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  1. #1
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Sir TtT, I can now answer one of your questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system?
    Empirically, I can now answer "yes". Let me preface my comments by saying that I appreciate your industry video insight and have learned quite a bit regarding the nuances involved with the video standards and specifically, how the Blu-Ray committee operates. FWIW, my thoughts on video have never differed from that of yours. With audio, however, we seemingly live on different planets.

    I wish to continue to voice my enthusiasm over the video miracle that is Avatar. In the past three weeks, I've seen it twice in Liemax (Mall of Georgia outside Atlanta, Jordan Crossing outside Salt Lake City) and just this weekend, in "mere" 3D at the Paradiso Cinema in Memphis. The larger Liemax screen definitely adds to the realism in that I find myself completely immersed in the picture. With the standard screen, I was aware that I was watching a rectangular projection with black space around it. In all cases, however, the sound was particularly good for theatres. I tried to discover exactly what the two recent IMAX theatrical screens were using, but couldn't find anything. I did, however, find a reference to exactly what I heard in Memphis found here.

    The 10.2 system most certainly could be characterized as clean, exceptionally flat in response and thoroughly capable of providing the 93 db peaks (as measured at my seat) without a trace of any strain. There is no question that it is quite good at delivering subterranean response at very high levels. I cannot say that I have heard better quality at any theatre elsewhere. Even the *real* IMAX theatres I've attended in Atlanta, Huntsville, Cape Canaveral, Washington, Las Vegas, Dallas, Myrtle Beach, Nashville, Fort Worth, Chattanooga (and probably a couple other cities I can't remember at this time) didn't provide better sound quality than the new Klipsch system in Memphis.

    Having said that, the musical performance was lackluster. I have the Avatar soundtrack and know it well. While one cannot entirely compare the full movie soundtrack to the musical score, there are sections in the movie that consist of music only. The movie begins with "You don't dream in cryo" and ends with Leona Lewis' theme. There is simply no comparison to what I heard with the Klipsch system and what I hear at home. There is no danger that one would ever confuse the theater system with live. Despite the twelve channels, the musical presentation is flat and lifeless. There are the front channels and there are the rear and side channels. Powerful and clean, yes - but the image sticks to the screen and never fools you into believing that there is an orchestra or Leona singing in front of you. With my main music system, however, there is a natural ease and transparency that far transcends the theatre experience. You not only hear Leona singing, but you hear her breath and the full emotion of the piece comes through. The image floats in front of you in a way that QSC class H amps and massive horn speakers can never convey. Harry Pearson's system can make all the walls in the room completely disappear (not only the with MC system, but the separate and higher resolution two channel as well) - while the image of theatres sticks strictly within the room.

    Theatre systems have come quite a way and provide a wonderful audio experience when viewing movies. They cannot, however, fool you to thinking that the performers are in your very room performing in the way that the highest resolution audio systems are capable of doing. Truly I say this not to bash or slam you or the industry - my earnest wish is that as a recording professional that you take a fresh look at what is truly possible with audio reproduction. I am confident that in time, such will be the case.

    rw

  2. #2
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Isn't there a price difference here between your U-1s and a pair of the main channels from the Klipsch system? Also, I'm guessing your soundlabs could not reach the SPLs that the klipsch speakers could without compressing as much. These theater speakers are a tradeoff between absolute SQ, SPL capability and being reasonably priced. Whereas your U-1 are meant for 2c hannel listening, and are focused on delivering exactly what is on the recording, cost no object.
    Now i could be wrong about the price of a pair of them horns, they could be just as expensive as the U-1 if not more.
    I'm not trying to bash your system either, I would absolutely love to hear it one day. But you're comparing apples and oranges a little no?

  3. #3
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Also, I'm guessing your soundlabs could not reach the SPLs that the klipsch speakers could without compressing as much.
    Clearly, just as a pickup truck has a greater storage capacity than my S2000!

    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    But you're comparing apples and oranges a little no?
    Not according to Terrance! Regarding the ability to float a voice with high resolution:

    "Even my cheapest MC system can do what you describe with complete and total ease... Anything a good two channel system can do, and good MC can do equally or better."

    There you have it. Even my cheap MC system should trounce the stats with their ability to create realism. Guess what? They don't even come close. He continues to overstate the performance envelope of the sonic equivalent of a pickup truck vs. a Ferrari Italia. This coming from a professional recording engineer who knows the live unamplified musical event?

    rw

  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Clearly, just as a pickup truck has a greater storage capacity than my S2000!


