• 07-19-2004, 11:12 AM
    Widowmaker
    Sorry to say this, but CRT rear projection stinks
    Last weekend I helped a friend set up his brand spankin' new TV. I even went with him to get it (despite my cajoling, whining, and hand-wringing, he insisted on buying it from Best Buy, or as I like to call them, the Great Satan of electronics retailing). After putting up with the extended warranty nonsense (during which not only was the sales associate was involved, one assistant store manager as well as the general manager of the store hassled us at least 15 times, if we would buy the extended warranty), we got out of there after about an hour. I'm getting off track, but he ended up buying the Sony 51" set.

    After getting it to his place, I then helped him set it up using a progressive scan DVD player and the S&V disk. Maybe I've been spoiled by my front projector or other friends' DLP sets, but despite the tweaking, it just was not satisfactory. The corner-to-corner focus was not good; my friend has three couches, two of which are set off-center to the TV and it was near impossible to get a clear picture from that viewing position. Also, while there wasn't a lot of light in the room, the image looked washed out whenever we opened the blinds. He even noticed all this but I told him that it's not just this TV, this is emblematic of CRT rear-projection. Unfortunately, he could not afford to spend twice as much on a DLP or LCD rear-projection set.

    Now, he's thinking about returning the TV. Good luck with that, I told him, considering Best Buy's 15% restocking fee and their "liberal" and "customer-centric" return policies, LOL. I sincerely hope that with the advent of DLP and LCD and lowering prices, CRT rear projection goes the way of the 8-track tape player.
  • 07-19-2004, 11:28 AM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Widowmaker
    Last weekend I helped a friend set up his brand spankin' new TV. I even went with him to get it (despite my cajoling, whining, and hand-wringing, he insisted on buying it from Best Buy, or as I like to call them, the Great Satan of electronics retailing). After putting up with the extended warranty nonsense (during which not only was the sales associate was involved, one assistant store manager as well as the general manager of the store hassled us at least 15 times, if we would buy the extended warranty), we got out of there after about an hour. I'm getting off track, but he ended up buying the Sony 51" set.

    After getting it to his place, I then helped him set it up using a progressive scan DVD player and the S&V disk. Maybe I've been spoiled by my front projector or other friends' DLP sets, but despite the tweaking, it just was not satisfactory. The corner-to-corner focus was not good; my friend has three couches, two of which are set off-center to the TV and it was near impossible to get a clear picture from that viewing position. Also, while there wasn't a lot of light in the room, the image looked washed out whenever we opened the blinds. He even noticed all this but I told him that it's not just this TV, this is emblematic of CRT rear-projection. Unfortunately, he could not afford to spend twice as much on a DLP or LCD rear-projection set.

    Now, he's thinking about returning the TV. Good luck with that, I told him, considering Best Buy's 15% restocking fee and their "liberal" and "customer-centric" return policies, LOL. I sincerely hope that with the advent of DLP and LCD and lowering prices, CRT rear projection goes the way of the 8-track tape player.

    Since it has focusing problems, maybe they need to send out a tech to calibrate it? Let them pay the bills :)
    How is it with non progressive signals?
  • 07-19-2004, 11:30 AM
    eqm
    my mitsubishi diamond 55" is a little different than what you've seen...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Widowmaker
    Last weekend I helped a friend set up his brand spankin' new TV. I even went with him to get it (despite my cajoling, whining, and hand-wringing, he insisted on buying it from Best Buy, or as I like to call them, the Great Satan of electronics retailing). After putting up with the extended warranty nonsense (during which not only was the sales associate was involved, one assistant store manager as well as the general manager of the store hassled us at least 15 times, if we would buy the extended warranty), we got out of there after about an hour. I'm getting off track, but he ended up buying the Sony 51" set.

    After getting it to his place, I then helped him set it up using a progressive scan DVD player and the S&V disk. Maybe I've been spoiled by my front projector or other friends' DLP sets, but despite the tweaking, it just was not satisfactory. The corner-to-corner focus was not good; my friend has three couches, two of which are set off-center to the TV and it was near impossible to get a clear picture from that viewing position. Also, while there wasn't a lot of light in the room, the image looked washed out whenever we opened the blinds. He even noticed all this but I told him that it's not just this TV, this is emblematic of CRT rear-projection. Unfortunately, he could not afford to spend twice as much on a DLP or LCD rear-projection set.

