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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Look, you recommended the entire room be 6500k, which is ridiculous. An all white room will kill the contrast of the set, and cause blacks to look a solid grey after you calibrate your set in a room this shade. How stupid is that!
Bias lights are more helpful when the set is small, and you sit far away from it. Otherwise, it is pretty much unnecessary when you sit the proper distance away from the set.
Do you see any bias lights in a movie theater? No! The small lights you see down the isleways are not nearly enough light to counter what is happening on that big screen.
WHICH IS THE POINT, the movies are a BIIIIG screen.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
WHICH IS THE POINT, the movies are a BIIIIG screen.:1:
When I sit 7ft from a 55" and get a 36 degree viewing angle, the television seems really big as well. That is why a bias light is unnecessary, and that is exactly my point!
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It's a long one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
Don't hold back, tell up what you really think.
Unless you have your own amphitheater, the max on most home "screens"( a term which
covers both direct view and projectors) is around a 100".
Sounds big, right? Well, compared to WHAT?
A commercial screen in a movie theater, which is usually THIRTY FEET?
Or larger, most times.
A venue screen, which can run fifty to two hundred feet?
Like talkys girlfriend, its all relative, certain screens might seem big, but a ten footer is
a shrimp compared to the movies, which is why I still go, on occasion.
You don't have to light it up like gods waiting room, but some lighting in any HT room can't hurt.:1:
Really, I am holding back, but thanks for your permission.
Since the term "screen" covers many definitions, I asked for clarification. The OP gave it. Your need to bring up an answered inquiry is irrelevant.
In my case it's 110", a trifle larger than 100". However, math and logic can be our friend, so follow me. A viewing distance of 12' on a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen gives a viewing angle of 36.8 degrees. The SMPTE standard EG-18-1994 recommends a minimum viewing angle of 30 degrees and THX recommends 36 degrees. These recommendations are based on 20/20 vision, and these fields of view (or closer) will result in a more immersive experience, and also lessen eye strain caused by watching a smaller image in a dark room. These principles apply at home and at the cinema.
Just for grins, if a cinema has a 60' wide screen in 16:9 ratio, then you have to sit 90 feet from the screen to replicate the viewing angle in my little HT. For a 40' screen the distance would be 60 feet. Everybody knows the formula by now.
Let's put someone's 55" TV in the formula. A viewing distance of 7' gives a 31.9 degree viewing angle: SMPTE says "okay" while THX says "not quite." At 6', you've got 36.8 degrees, so THX is happy, too. That is identical to what I get in my HT with my 110" screen. As Mr. T has said many times, at that distance, nothing more is needed.
But wait a minute! My small 46" Sharp LCDTV in the bedroom gets watched from nearly 14 feet away on the love seat or 17 feet away on the bed. There is no way I'd watch that thing from 6' away for any period of time. I'd have to sit on the floor or put the seat in the middle of the room. At the comfortable distances I do watch from, the viewing angle is something around 13 degrees. So my field of vision is much wider than what I'm watching, and, yes, I do keep an ambient light on so my eyes don't strain in that case.
Nonetheless, when my field of vision is engulfed by the screen down in the HT, no lights are allowed. My GF even complains about the blue LEDs on the amps polluting the room with light. So, even without my own amphitheater, I can replicate the viewing conditions of a cinema.
Just for completion for the OP, the screen wall is covered top to bottom with acoustical panels ranging from 1" to 4" thick depending on location. They are covered in black cloth, so the entire wall absorbs sound and light, truly a "dead end." The side and rear walls are painted a dark, flat chocolate color, as are the front two quarters of the ceiling. (The ceiling is divided into four quadrants to break up sound.) Black velour curtains cover the front half of each side wall as well, helping to break up early reflections, and the rest of the walls have acoustical panels, sound diffusers, and surround speakers at appropriate locations. Against the chocolate walls the panels are covered in chocolate-colored cloth, and the diffusers (Steven Klein Sound Room Saturns) are painted the same color as the walls.
I left the two rear ceiling quadrants a sort of dusky white to avoid the total man cave stigma for guests, and the equipment racks are inset into the left side wall near the rear of the room. Most of the equipment allows the status lights to be turned off, but the amps do not, hence the complaints about the blue LEDs polluting the room. I had a custom panel designed to put in front that blocks the light but not the air flow.
Each user can determine how he/she wants to handle light in the HT. But there are reasons we endeavor to have light controlled rooms and dark walls to cut light reflections. In my case, those reasons do not include making a light controlled room so I can leave on a light while watching a movie. :mad2:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13
However, math and logic can be our friend, so follow me. A viewing distance of 12' on a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen gives a viewing angle of 36.8 degrees. The SMPTE standard EG-18-1994 recommends a minimum viewing angle of 30 degrees and THX recommends 36 degrees.These recommendations are based on 20/20 vision, and these fields of view (or closer) will result in a more immersive experience, and also lessen eye strain caused by watching a smaller image in a dark room.
