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  1. #1
    AR Newbie Registered Member
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    SAMSUNG LCD vs. Panasonic Plasma

    I'm looking to purchase one of the two. I need your experiences on which to buy.

    Samsung 55" LCD - Model(LN55B650) for $1799

    or

    Panasonic 58" Plasma Viera - Model(TC-P58s1) for $1899



    Any assistance would be helpful

  2. #2
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Welcome to AR. Hope you post many more times.

    Both of your choices look good. Either will look great. Which one is best for you depends on a few things. Please fill us in on:

    1) What will you be using it for? TV, movie, gaming, %'s.
    2) Is the room it's going in have controlled lighting?
    3) Do you watch durring the day, at night, or both?
    4) How will it be set up? On a stand or wall mounted? If mounted, by who? You or a pro?
    5) Do you care about energy consumption?
    6) How far from the set do you watch from.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    I am going to recuse myself because I hate plasma (hateithateithateit).
    But I think most will agree that if you do a lot of gaming or news channel watching
    stay away from the plasma.
    And I was just reading yesterday that plasma requires 300 hrs for the phospers
    to "cure"(that coming from the Panny rep).
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  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    I am going to go with the Panasonic Plasma unless the set will be sitting in an area with a high ambient lighting level. One of the biggest myths around the internet is that plasmas suffer from burn in when used for gaming or watching programming with a broadcast bug constantly showing. This hasn't been true for the last three generation of plasma televisions, its a myth that does not want to die. If the television is not abused (left in torch mode, or not left with stagnant image during burn in period) burn in is virtually impossible, especially on Pioneer and Panasonic models. If you keep the contrast level below 50 during the first 100-200 hours, burn in will not be a problem. Burn in, and temporary image rentention are not the same thing. The Panasonic has a pixel shifting mode that prevents burn in.

    The Panasonic model comes with some important features the LCD does not have. First a 40,000-1 native contrast level, a THX mode, is 600mhz subdrive, and has a dedicated gaming mode that prevents burn in. Plasmas have a more natural picture quality, no blurring issues, DEEP blacks, and more accurate color rendition than the Samsung. When calibrated shadow detail is much better than the Samsung, and color accuracy is much better as well.

    My caveat to all of this would be if you are going to be viewing your set in a high ambient light level environment, the LCD is probably the better choice. However if you are doing most of your viewing in darkened or dark rooms, then plasma rules over LCD.
    Sir Terrence

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  5. #5
    Forum Regular
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    The Panasonic model comes with some important features the LCD does not have. First a 40,000-1 native contrast level, a THX mode, is 600mhz subdrive, and has a dedicated gaming mode that prevents burn in. Plasmas have a more natural picture quality, no blurring issues, DEEP blacks, and more accurate color rendition than the Samsung. When calibrated shadow detail is much better than the Samsung, and color accuracy is much better as well.

    Good morning
    if you will, please define 600mHz subfield drive; Seems t be alot of confusion about its' actual benefit
    thanks

  6. #6
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVMASTER
    The Panasonic model comes with some important features the LCD does not have. First a 40,000-1 native contrast level, a THX mode, is 600mhz subdrive, and has a dedicated gaming mode that prevents burn in. Plasmas have a more natural picture quality, no blurring issues, DEEP blacks, and more accurate color rendition than the Samsung. When calibrated shadow detail is much better than the Samsung, and color accuracy is much better as well.

    Good morning
    if you will, please define 600mHz subfield drive; Seems t be alot of confusion about its' actual benefit
    thanks
    Here is how I understand it.

    Each "pixel" on a plasma is actually made up of 3 sub-pixels, one each for R,G,B. The way a plasma changes the intensity of the light output is to rapidly turn on/off (modulate) the individual sub-pixels.

    For a 60Hz signal they have to modulate it much faster than that rate to make the picture look good.

    In theory the faster the modulation the better since it should allow you to display finer gradations in light intensity.

    They got it by the following math:

    10 subfields per frame x 60 frames per second = 600 subfields per second = 600Hz
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 12-10-2009 at 04:30 AM.
    Sir Terrence

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  7. #7
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by AVMASTER
    The Panasonic model comes with some important features the LCD does not have. First a 40,000-1 native contrast level, a THX mode, is 600mhz subdrive, and has a dedicated gaming mode that prevents burn in. Plasmas have a more natural picture quality, no blurring issues, DEEP blacks, and more accurate color rendition than the Samsung. When calibrated shadow detail is much better than the Samsung, and color accuracy is much better as well.

