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Thinking of Blu-ray? Something you need to know.
I have the BD-P1200, this player has it's issues with playback of certain movies and receiving firmware updates for remedy. I'd also like to get a unit with the newest hi rez audio support. So I've been thinking about putting this unit into the living room where mostly my children watch movies and buying a new BR player for the HT system. I've been reading some reviews and, not so fast!
Based on the reviews I've been reading of more current Blu-ray players I've found that they all are using the same video decoder chip and this single chip decoder does both BR and standard DVD video decoding. So, what's wrong with that you say, well, the standard DVD video from these players.... in a word are average at best. One reviewer said you can find better SD playback on a sub $100.00 DVD player. I found this to be alarming. Myself, and I'm sure most wanting to gravitate to BR do not want to do so to the sacrafice of good SD playback. As much as the movie companies would like me to replace all my movies with Blu-ray it isn't happening. I have a large collection of DVD's and I want them to look as good as possible.
If you want excellent SD playback in a Blu-ray player, despite any drawbacks, you better grab a Samsung BD-P1200 or Panasonic DMP-10, now! before they are all gone. These two players are the benchmark for SD playback from a BR player and one shoot out gave the 1200 best SD playback from any video disc player. Even the newer DMP-30's DVD playback pales in comparison to Panasonic's first gen DMP-10. The 1200 and 10 both use separate video processing for BR and SD. No other BR players provide that any more. They are all relying on this single chip to do it all, and this chip is a let down for standard DVD playback. This is also something to consider when looking at high dollar BR players like Pioneer Elite or Sony s2000ES, if every one is using the same chip can these players be worth the extra money?? Meaning, can Sony or Pioneer do anything after the chip to improve on either BR or SD playback over a machine at half the price?
After winning the format war I find this issue a real slap in the face to unsuspecting consumers. If the word ever gets around it will also be a drawback to the format catching on. It seems like the past couple years, around the time of upscaling, HDMI and promise of HD formats the industry has taken a turn for the worst and doesn't seem to care about improving. I can see why some are losing their enthusiasm for HT and opting for 2.1 or less. Well, i will reserve further rant and industry bashing until others chime in. Maybe it's not as bad as I perceive it to be. Hopefully the manufacturer's will see this error and correct it.
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The chip I refer to is the Sigma Designs. I found a review of the Elite 95f and may have answered my own question. It does use the same Sigma chip as the Samsung 1400 and Panasonic dmp30 and many others. The 95f didn't fare any better in either BR playback or SD playback. I have read several reviews of BR players with this sigma chip and 2 things are glaringly consistent, not so good upscaling from 1080i to 1080p for discs which are only 1080i and poor standard DVD picture quality.
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How old are you, twelve?
There is no reason for ANY blu player to do a good job on SD dvd.
If it did there wouldnt be as much incentive to replace your DVD'S with
Blu versions, now would there?:1:
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Pixel makes some sense on this one. Why should the makers of BR players care that much about SD DVD since the war is over now? I think that the companies are banking on the fact that BR pictures look so good that most people wont care too much about DVD and that they already own DVD players. But thanks for the heads up Mr. P. I was debating on whether or not I should buy an oppo DVD player or not since I have the free Sony BDP 300 BR that came with my TV. I think that I will go ahead and purchase the oppo thanks to your info. I would like to have SACD playback anyway and the oppo fits the bill. For $169 its worth it.
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I think the point Mr P. was trying to make was that it would be nice if one machine was capable of doing a good job with both formats rather than needing a separate machine for DVD. I own the Sony S-300 Bluray player and it is awful with regular DVD, about on par with my PS2.
Blackraven
As far as the format war being over, the real war is just beginning, in order for Blu to be a long term viable format it must replace DVD and i believe that is some years off.
bill
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Although not one of the new players, my PS3 does an excellent job with SD DVDs. I watched Eraser (1996) and was amazed how good it looked on my Sony KDL52XBR5 TV. I've noticed other SD DVDs were consistently the same PQ. The PS3 may be a bit pricey for $500, but it has many other features as well.
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blu-ray
It would be nice if one player did both sd & b-ray well, but all of us already have a sd dvd player so just leave it hooked up for sd stuff and use the b-ray player for b-ray stuff, that way both players will last longer and we can save some money for other things like speakers and amps or what ever.
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What you say ...
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Originally Posted by blackraven
.... I was debating on whether or not I should buy an oppo DVD player or not since I have the free Sony BDP 300 BR that came with my TV. I think that I will go ahead and purchase the oppo thanks to your info. I would like to have SACD playback anyway and the oppo fits the bill. For $169 its worth it.
