it's almost scary to compare a reciever with an intergrated, or seperate amp, of the same or even LOWER power. It leads you to think that the specs are useless to discribe sound quality, or even POWER?! Which in my view they are. This is at the heart of the posted question, and there's no easy answer for him.

[mtrycraft]

What Geoffcin says is correct. I have a 70 watt per channel Adcom amplifier that sounds better at moderate to higher volumes than my 85 watt per channel home theater receiver.. And it goes louder! Figure that out!!!

!

I doubt you will like th eanswer

[kexodusc]

I doubt you will like th eanswer

Don't worry about hurting my feelings...actually if you've got the answer , I'd love to hear it. Thanks.

[mtrycraft]

Don't worry about hurting my feelings...actually if you've got the answer , I'd love to hear it. Thanks.

OK

I have a 70 watt per channel Adcom amplifier that sounds better at moderate to higher volumes than my 85 watt per channel home theater receiver..

Unless you did a controlled comparison of these two amps, your perception is unreliable at best.


And it goes louder! Figure that out!!!

Same.

There are some advantages to having more power. Bass frequencies are generally power hungry, musical spikes have more headroom, and there can be less distortion at louder volumes (but not necessarily). If an amp is well built and well designed though, watts won't necessarily make anything sound better.

Your last sentence is correct
You need a sub

As far as sound quality goes, well, some of the nicest sounding amps out there have less than 20 watts per channel, some less than 10 wpc even!!! And their plenty loud enough!

All relative to what you consider nice and what is loud enough. But that also depends on the speaker sensitivity

[mtrycraft]

Can somebody please try to explain to me in non technical human language what is the difference in sound quality in regards to wattage. Assume hypothetically, I'm playing the Who on a classic rock remastered CD on the same DVD player at the same listening volume on a 200 watts receiver speaker system and a 600 watts receiver speaker system in a 20 foot (average sized) living room. For clarification, the listening volume is the same (say it was set on 5 for the 200 watt system and 2 on the 600 watt system). What will I actually hear to my ear differently-anything or will the difference in sound quality be negligible. Will the drums, vocals, guitar, or bass sound different. Will there be any more seperation, clarity, richness or warmth in the sound. I am not interested in what the difference would be hearing classical music or how somewthing is numerically different. I just want to know what the difference will be in what I'm actually hearing. Appreciate any response. Why this doesn't seem to be spelled out on any web page is beyond me.

Watts are just power rated into a certain load at certain THD, FR band, etc.
Modern, well designed components are transparent.
Different speakers will need different amount of power to drive them to the desired loudness levels.
Volume control position will tell you nothing.

[hershon]

Appreciate you making the attempt to anser this. If watts apparently is not going to make the difference in hearing the sound a classic CD on a home movie system, can somebody tell me what is? Any systems you'd recommend for under $600 with or without a DVD player/receiver? If so what will be the difference between what I'm hearing in this system then on my Koss C-220 200 watts system? Is the moral of this thread going to be, do not buy a system online or on EBAY without actually listening to it first? Thanks

[mtrycraft]

Appreciate you making the attempt to anser this. If watts apparently is not going to make the difference in hearing the sound a classic CD on a home movie system, can somebody tell me what is? Any systems you'd recommend for under $600 with or without a DVD player/receiver? If so what will be the difference between what I'm hearing in this system then on my Koss C-220 200 watts system? Is the moral of this thread going to be, do not buy a system online or on EBAY without actually listening to it first? Thanks

I am not sure if I can answere all your concerns.
Speakers, room acoustics and the recording itself it the most critical part of playback. If a speaker is sensitive, that is it playes loud with 1 watts of power as measured by standard protocol, you will need less power. If it is not sensitive, you will need much more. To double the perceived loudenss you need 10 times the power, a logarithmic scale.

What setup do you have now? What is it you dislike about it? If it is the speakers that you dislike, you need to actually listen to them, more the merrier

But remember, that listening room will sound different from yours at home. Your acoustic memory to remember one listeing room to another is very poor and unreliable. You may want to try to take one home that you are serious about.

[hershon]

My immediate concern on my Koss C-220 (200 watts home theater) is that about 80% of the reviews on Amazon are negative and they say the sound is tinny and the bass is subpar. It's Ok to me in that the DVD's sound OK in surround sound and their is good seperation and stereo sound when I play classic rock CD's, however, it doesn't sound as warm as the CD's I play in my bedroom on a simple two satellite 6 watts each , 1 22 watt subwoofer speaker system (Altec Lansing ACS- these are computer speakers but they sound better than any speakers I've ever had and use them as speakers for my regular stereo system) attached to a Technics SL-PD687 CD player (the subwoofer controls the volume and you don't need to EQ it). These speakers use to be $150 now you can get them on EBAY for $40 and if nothing else they're the best computer speakers I've ever heard, so good I use them as my main stereo speakers as well.