Given that SMPTE and THX sitting distance recommendations are primary based on eye capabilty to see full TV resolution, I don't think eye strain or fatigue come into play for those recommendations.
For example, if you change the TV resolution from 1080 to 720p or 480, your sitting distance will also have to change (sit further) so your eyes can see TV's full resolution. So as you can see, eye fatigue is not a factor in those sittings recommendations.
Quote:
That is identical to what I get in my HT with my 110" screen. As Mr. T has said many times, at that distance, nothing more is needed.
Ambient light recommendation are primary for non projection systems. So your HT do not qualify :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13
Really, I am holding back, but thanks for your permission.
Since the term "screen" covers many definitions, I asked for clarification. The OP gave it. Your need to bring up an answered inquiry is irrelevant.
In my case it's 110", a trifle larger than 100". However, math and logic can be our friend, so follow me. A viewing distance of 12' on a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen gives a viewing angle of 36.8 degrees. The SMPTE standard EG-18-1994 recommends a minimum viewing angle of 30 degrees and THX recommends 36 degrees. These recommendations are based on 20/20 vision, and these fields of view (or closer) will result in a more immersive experience, and also lessen eye strain caused by watching a smaller image in a dark room. These principles apply at home and at the cinema.
Just for grins, if a cinema has a 60' wide screen in 16:9 ratio, then you have to sit 90 feet from the screen to replicate the viewing angle in my little HT. For a 40' screen the distance would be 60 feet. Everybody knows the formula by now.
Let's put someone's 55" TV in the formula. A viewing distance of 7' gives a 31.9 degree viewing angle: SMPTE says "okay" while THX says "not quite." At 6', you've got 36.8 degrees, so THX is happy, too. That is identical to what I get in my HT with my 110" screen. As Mr. T has said many times, at that distance, nothing more is needed.
But wait a minute! My small 46" Sharp LCDTV in the bedroom gets watched from nearly 14 feet away on the love seat or 17 feet away on the bed. There is no way I'd watch that thing from 6' away for any period of time. I'd have to sit on the floor or put the seat in the middle of the room. At the comfortable distances I do watch from, the viewing angle is something around 13 degrees. So my field of vision is much wider than what I'm watching, and, yes, I do keep an ambient light on so my eyes don't strain in that case.
Nonetheless, when my field of vision is engulfed by the screen down in the HT, no lights are allowed. My GF even complains about the blue LEDs on the amps polluting the room with light. So, even without my own amphitheater, I can replicate the viewing conditions of a cinema.
Just for completion for the OP, the screen wall is covered top to bottom with acoustical panels ranging from 1" to 4" thick depending on location. They are covered in black cloth, so the entire wall absorbs sound and light, truly a "dead end." The side and rear walls are painted a dark, flat chocolate color, as are the front two quarters of the ceiling. (The ceiling is divided into four quadrants to break up sound.) Black velour curtains cover the front half of each side wall as well, helping to break up early reflections, and the rest of the walls have acoustical panels, sound diffusers, and surround speakers at appropriate locations. Against the chocolate walls the panels are covered in chocolate-colored cloth, and the diffusers (Steven Klein Sound Room Saturns) are painted the same color as the walls.
I left the two rear ceiling quadrants a sort of dusky white to avoid the total man cave stigma for guests, and the equipment racks are inset into the left side wall near the rear of the room. Most of the equipment allows the status lights to be turned off, but the amps do not, hence the complaints about the blue LEDs polluting the room. I had a custom panel designed to put in front that blocks the light but not the air flow.
Each user can determine how he/she wants to handle light in the HT. But there are reasons we endeavor to have light controlled rooms and dark walls to cut light reflections. In my case, those reasons do not include making a light controlled room so I can leave on a light while watching a movie. :mad2:
This man get's it!!!
I remeasured my distance to my 55" and I was mistaken. It was 6ft, not 7ft. When I created this setup, I knew I had followed THX distance guidelines when setting up the distance to the viewing seat.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
Given that SMPTE and THX sitting distance recommendations are primary based on eye capabilty to see full TV resolution, I don't think eye strain or fatigue come into play for those recommendations.
For example, if you change the TV resolution from 1080 to 720p or 480, your sitting distance will also have to change (sit further) so your eyes can see TV's full resolution. So as you can see, eye fatigue is not a factor in those sittings recommendations.
