Want to hang onto your old DVD's? It will cost you

[pixelthis]

A FRIEND has bought a new receiver, a Denon 391. 200 bucks on sale.
Now this is a cheap receiver, but it has four HDMI inputs, 3d ready. I am hooking it up
this weekend.
NOW SOME have said they are hanging onto their old DVD players.Now, I know this is an entry level machine, but there are no component inputs, none.
If you want to hook your old DVD player up and its not one of those fake "upconverters"
with HDMI, forget it unless you want to use composite, or SVHS.
And there is only one of those.
If you do want to hang onto your old DVD's, I would suggest a cheap player with HDMI, because it looks like component is gradually going away.
I mean, not one component? Maybe theres one on your TV,but certainly not more than one.
Wave of the future. This trend is going to trickle up.

[evilspoons]

Put the DVD in your blu-ray player?? It's perfectly capable of reading a DVD and decoding MPEG-2 video... since there are Blu-ray discs with MPEG-2 on them anyway, just at higher resolution!

[recoveryone]

I like your verbiage in this post Pix (I tip my hat to you Sir)

[GMichael]

I guess it's a good thing that I bought that HD-DVD player then.

[evilspoons]

I guess it's a good thing that I bought that HD-DVD player then.

D'oh!

(So did I - two of them. And quite a few movies. Ugh.)

[GMichael]

D'oh!

(So did I - two of them. And quite a few movies. Ugh.)

Not to worry. Those movies will play many times, and the player is a great DVD upscaler.

[E-Stat]

If you want to hook your old DVD player up and its not one of those fake "upconverters"
with HDMI, forget it

This is a "costly" problem? I have a similar challenge in reverse. While the BR player, HD cable box and monitor all use DVI / HDMI connections, my older NAD receiver doesn't have HDMI connectivity. Solution: plug the audio into the audio receiver and the video into the monitor. Cost? One more button to push when switching sources.

rw

[basite]

but there are no component inputs, none.
If you want to hook your old DVD player up and its not one of those fake "upconverters"
with HDMI, forget it unless you want to use composite, or SVHS.
And there is only one of those.

for some reason, this is Denon's new design strategy. their inputs are limited to say at the least. Neither any pre outs, nor discrete surround inputs...

I'm going with the new Yamaha line for the attic home theatre here, an RX-V667, or 767
for their price, I think it's one of the better receivers out there. Inputs & outputs to spare, very nice interface, good setup possibilities, lots of features and very good sound, if not as good or better as a denon receiver of the same price...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Geoffcin]

This is a "costly" problem? I have a similar challenge in reverse. While the BR player, HD cable box and monitor all use DVI / HDMI connections, my older NAD receiver doesn't have HDMI connectivity. Solution: plug the audio into the audio receiver and the video into the monitor. Cost? One more button to push when switching sources.

rw

Your better off anyway. I've always preferred a direct connection for video even though my Pioneer receiver can switch them. This goes for component or HDMI.

[pixelthis]

I like your verbiage in this post Pix (I tip my hat to you Sir)

Thank you.
And yes, you can play DVD on a BLU player, but that means you will need to get a BLU player, and once you get one of those, your interest in DVD will fade, trust me.
And how long will monitors carry component?
Maybe its just nostalgia, this connection has been around since shortly after DVD, I
have several component cables at a hundred or so each. Knew it was going to happen tho, HDMI is just so much better.

[pixelthis]

Your better off anyway. I've always preferred a direct connection for video even though my Pioneer receiver can switch them. This goes for component or HDMI.

You might want to reconsider. Can't speak for Pioneer but my receivers pass through is
transparent. AND I still have one component dvd player, everything goes through one
pipe, very convienent.

[pixelthis]

BUT really, SVHS has been around since the mid-eighties, maybe sooner, no hurry to get rid of it, but component is already halfway out the door.
Oh well.

[evilspoons]

SVHS has been around since the mid-eighties, maybe sooner

April 1987.

And as for nostalgia, pthhhthtbt. I don't spend a lot of time looking at or petting my cables between my components, I just like to see the picture on the TV. Component cables are difficult to work with (3 wires per video signal, woo hoo), analog, and just generally pointless. Doing digital to analog to digital again is incredibly stupid (i.e. DVD to component cables to LCD TV).

For what it's worth, data can be sent over HDMI in Y/Pb/Pr or RGB depending on the devices at each end and how it's encoded on the source material.

