Set up with Vintage speakers

Well I am hooked up and still trying to figure the ins and outs of the HT world. My Onkyo 705 seems to work fine. I don't have a subwoofer yet but this is what I have done so far. I went ahead and left the 4 ohm Axiom M80s as my fronts (protection circuit hasn't kicked in and it doesn't seem to be running hot - I was worried about that) and used 8 ohm McIntosh XL-10's for the rear surrounds, Boston A60's - one as the front center and one as the rear center. So far so good. I think using my McI XL-10's as the surrounds is overkill for no more than they are getting used. Have some Cambridge audio 60's I might move in to replace them. May also move my 8 ohm McIntosh XR5's in to try as my front left and center.

I have to say - those music concert DVD's are fabulous. Not much money left to spend so I am looking at a BIC H100 sub to use for now or maybe a used Genesis 12?

Comments?

Anyone know of any concert DVD's that are especially good? So far I have listened to Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire, Eagles, Sting, Dixie Chicks and have ordered the Tower of Power.

If you are moving into HT the sub is very important, don't skimp on it. Wait until you can get the best you can afford. Since you bought Axiom fronts (direct to buyer company) look to HSU, SVS or Outlaw Audio for your sub (the sub can be from a different brand). The amp in the sub will cross over from the M80's at about 60-80hz (your choice depending on your room and other speakers) and take over all the low bass. That will take lots of the bass strain off of your receiver's amps and it will loaf along in most circumstances. It is more difficult for an amp to drive the low bass than the higher frequencies. This is why a powered sub with its own dedicated amp is so important.

Don't get too hung up on the "impedence" rating of the speakers and the receiver amps. Most decent receiver amps will perform just fine at 6 ohms and even 4 ohms. In fact they put out more power in watts at the lower impedence. It is just a harder drive for the amp. The better the amp the easier it is. Yours seems to be doing fine even when required to send the low bass power to the M80's. Most receivers do not list performance at 4 ohms because of the power rating rules. They still will drive 4 ohms speakers fine in most cases, except for entry level receivers and some medium level receivers with skimpy amps. Remember that the ohms rating of speakers is only an estimate and varies according to the frequency. Some speakers rated at 4 ohms actually drop down to 3 ohms or less and others rated at 4 ohms stay at 4-5 ohms or higher. Look to pro reviews to get the real world impedence performance on speakers. Usually the low impedence problems are presented by the more "exoticly designed" and some of the "high end" speakers.

You have a basket of different speakers there. For the best in HT sound and also multi-channel music I would stay with the same brand. Dump some of your speakers and look to Axiom for the center channel. The Axiom VP150 is voice/timbre matched with the
M80's and will provide the best smooth sound spread across the front soundstage. This is extremely important in multi-channel sound whether it is music or HT.

Next get yourself a pair of Axiom QS8's for the surrounds. Axiom calls their design "quadpolar" and they are an amazingly good surround speaker and again are perfectly matched with the M80's.

Doesn't make any difference how good the indiviual speakers are if they have a different sound profile. In a 5.1 or 7.1 system ALL the speakers should be as closely voice/timbre matched as possible. This makes a clearly audible improvment. Decide on the left and right if you will and then add the center and surrounds from the same brand and series.

Some ammo from the pros:

"...... I have an A/V receiver rated to drive “8-ohm or 6-ohm” speakers, but a home theater system I'm considering has a 6-ohm center speaker, 4-ohm main speakers and 6-ohm surrounds. How do I match the impedances?

You do not have to match speaker impedances! A 5.1- or 7.1-channel A/V receiver contains up to seven separate amplifiers, each one assigned to a specific speaker in the system. So each amplifier only “sees” one impedance per channel, not five or seven. The respective speaker impedances of the other speakers and channels don't need to match. Many A/V receivers will easily drive a pair of 4-ohm front speakers, a 6-ohm center channel, and two pairs of 8-ohm surrounds. Speaker impedance has nothing to do with sound quality. It's an electrical characteristic......"

