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  1. #1
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Television Outlaw: Are you one?

    Hey all. I was listening to CBC this morning and this topic came up. Basically, Ontario is looking at following California's recent move regarding TV's. They are looking at the energy consumption of Plasma and LCD, this would see them banning certain TV's that don't make the grade. The link will explain it properly.

    I still have a tube Sony set so this doesn't concern me. I think it's a strange place to start after addressing the whole car topic. I suppose fridges have recieved some attention already.

    Anyhow, I thought this would be of interest for you hardcore H/T types.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...n.html?ref=rss

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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    THEY DON'T NEED TO BOTHER.
    Plasma is selling at firesale prices( a Sanyo 50" for 600 bucks) and is rapidly
    exiting the scene, the intro of LED LCD will only hasten that walk stage left.
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  3. #3
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    So LCD has no issues with power consumption?

  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Hey all. I was listening to CBC this morning and this topic came up. Basically, Ontario is looking at following California's recent move regarding TV's. They are looking at the energy consumption of Plasma and LCD, this would see them banning certain TV's that don't make the grade. The link will explain it properly.

    I still have a tube Sony set so this doesn't concern me. I think it's a strange place to start after addressing the whole car topic. I suppose fridges have recieved some attention already.

    Anyhow, I thought this would be of interest for you hardcore H/T types.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...n.html?ref=rss
    What I can say about this is that I was glad to learn the plasmas and LCDs use more power than good ol' CRTs (like I'm stuck with for the moment). I had no idea. I think maybe I assumed the last used more power than the LCDs at least -- I guess actually thinking decades ago when CRTs had a dozen tubes or more, of which the actual CRT was only one.

    Anyway, although spreading the knowledge is a good thing, I think legislating which TVs people can have is idiodic. If you want to reduce power usage, increase the per watt usage price, don't legislate appliance by appliance.

  5. #5
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    I think a little info was left out in that artical, Calif is looking more at charging a sur-tax/luxury tax on larger Sets. The move is not soley about energy, but trying to increse the tax base on more items that the general public is buying. But it is all still under review,
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  6. #6
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Right now I'm out of compliance (outlaw), but I'll no doubt upgrade in the next month or two...especially now that I know that Christmas bonuses are forthecoming this year ... to meet CA power consumption requirements.
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    TV makers have already been making huge reductions in energy consumption. The law just inserts a mandate and a firm timetable into the process. The current generation of plasma TVs already use less than half the energy of their counterparts from just two years ago and most of them already meet the 2011 standard. Similar reductions have been made on the LCD side. If California acts alone, this would not do much because TVs could still be purchased from out-of-state vendors (including websites). Only if other states and places like Ontario adopt similar standards would this have a major market impact on how TVs are designed (similar to how Canada and states where about half the cars in the U.S. are sold have adopted California's vehicle emission standards).

    FWIW, only a handful of current TVs on the market would meet the more stringent 2013 standards, and that 58" screen size exemption creates a gaping hole whereby manufacturers can move more of their product line into screen sizes larger than 58".
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  8. #8
    Rob_a rob_a's Avatar
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    Re:

    Living in California my whole life, I have come to the conclusion that the politician in Sacramento are a bunch of fricken moron! I am getting pretty irritated with this Nanny State that has been beaten over my head! Do this, donít do that, eat this, say this, believe this way, blah blah blah. This ban on big screens is complete Bull S&!t. There is nothing that this state wonít Tax or Regulate. Thatís why the business is leaving and our economy is so much worse than the rest of the country. Other States and Country need to look at California and do the opposite.
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  9. #9
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_a
    Living in California my whole life, I have come to the conclusion that the politician in Sacramento are a bunch of fricken moron! I am getting pretty irritated with this Nanny State that has been beaten over my head! Do this, donít do that, eat this, say this, believe this way, blah blah blah. This ban on big screens is complete Bull S&!t. There is nothing that this state wonít Tax or Regulate. Thatís why the business is leaving and our economy is so much worse than the rest of the country. Other States and Country need to look at California and do the opposite.
    Read the article before you go off on your rant, it's not a ban.
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  10. #10
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    TV makers have already been making huge reductions in energy consumption. The law just inserts a mandate and a firm timetable into the process. The current generation of plasma TVs already use less than half the energy of their counterparts from just two years ago and most of them already meet the 2011 standard. Similar reductions have been made on the LCD side. If California acts alone, this would not do much because TVs could still be purchased from out-of-state vendors (including websites). Only if other states and places like Ontario adopt similar standards would this have a major market impact on how TVs are designed (similar to how Canada and states where about half the cars in the U.S. are sold have adopted California's vehicle emission standards).

    FWIW, only a handful of current TVs on the market would meet the more stringent 2013 standards, and that 58" screen size exemption creates a gaping hole whereby manufacturers can move more of their product line into screen sizes larger than 58".
    So... a "cap and trade" system for household applicances?

    I see your point, Wooch, and it's totally valid. But automobile regulation covers 100% of our driving. Wen it comes to household appliances, why pick on TVs in particular, only 10% (arguably the high estimate)? Is there similar proposed or extent legislation for, say, freezers, refrigerators, air conditioners, kitchen ranges, or -- the biggy in much of North America -- heating systems?

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    I know the law sets a minimum SEER for air cooling systems. Not sure on heating but I'd think so. I agree, it is a bit odd to single out TV's. I hope they grandfather any law or perhaps a hefty tax credit to upgrade to a more efficient model.