    Not according to Terrance! Regarding the ability to float a voice with high resolution:

    "Even my cheapest MC system can do what you describe with complete and total ease... Anything a good two channel system can do, and good MC can do equally or better."

    There you have it. Even my cheap MC system should trounce the stats with their ability to create realism. Guess what? They don't even come close. He continues to overstate the performance envelope of the sonic equivalent of a pickup truck vs. a Ferrari Italia. This coming from a professional recording engineer who knows the live unamplified musical event?

    rw
    And you continue to understate what you have never heard. In order to comment on a particular system, you have to actually hear it. Audio requires the ears(as opposed to the mouth) and brain to make a qualitative comparison between systems. That is very difficult when you are sitting on your big butt in another state just blowing smoke from afar.

    Floating a voice realistically requires that the speakers have excellent phase characteristics, low in distortion, and a exceptionally flat frequency response in the presence region. Whether we are talking electrostatic panels or cones and domes. My cheapest system(ya noticed that I listed no price here) is a timed aligned two way phase correct speaker system that is just as capable of creating stable and realistic phantom images as a electrostatic panel is. Obviously they will sound different from a electrostatic panel, but different does not equate to better. Better is in the ears of the listener, not in the technology itself. While I will be the first to admit that electrostatic speakers have some very unique qualities, they are not the end all of all speaker designs.

    Since you and I listen to music two different ways, and the same music from two different periods of time, it is a no brainer that we do not share the same love of speakers. There are certain properties you like in a speakers, and there are certain properties I like. While I love the midrange of electrostatics, the fact that they compress at high volumes, and are dynamically limited in the bass region makes them unsuitable for the kinds listening I do. The size of the most electrostatics are a problem as well, as most of the listening I do is in multichannel.

    I have neither named the components in my cheaper system, nor have I named its price tag. You with zero information about the system (and the room it sits in)and yet you state that your e-stats as head and shoulder better than my system. This is why I cannot take your audio snobbery seriously. If it ain't two channel, or built around mega buck amps and electrostatic panel, it is not good enough. That is a whole pile of bull, and anyone with experience listening to a wide variety of speakers at different price points can attest to that. I have always been told that when listening to speakers, use your ears first, and your mouth last. You seem to have this completely backwards.
    Sir Terrence

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  5. #5
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    ...

    "Even my cheapest MC system can do what you describe with complete and total ease... Anything a good two channel system can do, and good MC can do equally or better."

    There you have it. Even my cheap MC system should trounce the stats with their ability to create realism. Guess what? They don't even come close. He continues to overstate the performance envelope of the sonic equivalent of a pickup truck vs. a Ferrari Italia. This coming from a professional recording engineer who knows the live unamplified musical event?

    rw
    Modest as my 2 ch system is, my MC is even more modest. However, based on that, I insist that an MC can do what a stereo cannot. And that is create the illusion that you are in -- inside -- a real space. Yes, the MC might be imperfect in this regard but much less so than the stereo.

    But does this mean my modest MC "trounce" my slightly less modest stereo? Not hardly: for music at least, the stereo wins hands down. Its resolution, transparency, and shear accuracy so beat the MC that there is not question which I want to listen to (as opposed to watch). But this is a matter of quality of components. I'm sure you'll agree that HP's MC set up goes a long way towards redressing quality balance vs. your "cheap", (like I believe that), MC system.

    On the other hand when it comes to movies -- or opera -- I'm not so sure I prefer my stereo. We viewed Don Giovanni on Sunday and it was great in 5 channel sound -- something about the applause coming from behind us, etc.

    Wonderful production BTW ...


  6. #6
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Isn't there a price difference here between your U-1s and a pair of the main channels from the Klipsch system? Also, I'm guessing your soundlabs could not reach the SPLs that the klipsch speakers could without compressing as much. These theater speakers are a tradeoff between absolute SQ, SPL capability and being reasonably priced. Whereas your U-1 are meant for 2c hannel listening, and are focused on delivering exactly what is on the recording, cost no object.
    Now i could be wrong about the price of a pair of them horns, they could be just as expensive as the U-1 if not more.
    I'm not trying to bash your system either, I would absolutely love to hear it one day. But you're comparing apples and oranges a little no?
    He is comparing apples and oranges. Theatrical speakers have a particular job that is completely different from a home audio speaker. To compare the two is stupid and illogical, and I have stated this before. It is asinine to walk into a theater full of horn loaded speakers, and compare that experience to sitting at home in front of two large panels. While the e-stats would trump these theatrical speakers in clarity and smoothness, the theatrical speakers would blow the e-stats out of the room in the areas of dynamics and bass extension.