Agreed
Quote:
Ambient light recommendation are primary for non projection systems. So your HT do not qualify :)
Three of my HT's are non projection systems, and I don't use bias lights on any of them. Viewing distance is what determines the need for a bias light. Since most folks don't sit close enough to the televisions, it is needed. For those folks like myself who do, they are totally unnecessary. SMPTE and THX guidelines can be used on any HDTV display, not just on projection systems.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
This man get's it!!!
I remeasured my distance to my 55" and I was mistaken. It was 6ft, not 7ft. When I created this setup, I knew I had followed THX distance guidelines when setting up the distance to the viewing seat.
You "get" it too.
Eyestrain, macular degeneration, shortened viewing times, etc.
BUT IF YOU so enjoy sitting in the dark like a hermit watching whatever you do watch...:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Viewing distance is what determines the need for a bias light. Since most folks don't sit close enough to the televisions, it is needed.
I would say that is a fair statement. By looking at SMPTE and THX guidelines for sitting distance (1080p)....
30 inch TV= 4 feet
34 inch TV= 4.5 feet
40 inch TV= 5.3 feet
50 inch TV= 6.5 feet
60 inch TV= 8 feet
...it become obvious why most people do not sit close enough. The viewing distance seem too short.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
I would say that is a fair statement. By looking at SMPTE and THX guidelines for sitting distance (1080p)....
30 inch TV= 4 feet
34 inch TV= 4.5 feet
40 inch TV= 5.3 feet
50 inch TV= 6.5 feet
60 inch TV= 8 feet
...it become obvious why most people do not sit close enough. The viewing distance seem too short.
Considering most folks are continuing the viewing distance habits they developed from watching SD television at 480i resolution, no wonder they think the distance it too short. When viewing HDTV images, you have to sit closer so you can see the detail in those pixels, there is more than enough resolution for a closer seat. Scan lines are no longer a worry, because there are none. Folks just have not changed their habits to reflect the fact they are seeing far more resolution than they are used to. What adds to this, is that most folks do not get their televisions properly calibrated, so sitting closer to something that is effectively burning their eyes out is probably not that comfortable.
I would imagine that when 4K resolution hits the streets, they will still be sitting where they were sitting when 480i ruled the roost!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
I would say that is a fair statement. By looking at SMPTE and THX guidelines for sitting distance (1080p)....
30 inch TV= 4 feet
34 inch TV= 4.5 feet
40 inch TV= 5.3 feet
50 inch TV= 6.5 feet
60 inch TV= 8 feet
...it become obvious why most people do not sit close enough. The viewing distance seem too short.
I dunno, thats about where I sit for my 42"...:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I would imagine that when 4K resolution hits the streets, they will still be sitting where they were sitting when 480i ruled the roost!
I hate to see THX/SMPTE sitting recommendations for 4k resolution TV which the stitting will be even closer than 1080 TVs. But at some point, the eye "burn out" will definitely become a factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
I dunno, thats about where I sit for my 42"...
Then you don't need a bias light :D
Not withstanding seeing scan lines (SD) I tried different sittng distances from 32 inch TV, and eye comfort zone seem to be around 8 feet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
I hate to see THX/SMPTE sitting recommendations for 4k resolution TV which the stitting will be even closer than 1080 TVs. But at some point, the eye "burn out" will definitely become a factor.
Don't worry about it, we will get 4k TV about the time we get warp drive and decent microwave
pizza.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
I hate to see THX/SMPTE sitting recommendations for 4k resolution TV which the stitting will be even closer than 1080 TVs. But at some point, the eye "burn out" will definitely become a factor.
.
Actually you won't be sitting any closer, the screen is going to have to get much bigger than the ones we see now. 4K on a 100" screen= waste of resolution. You are going to need something closer to 150" to get any benefit from 4K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
I would say that is a fair statement. By looking at SMPTE and THX guidelines for sitting distance (1080p)....
30 inch TV= 4 feet
34 inch TV= 4.5 feet
40 inch TV= 5.3 feet
50 inch TV= 6.5 feet
60 inch TV= 8 feet
...it become obvious why most people do not sit close enough. The viewing distance seem too short.
I'm soon to be shopping for a new TV. While these distances are the standards for 1080p material and would be the ideal for viewing when I'm watching a Blu-ray movie, that's only about a quarter of my viewing. Do you have any guidelines for suggested viewing (or screen size based on where the couch is) for general viewing of lower resolution content? My television viewing is a mix of non-HD cable programs and OTA HD major network sports broadcasts.
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Hi Johnny
You didn't mention the screen TV size, but.....
For 720P HD sources, recommended sitting distance is..