... makes me feel even better about my recent Oppo DV980H purchase. It's working well, BTW. :22:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s dog
It would be nice if one player did both sd & b-ray well, but all of us already have a sd dvd player so just leave it hooked up for sd stuff and use the b-ray player for b-ray stuff, that way both players will last longer and we can save some money for other things like speakers and amps or what ever.
True. Right now, my HD-DVD player has become my std DVD player while the PS3 handles the BR movies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
True. Right now, my HD-DVD player has become my std DVD player while the PS3 handles the BR movies.
The PS3 is a different animal than any standlone player in terms of DVD playback. It uses a software solution rather than a chipset. Software algorythms can always be updated and tweaked. Chipsets are not that fortunate. My PS3 is on par with my A1 in terms of DVD playback. My A-35 is a smidgen better than the PS3. Its a bit sharper and more 3D like. On the other hand, more discs look good in my PS3 than my A-35. Disc with bad compression looked really bad on the A-35, but looked a little better on my PS3. Don't know why this is so, but it is.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
The PS3 is a different animal than any standlone player in terms of DVD playback. It uses a software solution rather than a chipset. Software algorythms can always be updated and tweaked. Chipsets are not that fortunate. My PS3 is on par with my A1 in terms of DVD playback. My A-35 is a smidgen better than the PS3. Its a bit sharper and more 3D like. On the other hand, more discs look good in my PS3 than my A-35. Disc with bad compression looked really bad on the A-35, but looked a little better on my PS3. Don't know why this is so, but it is.
I have heard that the PS3 does a great job with std DVD's. But that HD-DVD player has to pull it's own weight.
Long live my PS3!
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Originally Posted by GMichael
I have heard that the PS3 does a great job with std DVD's. But that HD-DVD player has to pull it's own weight.
Long live my PS3!
I have three of those HD DUD players around. And yeah you are right, they are going to have to earn their keep.
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When the product, BR, started out with 1st gen players providing good DVD playback I expected that to continue in future players. Maybe the war wasn't so bad after all.
Pix, I guess it's good to see you haven't changed. This is one time though it paid to be an early adopter.
Sir T, I didn't quite grasp the concept and really didn't go back over it since at the time it wasn't my focus, but, one thing I almost picked up from these reviews and I think it's the answer to your question, the Sigma design has a flagging problem with SD, so some discs may look almost alright where others show worse. Well, second thought, if your
A35 don't use the Sigma then it couldn't be the answer.
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Originally Posted by pixelthis
How old are you, twelve?
There is no reason for ANY blu player to do a good job on SD dvd.
If it did there wouldnt be as much incentive to replace your DVD'S with
Blu versions, now would there?:1:
Absolutely...minus the insult.
Considering that Toshiba owns the licensing for DVD and Sony owns the same for BR, I would imagine there are some in the Sony Corp. camp that view SD playback, at best, as a necessary evil. They're certainly not going to go out of their way to make it any better.
Contractually, they're probably not going to alloe anyone else to either.
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Originally Posted by bobsticks
Absolutely...minus the insult.
Considering that Toshiba owns the licensing for DVD and Sony owns the same for BR, I would imagine there are some in the Sony Corp. camp that view SD playback, at best, as a necessary evil. They're certainly not going to go out of their way to make it any better.
Contractually, they're probably not going to alloe anyone else to either.
What "insult"? I was mearly asking a question.
The thing is, DVD is the past, and I THINK IT WILL BE ECLIPSED faster than most beleive.
BECAUSE THE PRICE of BLU will drop and the quality will continue to increase.
DVD is obsolete, only has so much storage, and you can't get blood outta a turnip.
DVD will be around for several years but BLU WILL BE THE MAJOR IN A MERE TWO OR THREE YEARS, maybe sooner.
And no reason for the price to stay high, as a Blu player is only a DVD player with
a blue laser and slightly more complicated software
:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
What "insult"? I was mearly asking a question.
The thing is, DVD is the past, and I THINK IT WILL BE ECLIPSED faster than most beleive.
BECAUSE THE PRICE of BLU will drop and the quality will continue to increase.
DVD is obsolete, only has so much storage, and you can't get blood outta a turnip.
DVD will be around for several years but BLU WILL BE THE MAJOR IN A MERE TWO OR THREE YEARS, maybe sooner.
And no reason for the price to stay high, as a Blu player is only a DVD player with
a blue laser and slightly more complicated software
:1:
It is apparent that you do not know how complex a bluray player actually is. A DVD player with a bluray laser? Not quite...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
It is apparent that you do not know how complex a bluray player actually is. A DVD player with a bluray laser? Not quite...