One of the problems with sending everything through your receiver is whether the video is processed or not; if you have component in and HDMI out, your receiver is doing ADC and if it's doing a good job it probably takes time. Unless you correct for it (which the receiver should) you will see a delay between your audio and video. Most of the time this goes unnoticed... but try playing a rhythm game like Rock Band/Guitar hero with 100+ ms lag and talk to me again. Ughh.

[recoveryone]

I run all of my units through my Pioneer 81TXV and that includes SVHS VCR, Component SACD/DVD-A/DVD player and HDMI BD player all going out HDMI to LCD, never had any issue with sound lag. Now when I brought my 81TXV, that was one of the things I looked for, was the amount of connections that I would need for my older units and future ones.

Unless you have the money to upgrade your whole system to use the latest connections, then you may have made a poor choice for your own enjoyment. I still have my unique 6 cassette changer (analog) that I still use from time to time. Just as those that still use a turntable. Now Denon has just limited itself to people that only have the newest items, HDMI connections? anybody have a CD player with HDMI? or a TT a VHS player. HDMI is great and has been through 4 upgrades in as many years, (my AVR is only 4yrs old with 1.2) and now its at 1.4, so does that mean my AVR is obsolete. lets not forget, that HDMI days are limited with CAT6 cable on the horizon, then what? do we all throw out our gear and get new stuff that supports CAT6. Even the gaming industry caught on making sure that each new console can be backward compatible with the large collection of games that many still play. I think this amp/AVR your friend brought is just a starter unit that has limited connections in general and with the 3D support it seems its geared towards those that just brought that new LED 3D TV.

[E-Stat]

And yes, you can play DVD on a BLU player, but that means you will need to get a BLU player, and once you get one of those, your interest in DVD will fade, trust me.

You're the expert on the concept of "ignorance is bliss"!

rw

[pixelthis]

I run all of my units through my Pioneer 81TXV and that includes SVHS VCR, Component SACD/DVD-A/DVD player and HDMI BD player all going out HDMI to LCD, never had any issue with sound lag. Now when I brought my 81TXV, that was one of the things I looked for, was the amount of connections that I would need for my older units and future ones.

Unless you have the money to upgrade your whole system to use the latest connections, then you may have made a poor choice for your own enjoyment. I still have my unique 6 cassette changer (analog) that I still use from time to time. Just as those that still use a turntable. Now Denon has just limited itself to people that only have the newest items, HDMI connections? anybody have a CD player with HDMI? or a TT a VHS player. HDMI is great and has been through 4 upgrades in as many years, (my AVR is only 4yrs old with 1.2) and now its at 1.4, so does that mean my AVR is obsolete. lets not forget, that HDMI days are limited with CAT6 cable on the horizon, then what? do we all throw out our gear and get new stuff that supports CAT6. Even the gaming industry caught on making sure that each new console can be backward compatible with the large collection of games that many still play. I think this amp/AVR your friend brought is just a starter unit that has limited connections in general and with the 3D support it seems its geared towards those that just brought that new LED 3D TV.

It is. Basically a HTIB without speakers or input device.
He got a Crutchfields today, and at my advice, went with an Onkyo 508.
Has better amps, Burr Brown dacs, THX, Auddessy, 7.1, and more, for not much more money.
"Bargain receivers" are never much of a bargain. THE 508 also has two component
inputs, but I dont know if it will scale component to HDMI. Probably not. Receivers
in this price range tend to just have video switching that is just that, a switch.
The main thing is the dacs. My friend loves audio more than HT.
But with him he might change his mind a dozen times until he buys anything.

[recoveryone]

Glad you were able to show him the light

[pixelthis]

You're the expert on the concept of "ignorance is bliss"!

rw

AND how many VHS tapes did you watch this week?
When VHS is all you have AND its all you're used to, its fine, tolerable at least.
I rented three movies this weekend, one a DVD. THE dvd was the best movie(EAZY A,
rent it) but the video was a bit disappointing after watching Splice on Blu-ray.
Anyway ignorance must not be bliss, as you are so obviously a miserable cranky old sot.

[pixelthis]

Glad you were able to show him the light

WELL, you wont get audiophile anything in this range of course, but BURR browns
have to help...some.

[BadAssJazz]

Totally off topic -- and hence, off point -- but I haven't seen so many references to VHS and SVHS since I last visited the folks over the holidays. Talk about the Lazarus effect, I don't think my parents will ever let the VHS format (or VCR's for that matter) die completely. They'll be the real life version of George and Martha of the post-apocalyptic Book of Eli , grooving to the "oldies" as it were.

