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  1. #51
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Huh? I answered this question a few minutes ago. Where did my post go?
    Anyway Rich, it's Brick and Mortar.
    Now it's back. WTF? Is this the Twilight Zone now?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  2. #52
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    Everything okay GM?

  3. #53
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Please feel free to let me know if I'm coming across as attacking your POV frenchmon...

    I'd say the receiver's feature set has as much to do with the product's price as the quality of it's components. The problem I have when I see "hand selected" is... are manufacturers trying to make us draw a mental image where there are people with white coats and hats standing next to a conveyor belt with resistors and capacitors flowing by, and they only pick out the brightest and shiniest of the bunch, then hand solder them to the glitziest looking PC boards? (How my doing so far RL?) We're all aware that passive components are mass produced. Some have tighter tolerances than others, and they're usually marked as such and priced accordingly. One way to measure a capacitor's value is with test equipment such as an HP 4284A Precision LCR meter. We use one here at work. It measures with very fine granularity and is calibrated yearly.

    I was looking at an Intregra DTR 7.8 receiver before I decided on the Yamaha, but I was never able to audition one anywhere around my area. In the only specialty store that I was able to look at one, they didn't have a room set up with any Integra which was very dissapointing. They had, IIRC four different models on a rack, and ya know what, when I spun the volume knob on each one just for tactile input, with every single one the knob wobbled like it was out-of-round. Don't know what that was all about but it didn't seem to reinforce the "hand selected" claim.


    Here ya go...
    http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/797...0ef1c104z.html


    Speakers are much less complicated than today's receivers, so I don't see a legitimate comparison there. I agree that the companies products you named above aren't cheap, and they do make quality equipment (as far as I've been told or have read), but again, I have a problem with the marketing terms I see being thrown around. Maybe the "inspector" has a meter in his "hand" when he's "selecting" the parts. I hope so.

    Naw...its nice to have a civil conversation with those who have a different perspective. You have a very good perspective and it helps me to see where I could be wrong. Iron sharpens Iron.

    I too agree that the feature set has a lots to do with it in some cases. Onkyo gives a lots of features but the price is low compared to other brands who offer the same features. And you know Onkyo is not eating the cost. They are passing the savings on to the consumer. I think manufactures are letting us know that quality parts that have been inspected goes into their product rather than just any old part. Now how they do it is beyond me. I think before they buy, they inspect the components some way.

    I know what you mean by the knob on the Integra. We all know what we like in a product. I hate the way some of the knobs feel on some of these products. I love the way a Marantz knob feels...nice and stiff. I do like Marants because nothing looks cheap and I know the quality is there. thats not to say they don't have lemons...all brands have their lemons. I even hate the way the knob felt on the Elites. But hey you can bet that the Integra is better quality than the Onkyo. For what its worth, I have never seen any problems or even heard of any problems from the Yammie at all. I do know that I have seen some that looked cheap and I have seen some that looked like quality. I do think the sound of them is a little bright for my taste. But its a good product in my opinion.

    frenchmon

  4. #54
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    So how did they know which one had the better parts? Either they both had the same old cheap components or they both had the quality parts. And how would they know what to look for? What was the plumb line? So heres the bigger question...why do the market the same model in two different ways? I think I will be taking a trip to Best Buy today to take a look at both Models. The RX model will be in Magnolia, and the HTR will be out front.

    frenchmon
    They stated that they tested most of the components and came up with similar results.
    As far as why they would market in two ways? Some people are willing to pay more to have something different (better?) than the masses. Why not take advantage of that? One line sells at high qty's with lower margins while the other sells lower qty's at higher margins. But now they are reaching both demographics and maximizing their market share.

    I drive an Acura CL. It's the same d'm thing as a Honda Accord. The tires are a little bigger and there are a couple of extra sway bars, but other than that it's the same car for more money. (I just got a great deal on it)
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  5. #55
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Everything okay GM?
    I think the LOST thread is somehow intersecting with this one.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  6. #56
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Back to the Onkyo.

    I have read that the popping happens the most when bitstreaming DTS MA.
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  7. #57
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    I read on AVS that the Yamaha 1800/3800's were also having issues with a HD audio format. Forget which one though. I blame the whole problem on the HDMI spec consortium. It's all about greed afterall.

  8. #58
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Yet another reason why you don't need HD decoding in your AVR

  9. #59
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    They stated that they tested most of the components and came up with similar results.
    As far as why they would market in two ways? Some people are willing to pay more to have something different (better?) than the masses. Why not take advantage of that? One line sells at high qty's with lower margins while the other sells lower qty's at higher margins. But now they are reaching both demographics and maximizing their market share.

    I drive an Acura CL. It's the same d'm thing as a Honda Accord. The tires are a little bigger and there are a couple of extra sway bars, but other than that it's the same car for more money. (I just got a great deal on it)
    We bought a Toyota. Its the same as the Lexus, but the Lexus does have stnadard upgrades that are not avalible on the Toyota.And some of the things on the dash board of the Lexus where of better quality. There is a difference. But I see your point.

