Wall color for HT

[Mingus]

My neighbor is renovating their basement and setting up a HT. The question is, what is the best color for the wall where the screen is located. I've read someplace that the color should be a neutral tone - like gray. His wife prefers lilac (a feng shui color) to match the decor. Does the color of the other walls make a difference.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

My neighbor is renovating their basement and setting up a HT. The question is, what is the best color for the wall where the screen is located. I've read someplace that the color should be a neutral tone - like gray. His wife prefers lilac (a feng shui color) to match the decor. Does the color of the other walls make a difference.

The proper shade for the front wall should be black. His wife should really stay out of this one, as she is trying to be decorative when in reality this should be more for performance and function. To enhance contrast the front wall should always be black. Using black assures that whatever light that bounces back from the side and rear walls will be absorbed, which enhances the contrast profoundly.

[pixelthis]

THE BOOK says 6500k, for everything in the room.
Believe it or no, but everything affects your picture, even your clothes, although not much.
So black would be decent as a background for the screen, but if you're not the morbid type,
any dark color will do, really.

[Mingus]

Thanks for the infos. They settled on chocalate brown, a dark color - the lilac is out. I learn from the past that Feng Shui principles and HT applications don't mix well. What about the other three walls. Does it have any bearing on the picture.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Thanks for the infos. They settled on chocalate brown, a dark color - the lilac is out. I learn from the past that Feng Shui principles and HT applications don't mix well. What about the other three walls. Does it have any bearing on the picture.

Chocolate brown is perfectly acceptable. The other three walls should also be dark as well, so as not to reflect light back to the screen which also reduces contrast. Ideally, the whole room should be dark for just that reason.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

THE BOOK says 6500k, for everything in the room.
Believe it or no, but everything affects your picture, even your clothes, although not much.
So black would be decent as a background for the screen, but if you're not the morbid type,
any dark color will do, really.

There is no book that says 6500k everywhere pix jeeze louise!!!!

Bias lights are used for folks who sit far away from their sets(which are usually 40" and under) - far enough away that the set does not take up your field of view. In this case when watching your set with the lights off, your eyes have to adjust quickly for the changing light on the screen. This can cause eye fatigue. A bias light is used to provide a bit of light to keep the pupils more open(thereby reducing eyestrain), and not forcing them to make rapid changes scene by scene. The light should be placed low and behind the set, and should have a color temperature of 6500k.

This does not apply to the people who sit the proper distance for HD, or to those folks who have projection systems. The screens are so big that it takes up your field of view(which also gives out more light to the eyes), which keeps the pupil open most of the time thereby preventing eye strain.

[pixelthis]

There is no book that says 6500k everywhere pix jeeze louise!!!!

Bias lights are used for folks who sit far away from their sets(which are usually 40" and under) - far enough away that the set does not take up your field of view. In this case when watching your set with the lights off, your eyes have to adjust quickly for the changing light on the screen. This can cause eye fatigue. A bias light is used to provide a bit of light to keep the pupils more open(thereby reducing eyestrain), and not forcing them to make rapid changes scene by scene. The light should be placed low and behind the set, and should have a color temperature of 6500k.

This does not apply to the people who sit the proper distance for HD, or to those folks who have projection systems. The screens are so big that it takes up your field of view(which also gives out more light to the eyes), which keeps the pupil open most of the time thereby preventing eye strain.

Its called a BACKLIGHT, what I HAVE BEEN SAYING that you need and you have been saying you don't need, my reasons for saying you need it the same as the reasons you cited above, doesnt matter if you have a projection, direct view,
or PUPPET THEATER.
6500K (the proper temp for video pictures) is the ideal type of paint for HT, they sell it
and while it might not go with the decor, it has several advantages.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Its called a BACKLIGHT, what I HAVE BEEN SAYING that you need and you have been saying you don't need, my reasons for saying you need it the same as the reasons you cited above, doesnt matter if you have a projection, direct view,
or PUPPET THEATER.
6500K (the proper temp for video pictures) is the ideal type of paint for HT, they sell it
and while it might not go with the decor, it has several advantages.

Pix, you have a smaller display than my smallest display, and you don't sit the proper distance from the television (1.5 heights away for HD content), so you need a backlight. My smallest television is 55", and I sit exactly 1.5 screen heights away. You don't need a back light with this set up. When you sit too far away in a dark room(the proper way to watch movies), and you have a bright source constantly changing light levels in darkness, that is the problem as it makes the pupils rapidly have to adjust to the changing light levels. When you sit closer, there is more light hitting the pupils, which allows them to stay more open, and not have to rapidly adjust to constant changes as much, no eyestrain is the result.

6500k is not for video pictures, it is the color temperature for the whitest whites. Get your facts straight. Video pictures change from scene to scene, so they cannot just be 6500k

[E-Stat]

they sell it

Who is "they"?

rw

[E-Stat]

The proper shade for the front wall should be black. His wife should really stay out of this one, as she is trying to be decorative when in reality this should be more for performance and function.