Didn't you know that if you change the emblem on the front of a camaro you can turn it into a corvette?
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Originally Posted by GMichael
Didn't you know that if you change the emblem on the front of a camaro you can turn it into a corvette?
Huh. You really shoot for the stars. I put a Rolls Royce emblem on the front of my Chevette. Now I'm really stylin'
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Originally Posted by Groundbeef
Huh. You really shoot for the stars. I put a Rolls Royce emblem on the front of my Chevette. Now I'm really stylin'
Flashback to an early sceen from UP IN SMOKE. A RR (emblem/front grill) tied to the front of a VW bug. Way cool.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Flashback to an early sceen from UP IN SMOKE. A RR (emblem/front grill) tied to the front of a VW bug. Way cool.:1:
Is this similar to you now ending your posts with the same skin flute player that Pix uses that you are actually trying to be more "Pix" like?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundbeef
Is this similar to you now ending your posts with the same skin flute player that Pix uses that you are actually trying to be more "Pix" like?
You know he's my hero right? Just gander at the caption under my avatar. I'll do my best to ramble on incoherently until my point is completely lost in the smoke. Oh wait. That kinda makes sense. I'll have to try harder next time Burgerbreath. :1:
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The fact that Toshiba still owns rights to DVD is a factor I had not put into the equation, good point. But if that's the reason then it's the consumer that suffers not Toshiba. I still thought more of you would be irratated about this. I'm out of sync with the world. I think it's also, this "oh well" attitude of the consumer that keeps allowing the industry to screw us around.
Please!....... Peabody...... stop...... don't get on another HDMI rant..
Test pattern comes on, "PLEASE STAND BY"
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I own the Sony BDP-S300. It is actually reviewed fairly well in terms of SD DVD playback from the reviews I have read. I also am happy with the quality when watching my SD DVD's, but maybe I am not that picky. I have never sat there and thought, "this looks like crap".
It is, first and foremost, a BD player. Many will be like me and will probably not want to watch many SD DVD's once they switch over to Blu-ray. There are also plenty of BD movies out there to keep everyone busy and many more on the way every month.
When DVD's replaced VHS, I don't remember any DVD players that also played VHS for free. This was only available in combo players at a significant cost increase. The fact that BD players also play SD DVD's and do upconversion is a nice bonus, but if you are really picky you might have to get a quality stand alone DVD player (of course most already own this).
DVD's are outdated technology. Let's move on already !!
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I don't believe VHS to DVD is apples to apples with SD to HD. SD/HD are both disc formats and should be easily compatible. I didn't really get into collecting movies until DVD but now that I have, I have no intention on replacing the entire catalog with Blu-ray.
It would also be a bit easier to "move on" if the industry would set some standards as to what will and will not be on a BR disc, what component will decode the audio, HDMI etc. If DVD was this sloppy hitting the market we'd still be watching VHS.
I can't believe so many people come to the defense of these corporate sleezebags.
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Originally Posted by codecougar
I own the Sony BDP-S300. It is actually reviewed fairly well in terms of SD DVD playback from the reviews I have read. I also am happy with the quality when watching my SD DVD's, but maybe I am not that picky. I have never sat there and thought, "this looks like crap".
It is, first and foremost, a BD player. Many will be like me and will probably not want to watch many SD DVD's once they switch over to Blu-ray. There are also plenty of BD movies out there to keep everyone busy and many more on the way every month.
When DVD's replaced VHS, I don't remember any DVD players that also played VHS for free. This was only available in combo players at a significant cost increase. The fact that BD players also play SD DVD's and do upconversion is a nice bonus, but if you are really picky you might have to get a quality stand alone DVD player (of course most already own this).
DVD's are outdated technology. Let's move on already !!
And we're going to "move on" faster than most will think.
THE HUMAN BRAIN HAS AN EXELENT capacity to "fill in the gaps" of quality
when its missing, you'd be surprized at what you get used to.
But after watching mostly HDTV after awhile you start to notice how drab DVD looks in comparison. Its still better than standard def tv but practicaly tied with SD digital.
And BLU is better than broadcast.
I hate watching beloved movies in anything less than the best. Thats why I PAID 700$ FOR A 20IN XBR WHEN MOST WERE GETTING A 27IN FOR THE SAME PRICE.
Sooner or later I WILL have to buy a blu ray, maybe when chasing amy or body heat comes out on BLU:1:
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