    You don't go to a Chinese restaurant looking for a great burger, and thus you should not walk into a theater expecting to hear the level of clarity and smoothness you get from a home audio system.
    Sir Terrence

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  7. #7
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    And you continue to understate what you have never heard.
    Read the topic again. We're talking about the Klipsch theatre system I heard on Saturday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    In order to comment on a particular system, you have to actually hear it.
    That's the raison d'etre for this post Sparky. I have heard the incredible Klipsch theatre system that you seem to think is pretty good. (probably have before, but couldn't document it) Do you remember saying this?

    "You really cannot make this statement without actually listening to all of the theaterical sound system in the field. Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system?"

    The answer is YES. Been there and wasn't impressed. Next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Floating a voice realistically requires that the speakers have excellent phase characteristics, low in distortion, and a exceptionally flat frequency response in the presence region.
    The characteristic to which I refer is not limited to electrostats - just higher resolution gear than theatre systems with their limited quality components and cabling. The Nola Grand Reference and Scaenas are not stats, but have incredible resolution especially when driven by stuff beyond a pro QSC amp.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The size of the most electrostatics are a problem as well, as most of the listening I do is in multichannel.
    The discussion is theatre systems vs. high resolution home systems, not limited to stats. The big Nolas and Scaenas have far higher dynamic punch (albeit for a price) and don't sound like sound reinforcement gear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I have neither named the components in my cheaper system, nor have I named its price tag.
    And? Do you have a point to make? I refer to your comment that any good MC system can compete with any two channel system. Right-ty-o! If you read my comments again, notice the word "my" in italics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    You with zero information about the system (and the room it sits in)and yet you state that your e-stats as head and shoulder better than my system.
    Wherever did you read that? It is heads and shoulders over the Klipsch theater system for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    This is why I cannot take your audio snobbery seriously. If it ain't two channel, or built around mega buck amps and electrostatic panel, it is not good enough.
    Your inability to read what I've said is why I cannot take your superiority complex seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    You seem to have this completely backwards.
    You seem to have trouble reading. I described the experience I had in Memphis.

    rw

  8. #8
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    ...and thus you should not walk into a theater expecting to hear the level of clarity and smoothness you get from a home audio system.
    Finally! Why was that so difficult for you to admit?

    rw

  9. #9
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Empirically, I can now answer "yes". Let me preface my comments by saying that I appreciate your industry video insight and have learned quite a bit regarding the nuances involved with the video standards and specifically, how the Blu-Ray committee operates. FWIW, my thoughts on video have never differed from that of yours. With audio, however, we seemingly live on different planets.

    I wish to continue to voice my enthusiasm over the video miracle that is Avatar. In the past three weeks, I've seen it twice in Liemax (Mall of Georgia outside Atlanta, Jordan Crossing outside Salt Lake City) and just this weekend, in "mere" 3D at the Paradiso Cinema in Memphis. The larger Liemax screen definitely adds to the realism in that I find myself completely immersed in the picture. With the standard screen, I was aware that I was watching a rectangular projection with black space around it. In all cases, however, the sound was particularly good for theatres. I tried to discover exactly what the two recent IMAX theatrical screens were using, but couldn't find anything. I did, however, find a reference to exactly what I heard in Memphis found here.

    The 10.2 system most certainly could be characterized as clean, exceptionally flat in response and thoroughly capable of providing the 93 db peaks (as measured at my seat) without a trace of any strain. There is no question that it is quite good at delivering subterranean response at very high levels. I cannot say that I have heard better quality at any theatre elsewhere. Even the *real* IMAX theatres I've attended in Atlanta, Huntsville, Cape Canaveral, Washington, Las Vegas, Dallas, Myrtle Beach, Nashville, Fort Worth, Chattanooga (and probably a couple other cities I can't remember at this time) didn't provide better sound quality than the new Klipsch system in Memphis.