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    My Sony 40" LCD set is rated a max of 230 Watts, but that's with the backlight cranked up all the way to "5". Turned down to a normal viewing level 2 or 3 it draws less than 100 Watts measured with my Kill-A-Watt meter. The set runs a hell of a lot cooler too. Factory preset levels, and adjustment, have a lot to do with the power consumption.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_in_Tx
    My Sony 40" LCD set is rated a max of 230 Watts, but that's with the backlight cranked up all the way to "5". Turned down to a normal viewing level 2 or 3 it draws less than 100 Watts measured with my Kill-A-Watt meter. The set runs a hell of a lot cooler too. Factory preset levels, and adjustment, have a lot to do with the power consumption.
    AND THATS NOTHING in the great scheme of things.
    What these green ninnies don't get is that anyviewing device is going to
    come out ahead of going to the movies, etc.
    AND yes CRT was energy efficient, something like 130 to 150 watts,
    lightbulb territory, basically.
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  14. #14
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    anyviewing device is going to
    come out ahead of going to the movies, etc.
    :
    Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I would think that the movies would serve the same function as a bus/public transit in the great car pollution debate. How does thousands of TVs sucking juice from the system not outweigh one theater? Especially since most people leave their TVs on at all hours of the day, regardless of whether they are watching or not. My wife will "listen" to Oprah while in the kitchen readying dinner.

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    The whole idea is stupid. I can't imagine if every one shut off their voltage hog Plasma that it would make a drop in the bucket difference. Even if it did why single out the one appliance? They need to investigate what's causing the governmental, mental instability.

  16. #16
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    They are looking at the energy consumption of Plasma and LCD, this would see them banning certain TV's that don't make the grade. The link will explain it properly.
    What's next? Class A power amps?

    rw

  17. #17
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    What's next? Class A power amps?

    rw
    HA!!

    You've touched the point with a knife. Where does this kind of regulation stop?
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  18. #18
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    What's next? Class A power amps?

    rw
    I will be starting SOOCAR. It's purpose cannot be fully revealed. We will congregate in secret locations for yet to be disclosed purposes. Bring your amp and an extension cord.

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    R-evolutionaries

  19. #19
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I would think that the movies would serve the same function as a bus/public transit in the great car pollution debate. How does thousands of TVs sucking juice from the system not outweigh one theater? Especially since most people leave their TVs on at all hours of the day, regardless of whether they are watching or not. My wife will "listen" to Oprah while in the kitchen readying dinner.
    One theater usually has as many as twelve screens(mine has 16), and yeah, even with that many projectors its cheaper than a bunch of home TV sets.
    But what about the three hundred cars in the parking lot that came from all over to see the movies? AND THEN HAD TO GO HOME, Or by the burger shack.
    Bus? Only losers ride the bus in suburbia.
    Sixteen theaters, average of five showings a day, cars in the parking lot for each
    showing, gotta pop a lot of popcorn in the microwave to make up for that.
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  20. #20
    Rob_a rob_a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Read the article before you go off on your rant, it's not a ban.
    I know, I was over doing the doom and gloom but I still don't care for the taxes to much
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  21. #21
    Rob_a rob_a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    My wife will "listen" to Oprah while in the kitchen readying dinner.
    Thereís your problem, too much Oprah. Government is going to have to cut re-runs of Oprah down to only 6 showing a week to save energy. No, but really,,, I have an A/V receiver that sucks up a lot more juice than my Big screen, why not go after them??? This just seems odd. With the way the economy is, I would think keeping taxes and regulation down would help keep prices down, which will help people who are tight with money.
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    Hey! Pix, watch that only losers ride the bus thing. Keep it up and I'll send you a fruit cake.

    Rob, hush your mouth..... don't give them any ideas.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Hey! Pix, watch that only losers ride the bus thing. Keep it up and I'll send you a fruit cake.

    Rob, hush your mouth..... don't give them any ideas.

    ITS THE TRUTH, I guess "you cant handle the truth".
    You see a munny bus about once a week, and the only people on them are maids
    and crack heads and "challenged " people going somewhere before bedcheck.
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  24. #24
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    The whole idea is stupid. I can't imagine if every one shut off their voltage hog Plasma that it would make a drop in the bucket difference. Even if it did why single out the one appliance? They need to investigate what's causing the governmental, mental instability.
    Actually, the overall power draw from TVs now accounts for approximately 10% of household power usage in California. I think that this had already become an issue when power rates spiked starting about three years ago, and the manufacturers know that. That's why you've seen such huge reductions in power consumption with the newer TV models over the past couple of years.

    The power efficiency of the TVs themselves is not the big issue, it's the screen sizes. The move from a 32" TV (4:3 CRT) to a 50" HDTV (16:9) means the screen area has increased by almost 120%. And if you keep all other factors equal, it simply takes more power to illuminate that much more screen area.

    With the improvements that manufacturers have already made, I don't think this regulation is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    What's next? Class A power amps?
    The EU already looked into this a few years ago. They took no action at that time, but it's definitely a product category that has been under consideration. The saving grace for the power amp industry is that it's a small niche category. HDTVs are a much bigger category than home audio components.
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  25. #25
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    I think they would have done a lot better looking in to server farms rather than television sets. But of course both the state and federal govenment are more for big business than they are for the average American.

    I just read that Senator Lugar is going to ask Obama to forget health care reform so we can fight the war in Afghanistan. What kind of backwards crap are our politicians thinking, or what are they smoking? Bad crack?
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