[GMichael]

Totally off topic -- and hence, off point -- but I haven't seen so many references to VHS and SVHS since I last visited the folks over the holidays. Talk about the Lazarus effect, I don't think my parents will ever let the VHS format (or VCR's for that matter) die completely. They'll be the real life version of George and Martha of the post-apocalyptic Book of Eli , grooving to the "oldies" as it were.

I still call recording a CD, ‘taping an album.’
Recording on my DVR is called, ‘taping a movie.”

Some things seem to stick with you.

[dean_martin]

I got a little frustrated when I discovered that I couldn't use a regular component cable with the Nintendo Wii. I have to buy one of those multi cables with component and audio on one end and Wii console connection on the other. I won't watch Netflix until I get it. I tried to watch Dexter during the free trial period and it looked awful. I'm not sure how much improvement I'll get with the wii component cable, but I'm determined to try it. Hope it's worth the xtra $$. I'm beginning to wonder if this thing was obsolete out of the box.

[nathanisgreen]

Do you think upconversion in general is bogus? I was kinda hoping I'd be able to use a $20 sony dvd player without much grief. Like your friend I just found an older receiver for 200, an integra dvr 7.4channel. I was never planning to use it for the V part in AV anyway, but if I want to hook it up to watch wayne's world for the 800th time, can I still do that?

[Woochifer]

Do you think upconversion in general is bogus? I was kinda hoping I'd be able to use a $20 sony dvd player without much grief. Like your friend I just found an older receiver for 200, an integra dvr 7.4channel. I was never planning to use it for the V part in AV anyway, but if I want to hook it up to watch wayne's world for the 800th time, can I still do that?

Not bogus, but the benefits of upconversion have been way oversold, just as progressive scan was years earlier. Upconversion does not add resolution that's not there, and unlike what a lot of the clueless tech writers say, the resulting picture is NOT "near HD" quality.

Basically, DVD is a 480i format, and features like progressive scan and upconversion don't do you an ounce of good if you still use an analog TV. With fixed pixel TVs (which all flat panel TVs are), the TV will only display the native format. EVERY non-native signal needs to be deinterlaced and scaled just for the TV to display anything correctly.

If you use a 1080p TV, then any incoming 480i/480p/720p/1080i gets "upconverted" by the TV. If the incoming signal is 1080p, then the TV displays it natively without any further processing. In other words, there's nothing magical about upconversion. If the DVD player doesn't upconvert the signal, then the TV will.

Any benefits to upconverting DVD players depend on the quality of the video processing circuitry, compared to the processors inside the TV. Early HDTVs generally did a poor job with deinterlacing and scaling, so having a good DVD player did improve the picture quality.

Nowadays, the video processors that come with HDTVs are much better than they were a few years ago, so the benefit to upconversion has lessened. With newer TVs, you're generally better off using the HDMI connections, because you eliminate a redundant D-A/A-D conversion and newer TVs just seem more adept at handling digital signals than analog ones.

[pixelthis]

Not bogus, but the benefits of upconversion have been way oversold, just as progressive scan was years earlier. Upconversion does not add resolution that's not there, and unlike what a lot of the clueless tech writers say, the resulting picture is NOT "near HD" quality.

Basically, DVD is a 480i format, and features like progressive scan and upconversion don't do you an ounce of good if you still use an analog TV. With fixed pixel TVs (which all flat panel TVs are), the TV will only display the native format. EVERY non-native signal needs to be deinterlaced and scaled just for the TV to display anything correctly.

If you use a 1080p TV, then any incoming 480i/480p/720p/1080i gets "upconverted" by the TV. If the incoming signal is 1080p, then the TV displays it natively without any further processing. In other words, there's nothing magical about upconversion. If the DVD player doesn't upconvert the signal, then the TV will.

Any benefits to upconverting DVD players depend on the quality of the video processing circuitry, compared to the processors inside the TV. Early HDTVs generally did a poor job with deinterlacing and scaling, so having a good DVD player did improve the picture quality.

Nowadays, the video processors that come with HDTVs are much better than they were a few years ago, so the benefit to upconversion has lessened. With newer TVs, you're generally better off using the HDMI connections, because you eliminate a redundant D-A/A-D conversion and newer TVs just seem more adept at handling digital signals than analog ones.

What he said.
One more thing. When very "clean" 480i (like non progressive DVD) is de-interlaced
you get a genuine 480p picture, and when upconverted to the tv's native format tends to
look quite nice. GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT, basically.