One of my (single) audio buddies took a slightly different approach with his dedicated video room to meet the same objective. While the walls are green, he taped black plastic sheets across all the windows in the room so that no outside light enters. Not WAF friendly in the least.

rw

[Geoffcin]

In addition all paint should be flat, or preferably even matte. Reflections off even a dark but shiny surface can cause distractions.

[Geoffcin]

My sister has the Philips with multi-color ambi-light. That thing is a trip!

1.5x eh? So your saying I should be ~8ft from my 60"? Seems a little close to me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

My sister has the Philips with multi-color ambi-light. That thing is a trip!

1.5x eh? So your saying I should be ~8ft from my 60"? Seems a little close to me.

If your set is a 1080p, any further away and you will not see all that resolution. I sit exactly 7ft from my 55", and I have had no problems with that distance. No bias light needed, and at this distance I meet both SMPTE and THX specs for ideal viewing angle.

[Geoffcin]

If your set is a 1080p, any further away and you will not see all that resolution. I sit exactly 7ft from my 55", and I have had no problems with that distance. No bias light needed, and at this distance I meet both SMPTE and THX specs for ideal viewing angle.

Your inherently wrong there. Your basing your opinion on an idea that all people have similar visual acuity. This is simply not so. Although it's been getting worse, my eyesight is a measured 20/15 with my left eye closer to 20/10. Many people have similar ability natually, and also with optically corrected vision. 20/10 is TWICE the resolution of 20/20, which is what I assume your measurment is for. So taking your measurments and adding in my personal data I could be sitting somewhere between 50% to 100% FURTHER away and still manage to pick up all the available detail.

Of course none of this takes into account the temporal aspect of visual observation. Movement, especially fast movement, lowers the brains ability to process detail in real time. So with fast moving action I should be sitting even CLOSER. Studies have shown that in high detail situation that are moving fully 90% of the detail is discarded by the brain. If we take this into account and use your numbers then I should be sitting 90% closer to the screen! That would put me about 1ft away from my 60" screen. It would be quite absurd to sit that close, but at least I would get all the detail. On the other hand, I think I'll stay about~12ft away for now.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Your inherently wrong there. Your basing your opinion on an idea that all people have similar visual acuity. This is simply not so. Although it's been getting worse, my eyesight is a measured 20/15 with my left eye closer to 20/10. Many people have similar ability natually, and also with optically corrected vision. 20/10 is TWICE the resolution of 20/20, which is what I assume your measurment is for. So taking your measurments and adding in my personal data I could be sitting somewhere between 50% to 100% FURTHER away and still manage to pick up all the available detail.

The standards for viewing are not built around individual eye issues, they are based around 20/20 viewing. So i am not inherently wrong here. Your personal issues are your personal issues, this has nothing to do with establishing a standard viewing distance.

Of course none of this takes into account the temporal aspect of visual observation. Movement, especially fast movement, lowers the brains ability to process detail in real time. So with fast moving action I should be sitting even CLOSER. Studies have shown that in high detail situation that are moving fully 90% of the detail is discarded by the brain. If we take this into account and use your numbers then I should be sitting 90% closer to the screen! That would put me about 1ft away from my 60" screen. It would be quite absurd to sit that close, but at least I would get all the detail. On the other hand, I think I'll stay about~12ft away for now.

Since you have no definition of what is considered fast motion, then I cannot see how your theory would oppose and nullify the standards that are set. This is an air sandwich as far as I am concerned. What is fast motion, define the speed. How does that correlate to moving action on a television screen. Does this indentifiy the outdoors, or watching television. Is this based on movement of both objects, or a single object with the viewer stationary. In other words, How does this "information" fit into television viewing, of which we are stationary, and the object travel to fixed distance defined by the size of the screen?

Without some sort of context, you last paragraph is meaningless. SMPTE and THX came to their conclusions based on testing with TELEVISIONS specifically, not just regular everyday viewing we do outdoors.

[Geoffcin]

The standards for viewing are not built around individual eye issues, they are based around 20/20 viewing. So i am not inherently wrong here. Your personal issues are your personal issues, this has nothing to do with establishing a standard viewing distance.



Since you have no definition of what is considered fast motion, then I cannot see how your theory would oppose and nullify the standards that are set. This is an air sandwich as far as I am concerned. What is fast motion, define the speed. How does that correlate to moving action on a television screen. Does this indentifiy the outdoors, or watching television.

Without some sort of context, you last paragraph is meaningless. SMPTE and THX came to their conclusions based on testing with TELEVISIONS specifically, not just regular everyday viewing we do outdoors.

Again, your just posting what you've been told. These guidelines are meaningless unless you can understand what they convey. And what they convey is a simplistic understanding of visual acuity at best. To say that this "seating distance rule" should be based on the simple 20/20 arc-minute acuity rule that sitting an exact distance from the set and viewing a static image would get you, as if you were watching a screen like you reading a Snellen test chart is absurd. Everything is in motion on screen.