    Having said that, the musical performance was lackluster. I have the Avatar soundtrack and know it well. While one cannot entirely compare the full movie soundtrack to the musical score, there are sections in the movie that consist of music only. The movie begins with "You don't dream in cryo" and ends with Leona Lewis' theme. There is simply no comparison to what I heard with the Klipsch system and what I hear at home. There is no danger that one would ever confuse the theater system with live. Despite the twelve channels, the musical presentation is flat and lifeless. There are the front channels and there are the rear and side channels. Powerful and clean, yes - but the image sticks to the screen and never fools you into believing that there is an orchestra or Leona singing in front of you. With my main music system, however, there is a natural ease and transparency that far transcends the theatre experience. You not only hear Leona singing, but you hear her breath and the full emotion of the piece comes through. The image floats in front of you in a way that QSC class H amps and massive horn speakers can never convey. Harry Pearson's system can make all the walls in the room completely disappear (not only the with MC system, but the separate and higher resolution two channel as well) - while the image of theatres sticks strictly within the room.

    Theatre systems have come quite a way and provide a wonderful audio experience when viewing movies. They cannot, however, fool you to thinking that the performers are in your very room performing in the way that the highest resolution audio systems are capable of doing. Truly I say this not to bash or slam you or the industry - my earnest wish is that as a recording professional that you take a fresh look at what is truly possible with audio reproduction. I am confident that in time, such will be the case.

    rw
    To make this last statement is arrogant as hell. One would have to assume that another is NOT taking a fresh look at something just because it does not conform to the desires of another. Just more fresh BS from a arrogant golden eared audiophile.

    Here is another one of your stupid apples and oranges comparison. You are comparing a soundtrack, crafted as a whole to a film score that is mixed with other elements in mind such as the dialog and effects, something the soundtrack does not have. You do not know if the soundtrack is derived from the same master as the film score. You do not know what electronics that were involved in the recording and mixing of either, and yet you want to make a comparison of something that happen in a theater to that of what happens in your listening room. I thought you were smarter than this, but I guess not.
    Sir Terrence

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  10. #10
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    To make this last statement is arrogant as hell.
    Do you think that the Klipsch theatrical system sounds like live, unamplified music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Here is another one of your stupid apples and oranges comparison. You are comparing a soundtrack, crafted as a whole to a film score that is mixed with other elements in mind such as the dialog and effects, something the soundtrack does not have.
    It is a shame you have forgotten how to read! Let's review what I actually said and see if you can u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d. Here' s what I said specifically about that topic:

    "I have the Avatar soundtrack and know it well. While one cannot entirely compare the full movie soundtrack to the musical score, there are sections in the movie that consist of music only. The movie begins with "You don't dream in cryo" and ends with Leona Lewis' theme. There is simply no comparison to what I heard with the Klipsch system and what I hear at home."

    Is there any part of that you don't understand? I thought you were smarter.

    rw

  11. #11
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Read the topic again. We're talking about the Klipsch theatre system I heard on Saturday.
    And you still want to make that comparison to a home system? Rediculous!


    That's the raison d'etre for this post Sparky. I have heard the incredible Klipsch theatre system that you seem to think is pretty good. (probably have before, but couldn't document it) Do you remember saying this?
    The Klipsch system is a pretty good THEATRICAL system, and I would not compare it to a home speaker system. That would be retarded.

    "You really cannot make this statement without actually listening to all of the theaterical sound system in the field. Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system?"

    The answer is YES. Been there and wasn't impressed. Next.
    Here is some cake, woopeee


    The characteristic to which I refer is not limited to electrostats - just higher resolution gear than theatre systems with their limited quality components and cabling. The Nola Grand Reference and Scaenas are not stats, but have incredible resolution especially when driven by stuff beyond a pro QSC amp.
    Want more cake?



    The discussion is theatre systems vs. high resolution home systems, not limited to stats. The big Nolas and Scaenas have far higher dynamic punch (albeit for a price) and don't sound like sound reinforcement gear.
    This kind of discussion is stupid, and I said so the last time we visited this issue. Now if you still want to walk down this apples and oranges path, go ahead.



    And? Do you have a point to make? I refer to your comment that any good MC system can compete with any two channel system. Right-ty-o! If you read my comments again, notice the word "my" in italics.
    We are not going to agree on this, so there is no point in kicking a dead horse.


    Wherever did you read that? It is heads and shoulders over the Klipsch theater system for sure.
    Duh, you sure have a penchant for stating the obvious.


    Your inability to read what I've said is why I cannot take your superiority complex seriously.
    Whatever.....