20 inch TV= 4 feet
26 inch TV= 5 feet
30 inch TV= 6 feet
34 inch TV= 6.7 feet
40 inch TV= 8 feet
50 inch TV= 10 feet
60 inch TV= 12 feet
For DVD/non-hd cable (480p) source, recommended sitting distance is..
20 inch TV= 7 feet
26 inch TV= 9 feet
30 inch TV= 10.5 feet
34 inch TV= 12 feet
40 inch TV= 14 feet
50 inch TV= 17.5 feet
60 inch TV= 21 feet.
Hope that help.
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Thanks, Smokey! It is good to have all recommended distances in one spot. It looks like I'm going to have to shop for a couch with wheels on it based on my viewing! I've been looking at sets between 46 and 55 inches and my tentative seating position is about ten feet. I'd love to have a dedicated "theater" which was optimized for movies but realize I'm going to have to make compromises as most viewing will not be blu-ray. Looks like I'll also be reading the new a/v receiver reviews very carefully for upscaling performance.
I've enjoyed this thread although my wall color was decided back when I picked out the stone. However, this does make a case for going a little darker for the walls than I'd originally thought...
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Great information on this thread. I just found out my neightbor will be getting a 55 inch 1080p television with the main seating about 10 to 11 feet away. He will have backlighting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
For DVD/non-hd cable (480p) source, recommended sitting distance is..
20 inch TV= 7 feet
26 inch TV= 9 feet
30 inch TV= 10.5 feet
34 inch TV= 12 feet
40 inch TV= 14 feet
50 inch TV= 17.5 feet
60 inch TV= 21 feet.
Hope that help.
Wow, don't pull out the old lo-fi VHS tapes or you'll be sitting somewhere in the neighbors house!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingus
Great information on this thread. I just found out my neightbor will be getting a 55 inch 1080p television with the main seating about 10 to 11 feet away. He will have backlighting.
Your neighbor is very smart.
What a lot don't get is that you err on the side of caution with something you can't replace,
like a classic amp, or a set of eyes, is all I AM SAYING.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
Your neighbor is very smart.
What a lot don't get is that you err on the side of caution with something you can't replace,
like a classic amp, or a set of eyes, is all I AM SAYING.:1:
If you understood how the eye works, then you would realize the profound ignorance of this statement.
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I miss Slumpy and his purple home theater room...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
I miss Slumpy and his purple home theater room...
Is Slumpy cousins with Pookie? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If you understood how the eye works, then you would realize the profound ignorance of this statement.
AND if you understood that they don't come in a blister pack at Sears, maybe you wouldn't
be so ignorant.
Do you realize how much they teach about how to use your eyes at the law enforcement
academy?
TEMPORARILY losing your sight when it gets dark, or suddenly light, is an inconvenience
sometimes, sometimes it can kill you.
All I am saying.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
AND if you understood that they don't come in a blister pack at Sears, maybe you wouldn't
be so ignorant.
Do you realize how much they teach about how to use your eyes at the law enforcement
academy?
TEMPORARILY losing your sight when it gets dark, or suddenly light, is an inconvenience
sometimes, sometimes it can kill you.
All I am saying.:1:
Law enforcement....Hometheater...what a stretch. A properly calibrated set can not blind you, not even in the dark. Get a grip man!
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[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]Law enforcement....Hometheater...what a stretch.QUOTE]
He might be on to something...:
Popcorn with M&Ms doesn't seem particularly well-suited for my dog's digestive system but is usually served whenever I watch a movie. An eye must be kept on the dog so that she doesn't sneak a bowl full of the deliciously buttery/salty/sweet treats that can produce an eye-watering funk when passed through a yellow lab. The reason you have to trade your contact lenses for those sweet BCGs (birth control glasses) when you enter boot camp? Tear gas.
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[QUOTE=Johnny B. Galt]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Law enforcement....Hometheater...what a stretch.QUOTE]
He might be on to something...:
Popcorn with M&Ms doesn't seem particularly well-suited for my dog's digestive system but is usually served whenever I watch a movie. An eye must be kept on the dog so that she doesn't sneak a bowl full of the deliciously buttery/salty/sweet treats that can produce an eye-watering funk when passed through a yellow lab. The reason you have to trade your contact lenses for those sweet BCGs (birth control glasses) when you enter boot camp? Tear gas.
You do know that chocolate is poisonous to doggies, don't you?:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Law enforcement....Hometheater...what a stretch. A properly calibrated set can not blind you, not even in the dark. Get a grip man!
GET A CLUE.
I err on the side of safety, I KEEP MY EYES.
You side (as usual) with being an arrogant prick that thinks he knows everything, and maybe you will be okay.
MAYBE you will be shopping for a new pair of eyes on CHINESE net sites(retinas, sixty grand a pair).:1:
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