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  1. #1
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Uh oh HDMI is in trouble!!!

    Well, a shot across the bow of HDMI has been done by LG, Sony Pictures, Samsung, and Valens Semiconductor in the form of HDBaseT. It is my opinion this is a direct challenge to HDMI as a future connection because it can do all HDMI does, and it uses a cable that we are all familar with - which is Cat 5 and 6. Unlike HDMI, the grunt work will take place in the device, and not in the cable itself. That means upgrades can be implemented within any player instead of a new standard implemented in the cable itself. No more new HDMI standards needed here.

    Since all of these folks are invovled with Google TV, it is my guess this is how the product will be connected(and interconnected). If this takes a hold, look for it to be included in other products, and eventually replacing HDMI itself.

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...hello-hdbaset/

    This is why I think this will be so. HDBasedT converges full uncompressed HD video, audio, 100BaseT Ethernet, high power over cable and various control signals through a single 100m/328ft CAT5e/6 LAN cable. HDBaseT has the bandwidth to support the highest video resolutions such as full HD 1080p as well as 3D and 2Kx4K formats. HDBaseT is the first to provide all-in-one connectivity, making it possible for a single-connector TV to receive power, video/audio, Internet and control signals from the same cable. This is forward thinking, and makes it a natural predecessor to HDMI. The signals can travel up to 328ft, so those like me that have projectors a considerable distance from their equipment racks will require only one cable, and no amplifiers or boosters like you need with HDMI over that same distance. That is significant, and the fact that you can send power to the device over that same cable is a huge benny.

    I am looking forward to this, as I need to find something to do with all of that leftover Cat 6 cable I used to wire my studio.
    Sir Terrence

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  2. #2
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    Although I should be jumping up and down, you know I am not a HDMI fan by no means, I still have to say where was this a few years ago and seems like one more thing to confuse and discourage consumers. Consumers are already upgrade weary. I believe there is more behind this push than finally some one pulling their head out of their butt.

  3. #3
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Sigh...

    Great, I'm just getting my friends up to speed with HDMI and now you're throwing another format at us????

    Grrrrrr...

    Worf

  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    Great, I'm just getting my friends up to speed with HDMI and now you're throwing another format at us????

    Grrrrrr...

    Worf
    At least there is no learning curve for this one. You know plenty about Ethernet cable right? That all you need to know, the cable takes care of the rest. No upgrades or spec changes every five years(or less), you can push any upgrade into the product itself via a firmware upgrade. No standards to learn, its all easy peasy.
    Sir Terrence

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  5. #5
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Although I should be jumping up and down, you know I am not a HDMI fan by no means, I still have to say where was this a few years ago and seems like one more thing to confuse and discourage consumers.
    There is no confusion here, and no new standard to learn about. This is a true plug and play solution with no learning curve. That one plug will power the component, allow access to the internet, and pass all of the signals as well. So it is true plug and play solution.


    Consumers are already upgrade weary. I believe there is more behind this push than finally some one pulling their head out of their butt.
    This is not something you have to upgrade to. When you purchase your next Blu ray player or Television several years down the road, the connection will probably already on the product. Don't be so cynical, I think everyone(including the manufacturers) are sick of the updates to the standard, and just want something that is fully upgradeable to handle future devices without changing the specifications of the transmitting wire. Ethernet cable is as ubiquitous as telephone cord, so there should be no problem with its usage.

    This is much like 3D. Folks say they won't buy a set for 3D, when five years down the road most all sets will come with this feature built in anyway. I have three televisions with Ethernet ports, so this was a natural migration in my opinion.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 07-05-2010 at 02:28 PM.
    Sir Terrence

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  6. #6
    Charm Thai™
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    HDMI sucks. Thanks god i have no devices that force me to use it. I will applaud anything that compromises it's future.

  7. #7
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shodulik
    HDMI sucks. Thanks god i have no devices that force me to use it. I will applaud anything that compromises it's future.
    While fully recognizing your possible confusion with HDMI I would have to say it is the best connection we have seen so far in terms of both video and audio to date. Let me just point out some things in defense of HDMI.