Anyway, I'm trying to see if its worth my while to upgrade my home theater system to something listing for $600 or less that will make my regular CD's sound even better than the stereo unit I have in my bedroom that's 44 watts total. Albeit I was in Best Buy and when I put on a Who CD on a Yamaha 600 watts system, the sound was not significantly better than my Koss C-220 200 watts system, albeit the room accoustics/ambience were different.

Any comments, recommendation would be appreciated as I'm always looking to improve myself if I can afford it.

I am not sure if I can answere all your concerns.
Speakers, room acoustics and the recording itself it the most critical part of playback. If a speaker is sensitive, that is it playes loud with 1 watts of power as measured by standard protocol, you will need less power. If it is not sensitive, you will need much more. To double the perceived loudenss you need 10 times the power, a logarithmic scale.

What setup do you have now? What is it you dislike about it? If it is the speakers that you dislike, you need to actually listen to them, more the merrier

But remember, that listening room will sound different from yours at home. Your acoustic memory to remember one listeing room to another is very poor and unreliable. You may want to try to take one home that you are serious about.

[mtrycraft]

My immediate concern on my Koss C-220 (200 watts home theater) is that about 80% of the reviews on Amazon are negative and they say the sound is tinny and the bass is subpar. It's Ok to me in that the DVD's sound OK in surround sound and their is good seperation and stereo sound when I play classic rock CD's, however, it doesn't sound as warm as the CD's I play in my bedroom on a simple two satellite 6 watts each , 1 22 watt subwoofer speaker system (Altec Lansing ACS- these are computer speakers but they sound better than any speakers I've ever had and use them as speakers for my regular stereo system) attached to a Technics SL-PD687 CD player (the subwoofer controls the volume and you don't need to EQ it). These speakers use to be $150 now you can get them on EBAY for $40 and if nothing else they're the best computer speakers I've ever heard, so good I use them as my main stereo speakers as well.

Anyway, I'm trying to see if its worth my while to upgrade my home theater system to something listing for $600 or less that will make my regular CD's sound even better than the stereo unit I have in my bedroom that's 44 watts total. Albeit I was in Best Buy and when I put on a Who CD on a Yamaha 600 watts system, the sound was not significantly better than my Koss C-220 200 watts system, albeit the room accoustics/ambience were different.

Any comments, recommendation would be appreciated as I'm always looking to improve myself if I can afford it.

I wouldn't expect a difference in amps from what you have, that C220, and in store stuff.
You are trying to compare a 6 watt amp to the C220, on computer speakers? It is that 6 watt amp and the speaker combination.
I would not sell that C220 as it can be useful. Better speakers?

[jackz4000]

I sure don't mean to be a snotty audio kinda guy, 'cuz I'm not. I got no real idea of what you are lookin' for...exactly. Watts? Can't give you any raves about the Koss HT box set-up or about your Altec computer sound. They are probably..."cute". But, not much more than that. Moon and Townsend would have never listened to their tracks on that stuff.

You need some audio listening experience which you are not really gonna get---with what you got. Here m'boy we are talking HIGH FIDELITY and I got a feeling you ain't never really HEARD it. You will know it the second you hear it...it will knock your socks off. Probably it ain't at the big box stores, but it is out there.

Watts? There are watts and then there are watts. So many variables for the ear. If your Koss was upgraded to 600 watts, there would probably not be a huge difference. You could, for example compare audibly the 200 watts on your Koss HT to....say 200 watts from a Krell or a Levinson amp. A Koss HT watt and a Levinson watt are going to be quite different. One would infer that because of the very different and audible sound. Because we are talking QUALITY. They will definitely sound much different---like from a different planet. Speakers? They are going to make a big difference too.

Forget all about your watts questions....its not really answerable because of variables. Instead, start learning about all the really great equipment out there--- which ain't at Best Buy and Circuit City. Go out and find some audio stores near you or 200 miles away and go and listen. If you are looking for great sound, then you have alot to learn and ain't nothing wrong with learning new things. Tons of experienced and savy guys on this board. Takes a little time. First thing you gotta do---is listen to some high end gear and feel the music. Think high fidelity first and watts...second. Watts alone, are for the ignorant. Like old PT Barnum said, " For the suckers." Either start to learn or be a comfy potato with you box set. Best thing---go out and listen to some great equipment by manufacturers you may never have heard of. Feel the music. Cheerio.