    You seem to have trouble reading. I described the experience I had in Memphis.

    rw
    Great for ya. Meaningless in the grand scheme of things when you go in with a prejudiced mind
    Sir Terrence

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  12. #12
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Do you think that the Klipsch theatrical system sounds like live, unamplified music?
    Nope, but I do not think electrostatics have that quality either, no speaker does IMO.


    It is a shame you have forgotten how to read! Let's review what I actually said and see if you can u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d. Here' s what I said specifically about that topic:

    "I have the Avatar soundtrack and know it well. While one cannot entirely compare the full movie soundtrack to the musical score, there are sections in the movie that consist of music only. The movie begins with "You don't dream in cryo" and ends with Leona Lewis' theme. There is simply no comparison to what I heard with the Klipsch system and what I hear at home."

    Is there any part of that you don't understand? I thought you were smarter.

    rw
    And I thought you were smarter making such a stupid comparison in the first place. If one can not entirely compare, then why do it in the first place? Duh!

    You still don't know if the same master was used for the theatrical mix and the soundtrack. My experience tells me it likely was not, which makes any comparison invalid from jump street.

    Your entire post is wasted time.
    Sir Terrence

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  13. #13
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The Klipsch system is a pretty good THEATRICAL system, and I would not compare it to a home speaker system. That would be retarded.
    I am in 100% agreement when you did exactly that when I pointed out the obvious superiority in resolution with the best home systems!

    You really cannot make this statement without actually listening to all of the theaterical sound system in the field. Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system?"

    rw

  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Finally! Why was that so difficult for you to admit?

    rw
    It wasn't difficult to admit, that is why I said you cannot make the comparison in the first place grandpa! A theatrical system has a different job than a home audio system. So different the two cannot be compared. I have said this at least four times, and yet your pea brain cannot get its cells around that.
    Sir Terrence

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  15. #15
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    You still don't know if the same master was used for the theatrical mix and the soundtrack. My experience tells me it likely was not, which makes any comparison invalid from jump street.
    So the engineers took the studio recording of Leona Lewis and screwed it up? That's what your experience tells you! If that is true, then those engineers must be incompetent idiots. All they had to do was roll the cut during the end titles.

    rw

  16. #16
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    It wasn't difficult to admit, that is why I said you cannot make the comparison in the first place grandpa!
    Your retraction of two other comments to the contrary so noted.

    rw

  17. #17
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    I am in 100% agreement when you did exactly that when I pointed out the obvious superiority in resolution with the best home systems!

    You really cannot make this statement without actually listening to all of the theaterical sound system in the field. Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system?"

    rw
    The problem is that you had to point that out. You don't go into a theater expecting the sound system to mimic what you hear at home. Plain and simple. For you to even make this comparison is wacky and illogical.
    Sir Terrence

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  18. #18
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Your retraction of two other comments to the contrary so noted.

    rw
    I made no such retraction, do you have any other statements you would like to put in my mouth?
    Sir Terrence

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    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
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    THX Style Baffle wall

  19. #19
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    So the engineers took the studio recording of Leona Lewis and screwed it up? That's what your experience tells you! If that is true, then those engineers must be incompetent idiots. All they had to do was roll the cut during the end titles.

    rw
    Man, your statements just get more stupid as they go along. Who said they screwed it up?

    You don't mix a CD soundtrack the same way you mix a film score. You have elements in the film score that you have to balance against that you do not have in a CD score. My dog pepper could figure this out.

    Your arrogance is sickening, your uneducated prognostications are even worse.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
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    THX Style Baffle wall

  20. #20
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    You don't go into a theater expecting the sound system to mimic what you hear at home. Plain and simple. For you to even make this comparison is wacky and illogical.
    It was your comparison, senior. At the expense of confusing the issue with facts, it is you who attempted to defend theatrical systems (huh?) - for which you now say is a retarded thing to do!

    "Wow E, I am surprised that you found IMAX's audio to be just mediocre...The real IMAX has the 8 story screen, the 14,000 watt worth of power, and two surrounds as opposed to the common array of speakers. It uses the basic 5.1 channel setup with a front height channel the fake IMAX does not have. I have found the real IMAX sound system to be head and shoulders above the typical theater sound system."

    Presumably, now you would say it is not fair to compare a theatrical system with a high resolution home system since the home systems trump them in clarity and smoothness. We agree 100% !

    rw

  21. #21
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Man, your statements just get more stupid as they go along. Who said they screwed it up?
    That would be your intimation to "defend" the mediocre sonic result. Remember this?