    Now, he's thinking about returning the TV. Good luck with that, I told him, considering Best Buy's 15% restocking fee and their "liberal" and "customer-centric" return policies, LOL. I sincerely hope that with the advent of DLP and LCD and lowering prices, CRT rear projection goes the way of the 8-track tape player.

    I'm not surprised with the results you got with the sony. they seem to really have not paid much attention to their RPTVs since they started working on the LCDs. Point blank, however, is that the CRT will still produce blacks that a dlp can only hope to attain in the next 5-10 years. i also don't get rainbowing like you'll get from the single-chip dlp, or color banding (see the scene in "finding nemo" with the glow in the dark fish), have a lot of "depth" to my picture that dlp simply can't do, and i'm able to see my tv from a fairly wide angle with the ultra-fine pitch lenticular screen on my mits. as far as the corner-to-corner focusing issue...did your buddy run a convergence (either the manual or automatic)?

    oh yeah...and i almost forgot...i don't have fan noise in the background during quiet scenes :D :D :D :p :D :D :D

    your buddy should be able to find one of the more entry-level mits's for about the same money he spent on the sony and that in itself should take care of some of the problems you and he encountered. hope this helps!
  • 07-19-2004, 12:41 PM
    Widowmaker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Since it has focusing problems, maybe they need to send out a tech to calibrate it? Let them pay the bills :)
    How is it with non progressive signals?

    Maybe I got the term wrong. While focus itself was fine, the picture was not uniformly bright corner to corner. Again, when sitting off-center to the TV, you could not see what was happening in the corners, only the center, a notorious drawback of CRT rear projection.

    I guess the non-progressive signals were all right, it was just a bit hazy and soft; like most displays, its deinterlacer wasn't that great.
  • 07-19-2004, 12:44 PM
    Widowmaker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eqm
    I'm not surprised with the results you got with the sony. they seem to really have not paid much attention to their RPTVs since they started working on the LCDs. Point blank, however, is that the CRT will still produce blacks that a dlp can only hope to attain in the next 5-10 years. i also don't get rainbowing like you'll get from the single-chip dlp, or color banding (see the scene in "finding nemo" with the glow in the dark fish), have a lot of "depth" to my picture that dlp simply can't do, and i'm able to see my tv from a fairly wide angle with the ultra-fine pitch lenticular screen on my mits. as far as the corner-to-corner focusing issue...did your buddy run a convergence (either the manual or automatic)?

    oh yeah...and i almost forgot...i don't have fan noise in the background during quiet scenes :D :D :D :p :D :D :D

    your buddy should be able to find one of the more entry-level mits's for about the same money he spent on the sony and that in itself should take care of some of the problems you and he encountered. hope this helps!

    It's certainly true that DLP and LCD cannot produce blacks as inky as CRT but just like anything in life, you have to make sacrifices. Personally, I would put up with grayer blacks for better uniform brightness and focus, no burn-in, and avoiding convergence problems. Also, on a friend's Samsung DLP, I cannot hear the fan or the color wheel spinning unless I'm standing behind the set.

    I guess another thing going for rear projection CRT is that it is relatively inexpensive when compared to DLP and LCD.
  • 07-19-2004, 04:02 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Widowmaker
    Maybe I got the term wrong. While focus itself was fine, the picture was not uniformly bright corner to corner. Again, when sitting off-center to the TV, you could not see what was happening in the corners, only the center, a notorious drawback of CRT rear projection.

    I guess the non-progressive signals were all right, it was just a bit hazy and soft; like most displays, its deinterlacer wasn't that great.


    Does the store have this TV on display to compare? Except that the display is not calibrated but over driven to look good?
  • 07-20-2004, 05:55 AM
    Widowmaker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Does the store have this TV on display to compare? Except that the display is not calibrated but over driven to look good?