    From introduction HDMI 1.0 was able to do everything that the Blu ray format required at that time. Deliver 1080p video images, and PCM audio uncompressed. When the studios realized that MPEG-2 and lossless PCM audio(two space hogs) was not going to allow coveted extra content and BD live, they wanted the ability to incorporate the lossless codecs that offer better storage packing on the disc.

    Panasonic being a HDMI founder, wanted DVD-A adopted into the HDMI standards(which 1.0 did not support), so HDMI 1.1 was adopted to accommodate DVD-A - a format that was never envisioned for either Blu ray or HD DVD for which HDMI was supporting. It did open the door for Dolby TrueHD which has its foundation built into the DVD-A standard. This was politics, and not the fault of HDMI overall.

    Once DVD-A was adopted into HDMI standards, Sony was not to be outdone. HDMI 1.2 brought in support for DSD, and 1.2a revision brought in support for CEC which allowed direct communication with all CEC supported devices. This was also politics, and not the fault of the HDMI standard itself.

    As I eluded to before, the studio wanted a more efficient way of packing lossless audio on Blu ray and HD DVD disc. The meant no PCM uncompressed audio which is the least efficient way of packing audio on to disc. BD-25 was the most utilized storage disc at the time, as the BD-50 lines were still being developed, or tweaked to optimize better yields. HDMI brought DTS-HD Master audio and Dolby TrueHD into the specifications to allow more efficient packing of the audio data. This was a request from the studios, not the desires of the HDMI committee. This also allowed DST, SACD space saving data stream which operated much like both Dts and Dolby TrueHD, but for SACD only. All other versions of the HDMI 1.3 standard(1.3a, 1.3b) never really effected consumers, but more so for manufacturers. Once again, this was no envisioned in the original standard, but was adopted at the request of the Hollywood film studios.

    So with closer scrutiny, you can see that the problem with HDMI adoption and implementation was more of the fault of individual members seeking after their own interests, rather than being based on the original vision of the HDMI founders. Other things played a role in HDMI's full specification not being implemented at introduction(chipsets and transmitters for higher data rates and original specs for the Blu ray format) were also not available at the time.

    This is not in defense of HDMI, but posted for contextual purposes only. Please do not shoot the messenger, he is just reporting the facts, not his own personal views(how is that for a disclaimer).
    Sir Terrence

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  8. #8
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Hmmmph...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    At least there is no learning curve for this one. You know plenty about Ethernet cable right? That all you need to know, the cable takes care of the rest. No upgrades or spec changes every five years(or less), you can push any upgrade into the product itself via a firmware upgrade. No standards to learn, its all easy peasy.
    If ANYBODY but you was a tellin' me this I'd be throwing the "fisheye" at em. But in all our years together you've NEVER steered me or mine wrong so... if you say it'll be an improvement and a relatively painless migration, I'll take you at your word.

    Worf

  9. #9
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Well, a shot across the bow of HDMI has been done by LG, Sony Pictures, Samsung, and Valens Semiconductor in the form of HDBaseT.
    It just illustrates that some try to re-invent the wheel when such is unnecessary.

    rw

  10. #10
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Sir T - what about digital rights management and copy protection and all those nasties that HDMI was supposed to make pain-free for the end-user. Would it still be there in Cat 5 and 6 cables?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Sir T - what about digital rights management and copy protection and all those nasties that HDMI was supposed to make pain-free for the end-user. Would it still be there in Cat 5 and 6 cables?

    I read the article that Sir T. mentioned. It sounds like not much is really changing other than the physical medium, at least at this point. Howerver, if they stick to the standard ethernet protocols, then almost anything is possible, including wireless connections. Any content protection now in place, would still be in place. I don't see that changing.

    I'd be weery though. It references using cat5/cat6 cabling, but doesn't seem to say outright that it will match current spec of standard network 10/100/1000 connections. I guess we'll see shortly.

  12. #12
    3LB
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    ah...the joys of waiting
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  13. #13
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Sir T - what about digital rights management and copy protection and all those nasties that HDMI was supposed to make pain-free for the end-user. Would it still be there in Cat 5 and 6 cables?
    Yes. All of those protocols can be implemented the same way as it did with HDMI.
    Sir Terrence

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Yes. All of those protocols can be implemented the same way as it did with HDMI.

    Sounds like a slight extension to the current standard, IEEE-568B that's available now.

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