    frenchmon

  10. #60
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    One thing that hasnt been mentioned here is simplicity and clean design.
    The Integra just looked better, and gold plate on the plugs alone were worth the extra.
    I dont like a lot of gimmicks, knobs, crap festooned all over a piece of gear, it just
    goes to show a lack of concern that could apply to the more important aspects like the circuittry, build q, parts, etc.
    \This is one thing I like about high end audio gear, an integrated amp with a volume control,
    and a knob to select the input source, a power button and maybe a headphone jack,
    what else do you need?
    True a HT RECEIVER is complicated but (B&K ?) a few back created a receiver
    that was very clean using advanced control logic, like push a select button for a function and two more for up/down.
    This was an HT receiver and had like ten buttons and knobs, very clean
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
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  11. #61
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    One thing that hasnt been mentioned here is simplicity and clean design.
    The Integra just looked better, and gold plate on the plugs alone were worth the extra.
    I dont like a lot of gimmicks, knobs, crap festooned all over a piece of gear, it just
    goes to show a lack of concern that could apply to the more important aspects like the circuittry, build q, parts, etc.
    \This is one thing I like about high end audio gear, an integrated amp with a volume control,
    and a knob to select the input source, a power button and maybe a headphone jack,
    what else do you need?
    True a HT RECEIVER is complicated but (B&K ?) a few back created a receiver
    that was very clean using advanced control logic, like push a select button for a function and two more for up/down.
    This was an HT receiver and had like ten buttons and knobs, very clean
    I have to agree with that. This was one of my attractions to the 2700.

  12. #62
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    I have to agree with that. This was one of my attractions to the 2700.
    Ditto,

    The RX-V line does have a much cleaner look than the HTR line. It's even cooler when you put it pure direct mode. All the lights go out except the one little blue one.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  13. #63
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Ditto,

    The RX-V line does have a much cleaner look than the HTR line. It's even cooler when you put it pure direct mode. All the lights go out except the one little blue one.
    How so? The front faceplate? That was kind of cool, hid all the stuff. Only thing I miss from the RX-V1400. The bigger buttons are nice too though when you have power amps and actually have to get up off your but and turn everything on with your hand.
    The smaller RX-Vmodels have all the same buttons smeared across the front too. And the HTR's still have the blue light for Pure Direct though.

    The new HTR-6190 looks just like the 1800 to me though, maybe the cosmetic differences are disappearing again?:
    http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf
    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...l?CNTID=558291

  14. #64
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    How so? The front faceplate? That was kind of cool, hid all the stuff. Only thing I miss from the RX-V1400. The bigger buttons are nice too though when you have power amps and actually have to get up off your but and turn everything on with your hand.
    The smaller RX-Vmodels have all the same buttons smeared across the front too. And the HTR's still have the blue light for Pure Direct though.

    The new HTR-6190 looks just like the 1800 to me though, maybe the cosmetic differences are disappearing again?:
    http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf
    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...l?CNTID=558291
    No 12v trigger. When I do get a amp, it needs to have auto turn on....my wife would kill me, especially since we have both been spoiled by the 880.

  15. #65
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    How so? The front faceplate? That was kind of cool, hid all the stuff. Only thing I miss from the RX-V1400. The bigger buttons are nice too though when you have power amps and actually have to get up off your but and turn everything on with your hand.
    The smaller RX-Vmodels have all the same buttons smeared across the front too. And the HTR's still have the blue light for Pure Direct though.

    The new HTR-6190 looks just like the 1800 to me though, maybe the cosmetic differences are disappearing again?:
    http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf
    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...l?CNTID=558291
    Yeah, it looks like the HTR's got a facelift. Cool.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  16. #66
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Ditto,

    The RX-V line does have a much cleaner look than the HTR line. It's even cooler when you put it pure direct mode. All the lights go out except the one little blue one.
    Thids is why I went with an rxv instead of an HTR.
    My Integra is teh same, a red and a blue light in pure audio mode
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
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  17. #67
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    Pure Audio mode is way overrated.

  18. #68
    way up in Canada eh f0rge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    Yet another reason why you don't need HD decoding in your AVR
    hell i bought it and i cant even use it...bollocks...
    Home Theatre:
    50" Panasonic TH-50PZ77
    Denon AVR-3808CI
    B&W 603 S3
    B&W LCR600 S3
    Paradigm Cinema ADP v.3
    SVS PB12-NSD
    Xbox 360 250GB
    Playstation 3 60GB
    Explorer 8300HD PVR 320GB
    Netgear ReadyNAS NV+ 8TB
    Harmony One

    2-Channel:
    Paradigm Studio 20 v.5
    NAD C320BEE
    NAD C521BEE

  19. #69
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Pure Audio mode is way overrated.
    Why doyou say that?

    frenchmon

  20. #70
    way up in Canada eh f0rge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    No 12v trigger. When I do get a amp, it needs to have auto turn on....my wife would kill me, especially since we have both been spoiled by the 880.
    forget that, just leave it on 24/7, that way the caps are always charged and ready to go.

    i didn't think people ever turned off amps, i definitely didn't.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    Why doyou say that?

    frenchmon
    Because I'm trying to be a smartass, just like GM.

  22. #72
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Because I'm trying to be a smartass, just like GM.
    Keep working at at.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Keep working at at.
    He!!, all I have to do is adopt pix's flair for the sarcastic, and you'll be running away with your tail between your legs.

  24. #74
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    He!!, all I have to do is adopt pix's flair for the sarcastic, and you'll be running away with your tail between your legs.
    Like I run from him at all?

    Yogi? Take care of Rich for me.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  25. #75
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    He!!, all I have to do is adopt pix's flair for the sarcastic, and you'll be running away with your tail between your legs.
    I doubt he can fit that tail in a barcolounger, much less between his legs.
    And I am a southerner, a smart mouth isn't a "flair", its a way of life
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
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