    Actually, Best Buy did have the TV on display, in a very dark room with the brightness and contrast turned up. I forgot to mention that I tried to tweak the TV settings a bit but the assistant store manager stopped me from doing it. You'd think that was a sign to not buy the TV there but my friend did anyway.
  • 07-20-2004, 01:34 PM
    eqm
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Widowmaker
    Actually, Best Buy did have the TV on display, in a very dark room with the brightness and contrast turned up. I forgot to mention that I tried to tweak the TV settings a bit but the assistant store manager stopped me from doing it. You'd think that was a sign to not buy the TV there but my friend did anyway.

    i'm surprised they're doing the 15% restock fee...? i didn't think they ever did anything like that. you may need to talk to the right person at the store or at the corporate level if you can't get any resolution. :mad:
  • 07-20-2004, 02:50 PM
    skeptic
    I am not in the least surprised. These types of TV sets have been on the market for well over 25 years now and they have never looked good to me. I think that the are inherently flawed. You need a very dark room and you must sit directly or almost directly on axis to get an acceptable image. Like all three gun sets, they constantly need converging to maintain the best performace they are capable of. Front projection has gotten better but the only high quality alternative I've seen for home use to the CRT is the LCD panel. But they are far too expensive given their size. Generally as time goes on, the technology improves and the price goes down. RP sets have probably reached their limit. Personally, if I found it necessary to buy a new TV today, I'd probably buy a high quality standard 32 or 36 inch set with the idea of getting an LCD set sometime in the future when the quality to price ratio improves considerably. As for plasma, their relatively short life expectancy does not justify their cost IMO and I'm not satisfied that the picture quality is all that great anyway.
  • 07-21-2004, 06:23 AM
    ryjam282
    I believe it could just be the SONY tv. I have a Hitachi 57 inch Widescreen and i can tell you, there is not one problem to speak of. I get well over a 45 degree viewing angle and the colors are just great. No problems with the convergence and there is no "dead spots" in the corners either. The Finding Nemo scene in the dark is unbelivable and try watching the opening sequence to Matrix Revolutions as well. I am happy with my purchase but may be going the way of the LCOS in the future as all I have heard about them in great things....I will definitely stay tuned.
  • 07-22-2004, 07:48 PM
    nonobrown
    Don't buy anything Sony! There TV's STINK!
    And they don't stand behind their products.
  • 07-23-2004, 05:38 AM
    hifimaster
    I agree with ryjam282. I have had the same great performance with my 51" Hitachi. But I've had the set calibrated by an ISF tech.
    I also think the problem you had was because it was a Sony. They have had quite a few issues with quality control lateley. All the forums are filled with unhappy Sony consumers.

    James
  • 07-23-2004, 04:35 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Widowmaker
    Actually, Best Buy did have the TV on display, in a very dark room with the brightness and contrast turned up. I forgot to mention that I tried to tweak the TV settings a bit but the assistant store manager stopped me from doing it. You'd think that was a sign to not buy the TV there but my friend did anyway.


    Why don't you take a tuneup test DVD and put in the test patters to see where it is set:)

    If the manager refuses, you may have great reasons to return:)
  • 08-03-2004, 11:43 PM
    kdogg
    Your friends main problem; he bought the wrong tv.

    Lower priced RPTV's only look good in a very dark room because they are generally using 6" or 7" guns of poor quality. This results in a very poor transmission of light and limits the overall brightness of the display. That explains the wash out problem with light from windows.

    Next, the out of focus issue is a result of poor glass lenses on the guns. High quality RPTVs like a Mitsubishi Diamond with 9" guns (WS65813), use distortion free lenses and look much better. Just like a Nikon or Leica lens is significantly better than a Pentax or Sony lens on cameras, the same holds true on RPTVs.

    Overall, nothing can beat a CRT RPTV or tube. They create the best blacks and don't have a fixed resolution, therefore shoot exactly what signal you send them (1080i,720p,480p, etc).

    If CRT was a bad technology, then why are the best HT projectors still using CRT technology? DLP was invented to be a low cost solution to High Def front projection, and it has made HT more popular from a price stand point. CRT front projectors start at 20k and go up from there. I have seen lots of projectors and the most impressive was a DTV 1200 by Runco; Next was a 3 HD2+ chip DLP prototype by DWIN.
  • 08-05-2004, 04:02 AM
    grampi
    I can vouch for the Sony thing. Every piece of Sony equipment I've had in the last several years has been garbage. Now I avoid their stuff like the plague.