I am a little shocked though that someone working for the industry has never heard of static visual acuity vs.dynamic visual acuity. In my field, Aerospace engineering, we've heard of these terms, and they are in regular use when it comes to engineering displays for aircraft.

[audio amateur]

Sir T, I also have a (widescreen) 32" SD screen. What's the rule for viewing distance here?

[pixelthis]

Sir T, I also have a (widescreen) 32" SD screen. What's the rule for viewing distance here?

THROW out your obsolete set and get a decent HDTV, at least 37".
And use a backlight. Sir talky calls it a bias light, but no matter what your screen size you need one(Talky wrong again).
No, you dont need one in a theater, but even with a 100 in screen , your screen is small compared to a theater, and you need one or several backlights to even out the light in your room , and reduce eyestrain.
THINK YOU CAN SIT IN A DARK ROOM and watch video? fine, do so.
BUT JUST REMEMBER, you can't get new eyes at Best Buy.
ASK anybody with eye problems how much fun they are. FUNNY HOW HT fans obsess
over their gear, except for the two irreplaceable and most valuable pieces of gear,
ears and eyes.
USE A BACKLIGHT.

[audio amateur]

THROW out your obsolete set and get a decent HDTV, at least 37".
And use a backlight. Sir talky calls it a bias light, but no matter what your screen size you need one(Talky wrong again).
No, you dont need one in a theater, but even with a 100 in screen , your screen is small compared to a theater, and you need one or several backlights to even out the light in your room , and reduce eyestrain.
THINK YOU CAN SIT IN A DARK ROOM and watch video? fine, do so.
BUT JUST REMEMBER, you can't get new eyes at Best Buy.
ASK anybody with eye problems how much fun they are. FUNNY HOW HT fans obsess
over their gear, except for the two irreplaceable and most valuable pieces of gear,
ears and eyes.
USE A BACKLIGHT.

I will purchase a projector when the funds arrive In the meantime, Im doing with this screen that I got dirt cheap about a month ago.

[Mingus]

My viewing distance in the LR is 15 ft for a 720p 50" screen, BR is 12 ft for 1080p 40",screen and basement 12 ft for 1080p 46" screen. I do have back lighting for all the sets. This might help a little. For me it seems OK, however maybe I am just use to it.

[filecat13]

Perhaps Mingus can clarify this, but the OP use of the word "screen" seems clearly to be referencing a projection screen, not a television or monitor. If that truly is the case, then all the carrying on about back lighting or bias lighting the screen is nonsense. If the case is that it's a TV or monitor, then things are different.

Those who use TVs or monitors in their systems are well advised to do what many recommend and give their eyes some help. OTOH, if you're using a projector and screen, It's complete and utter nonsense to think about backlighting or bias lighting your projection wall.

In the home theater (similar to a commercial theater) where one is using a projector and AT screen, the notion of backlighting is beyond ludicrous.

[Geoffcin]

So, is it 30 degrees or 40.04? Perhaps I'm missing something but the most "immersive cinematic experience” seems a little vague to me. How was that defined, or did a bunch of THX engineers just sit in a screening room and say; That's what looks coolest to us"

It's pretty telling that their recommendation turns out to exactly match the 1 arc-minute standard used for calcualting 20/20 vision on a static chart.

For me I like the 30 degree rule better, but it would matter on the subject material. If it's a romantic comedy 3 degrees would be too much for me.

Oh, and off topic; PS is getting a PM from me about his sig. It will be changed.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So, is it 30 degrees or 40.04? Perhaps I'm missing something but the most "immersive cinematic experience” seems a little vague to me. How was that defined, or did a bunch of THX engineers just sit in a screening room and say; That's what looks coolest to us"

For Hometheater it is 36 degrees, for the theater it is 40.04. 30 degrees for SMPTE is for smaller theaters with screens that are a more moderate size than what we currently see in theaters now. 30 degrees is their minimum, and 36 is their maximum for larger theaters we currently have. They actually conducted individual tests over a period of 5 years using a large sample of viewers, and they also based their tests on a white that Fujitsu submitted to SMPTE a while ago.

It's pretty telling that their recommendation turns out to exactly match the 1 arc-minute standard used for calcualting 20/20 vision on a static chart.

For me I like the 30 degree rule better, but it would matter on the subject material. If it's a romantic comedy 3 degrees would be too much for me.

LOL, I get that last statement! I admit, if you are not used to looking at a screen with a 36 degree viewing angle, it would probably make me uncomfortable as well. But after 25 years of working on sound for film, I have gotten so used to it, that nothing else works for me.

Oh, and off topic; PS is getting a PM from me about his sig. It will be changed.

Thank you much for the resolution.

[bfalls]

Kudos Sir T. I agree with all you've said. It's the same I learned in ISF certification. You've provided excellent information with explanation most should understand. You'll always going to run into those who do things because "it's the way I like it", or "the way we've always done it before" and those who just want to disagree because you're Sir T. You won't change their minds, but don't stop trying. The rest of us understand and appreciate the education. Maybe instead of worrying about visual acuity, the focus should be on density.