    "You still don't know if the same master was used for the theatrical mix and the soundtrack."

    Why would there be any difference whatsoever in the Leona Lewis track released on CD and that which they played at the end of the movie? The movie was over! There was no dialogue. No sound effects. They just played the theme!

    rw

  22. #22
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    That would be your intimation to "defend" the mediocre sonic result. Remember this?

    "You still don't know if the same master was used for the theatrical mix and the soundtrack."

    Why would there be any difference whatsoever in the Leona Lewis track released on CD and that which they played at the end of the movie? The movie was over! There was no dialogue. No sound effects. They just played the theme!

    rw
    It doesn't freakin matter if it was just the theme. Theatrical sound mixes are different from audio only presentations. If the same printmaster was not used, then your argument is just plain stupid. If the equipment used to mix both was not the same(and it usually isn't) then your argument is stupid. If the CD has two channels, and theatrical mix has 5.1, then your argument is stupid, they are not from the same master, and cannot be compared. If you heard one on a Klipsch theatrical system, and the other on a electrostatic panel in your home, of course they are going to sound different, it is stupid to compare. If you heard one in a theater, the other in your room, then there is no comparison between the two. One is being heard in the nearfield, the other in the far field with all of the acoustical signature of that theater.

    Nothing is equal in your argument, so no comparison can be made. It is just that simple.

    If you are going to pick a fight on something, perhaps you need to get your duck lined up differently. Your comparison is just plain stupid. If you walked into a theater expecting the same audio experience as you get at home, or even comparing a theatrical speaker system to a home one, then your whole comparison was stupid from the get go. The jobs they have to do is so drastically different, they cannot be compared, and it is stupid to do so.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
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    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
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  23. #23
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    If the same printmaster was not used, then your argument is just plain stupid.
    If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass. If the engineers weren't incompetent fools, they wouldn't have sacrificed any of the sound quality found in the soundtrack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    If the equipment used to mix both was not the same(and it usually isn't) then your argument is stupid.
    Well, your argument most certainly is stupid. Why would you remix that which has already been mixed and recorded? Why would you go out of your way to screw up the quality of that which was already there? Are you serious with these *retarded* (your word) speculations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    If the CD has two channels, and theatrical mix has 5.1, then your argument is stupid, they are not from the same master, and cannot be compared.
    Gee, it is you who always says MC will always outperform two channel. If the two channel sounds significantly better than the MC, what does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    One is being heard in the nearfield, the other in the far field with all of the acoustical signature of that theater.
    Your backpeddling is amusing. We have a very different concept of resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Nothing is equal in your argument, so no comparison can be made. It is just that simple.
    On this we agree. It is retarded to compare the quality of sound provided by theater quality gear and the best home systems. Professional sound reinforcement ALWAYS involves qualitative compromises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    If you walked into a theater expecting the same audio experience as you get at home, or even comparing a theatrical speaker system to a home one, then your whole comparison was stupid from the get go.
    I have never expected the same quality from theatre horns, pro amps and crappy cabling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The jobs they have to do is so drastically different, they cannot be compared, and it is stupid to do so.
    Perhaps you'll remember that the next time I make that observation. Attempting to defend their mediocre quality is pointless.

    rw

  24. #24
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    It was your comparison, senior. At the expense of confusing the issue with facts, it is you who attempted to defend theatrical systems (huh?) - for which you now say is a retarded thing to do!

    "Wow E, I am surprised that you found IMAX's audio to be just mediocre...The real IMAX has the 8 story screen, the 14,000 watt worth of power, and two surrounds as opposed to the common array of speakers. It uses the basic 5.1 channel setup with a front height channel the fake IMAX does not have. I have found the real IMAX sound system to be head and shoulders above the typical theater sound system."

    Presumably, now you would say it is not fair to compare a theatrical system with a high resolution home system since the home systems trump them in clarity and smoothness. We agree 100% !

    rw
    Okay bozo, where in this sentence did I say this system was comparable to any home system. Let's see......no where. I said comparable to a typical theater sound didn't I.

    I said if you walk into a theater expecting it to sound like a home audio system, you are stupid. I still say that, nothing has changed. If you want to keep beating this horse, more power to you.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  25. #25
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    You sound like intelligent 13 year olds arguing. It's a bit pathetic.

    E-Stat, Terrence is obviously stubborn and hates to admit things.
    Terrence, E-Stat seems to have a little of that but frankly I'm agreeing more with him. Get over it.

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