".....The closer the tonal match between the center channel, main left and right, and surrounds, the better your overall experience will be. Likewise, you may have used some older speakers from days gone by as “temporary” surrounds. Speaker technology improves on average every five years and great strides have been made in dedicated multi-polar surrounds that mimic the envelopment in effects you experience in a big cinema. So replace those aging surrounds with a dedicated effects speaker, preferably one that uses multiple drivers to enhance envelopment for all the viewers no matter where they sit......"

RR6 (no I don't work for Axiom, I just happen to own 5 of their speakers)

Thanks for the info. Just one question: My Onkyon 705 allows me to change the speaker impedence from 8 ohm to 4 ohm. I went ahead and set it to 4ohm. Will this have any adverse effect on the 8 ohm speakers in the system?

Traugh,

Generally speaking, for most brands of receivers it is recommended that you always leave the 4-8 ohm impedence switch on the reciever at the 8 ohm setting regardless of the published impedence rating of the speaker. Here is an explanation that I have seen referenced many times and seems to be correct for most receivers (except for some specific receiver amps such as Adcom).

.........."This so called feature, used by some manufacturers, is designed to prevent overheating of the receiver or damage to its output transistors because of excessive current flow. The manufacturer accomplishes this in one of 2 ways: 1) Stepping down rail voltage supplied to the power amp or 2) feeding half the signal strength to a voltage divider of power resistors. Both of these methods severely limit dynamics and current capability of the power amp. This results in an audible decrease in bass capability and dynamics transient sound because the 4 ohm setting effectively increases the receiver's output impedance. Unfortunately many manufacturers put these features on their products to ease customer concerns with driving low impedance loads and for safety reasons when getting UL approvals. Note: In order to meet UL requirements, a receiver cannot be rated down to 4 ohms without having this switch onboard. Receivers without this switch are usually rated down to 6 ohms. In most cases, well designed receivers can easily handle 4 ohm loads safely and efficiently. It is highly recommend to keep the impedance switch set to 8 ohms regardless of your speakers impedance and make sure your receiver has plenty of ventilation..........."

RR6

Here is the latest on my "less" vintage setup.
Took my McIntosh XL-10's out of the mix. They were way too much
speaker for no more than they were getting used. I replaced them with the
Cambridge M50's I had in the dining room. They are smaller and I could get them
up to listener ear level (which I couldn't do with the Mc's). I replaced the boston speaker I was using as a center with an axiom M22ti above the TV which improves the tonal balance across the front. My fronts are Axiom M80ti. Kept a single Boston A-60 speaker as my rear source (decided to go 6.1). For now I am using the BIC h-100 sub which is doing ok. Overall the sound for HT seems to be nice and my wife likes it better as well. I suspect that for any extended stereo (music) listening I will listen to one of the sets of mc's I have. I suspect there will be less fatigue with them. Switched the receiver to 8 ohm load and it is running hotter but not overly so. In short, my vintage setup is no longer so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoadRunner6

You have a basket of different speakers there. For the best in HT sound and also multi-channel music I would stay with the same brand. Dump some of your speakers and look to Axiom for the center channel. The Axiom VP150 is voice/timbre matched with the
M80's and will provide the best smooth sound spread across the front soundstage. This is extremely important in multi-channel sound whether it is music or HT.

Next get yourself a pair of Axiom QS8's for the surrounds. Axiom calls their design "quadpolar" and they are an amazingly good surround speaker and again are perfectly matched with the M80's.

Doesn't make any difference how good the indiviual speakers are if they have a different sound profile. In a 5.1 or 7.1 system ALL the speakers should be as closely voice/timbre matched as possible. This makes a clearly audible improvment. Decide on the left and right if you will and then add the center and surrounds from the same brand and series.


RR6

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This point cannot be overstated. There was a time during the original ProLogic days when we could throw together a dog's breakfast of speakers and it would work passably well. Those days are behind us.

Modern multichannel sound demands a greater degree of timbre matching and overall output from all speakers. In the beginning, you need to use what you've got, of course, but the goal should be to move toward similarly voiced speakers from the same model line. This will provide the most stable soundstage and seamless transitions.

As you get a chance over time to consolidate your system, you'll be even more appreciative of the wonders of multichannel sound. Good luck!