    Good morning
    if you will, please define 600mHz subfield drive; Seems t be alot of confusion about its' actual benefit
    thanks
    The technical name for a 600hz "subdrive" is GIMMICK..
    A plasma weighs more, is dimmer than an LCD, has glare and energy use problems,
    and as most owners will find out in a most unplesant manner down the road, has the lifespan of a fruitfly.
    And burn -in can be a problem, most "cures" that have been developed for this problem involve the picture jumping around like a mexican jumping bean.
    One good thing about plasma, there is a good chance to get in on a class action lawsuit
    sometime in the future(several are ongoing now).
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  8. #8
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    The technical name for a 600hz "subdrive" is GIMMICK..
    A plasma weighs more, is dimmer than an LCD, has glare and energy use problems,
    and as most owners will find out in a most unplesant manner down the road, has the lifespan of a fruitfly.
    So a plasma is dimmer than a LCD; if they are both properly calibrated, all that extra light is unnecessary. That claim is also a GIMMICK. My Kuros does not have a glare issue, and none of the Panasonic I have seen have this issue. Are you sure you are not fine painting with a street sweeper?

    And burn -in can be a problem, most "cures" that have been developed for this problem involve the picture jumping around like a mexican jumping bean.
    That only happens when the picture is stationary, and remains that way for a certain period. If the technique works, and it does not effect picture quality when playing a movie or watching a television show, then what is the issue? Majoring in Minors or....zero?

    One good thing about plasma, there is a good chance to get in on a class action lawsuit
    sometime in the future(several are ongoing now).
    Red herring and disperate. Lawsuits go on all the time on various products out there from legit to just plain petty. You have to kind of show a landslide of evidence before you can use this claim as a basis of your argument. Just vaguely mentioning it without a foundation and context makes it a pretty hollow argument.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 12-10-2009 at 04:29 AM.
    Sir Terrence

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  9. #9
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    The technical name for a 600hz "subdrive" is GIMMICK..
    A plasma weighs more, is dimmer than an LCD, has glare and energy use problems,
    and as most owners will find out in a most unplesant manner down the road, has the lifespan of a fruitfly.
    And burn -in can be a problem, most "cures" that have been developed for this problem involve the picture jumping around like a mexican jumping bean.
    One good thing about plasma, there is a good chance to get in on a class action lawsuit
    sometime in the future(several are ongoing now).

    Pix, come on now, your hyperbole is getting in the way of otherwise helpful advice. I have a plasma EDTV that is still going strong, has a great picture and no burn ins...and that set has to be at least 6 or 7 years old now. My current 42" plasma doesn't have burn in either, and I almost exclusively watch sports and channels with ticker tapes at either the top or bottom like ESPN, CNN, NFL Network, NBA TV, etc. All of the time. No burn in.

    Burn in and practical longevity is not going to be the issue with plasma. Ambient lighting, energy consumption, etc., these are issues to research and consider.
    Last edited by BadAssJazz; 12-10-2009 at 09:09 AM.
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  10. #10
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    I have one of last year's entry level Panny 1080p models and I couldn't be happier. The picture quality is outstanding and after calibrating the levels, it blows away the demo units you see at most retail stores. I generally have a preference for plasmas, and have generally found that they deliver better image quality across different price points. There are LCD TVs that I thought delivered very good image quality as well, but those are generally in the higher price ranges.

    As T, AV, and BAJ have indicated (Pix recused himself in his first post, so feel free to take that literally), you need to consider the room conditions and your specific needs and preferences.

    Between these two models, you need to consider that you're comparing Panasonic's entry level 1080p plasma against one of Samsung's midlevel LCD models. In all likelihood, the midlevel Samsung will have more advanced color processing and they generally come with more flexible controls than the Pannys. The 120 Hz refresh is a double edged sword in that it improves the motion resolution and reduces judder with film-based sources. But, you also need to be beware of how you use the Auto Motion Plus feature that comes with it. That interpolation function has the side effect of making film sources look like video from a bad soap opera. Fortunately, Samsung allows you to override that function. Although glare is usually considered more of an issue for plasmas, check on whether this Samsung model uses a glossy screen. If it does, then the glare might be a much bigger issue than with the Panny, which has an anti-reflective filter.

    Plasma has some inherent advantages with the overall image quality, motion resolution, and viewing angle. That particular Panny model does not have the THX mode that reviews have indicated help with the color accuracy. Reviews have indicated that the primary color accuracy is a weakness with the S1 series, but it remains a strong performer in other areas like contrast, shadow detail, color saturation, and motion resolution. And it uses Panasonic's NeoPDP panel, so it will use less than half the power that the sets from two years ago did. The G10 series is where you start getting the THX mode and the more advanced color processing. Top to bottom, the Pannys in general are noted for their picture quality and reliability.

    The Samsung is probably the better deal because it's simply a bigger markdown from list price (about $1000 off). But, you need to consider you needs and preferences. For me, the fatal flaw of LCD TVs is their narrow viewing angle (two of my inlaws have Samsungs and after getting used to my plasma, I really notice the color shifting that occurs whenever I visit and watch their TV from the side). For others, plasma's fatal flaw is the lower maximum light output (to me it's a nonissue because I calibrate my TVs and the calibrated reference standards are well within plasma's output capability).
    Last edited by Woochifer; 12-10-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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  11. #11
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Has anyone noticed that the OP is long gone?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Has anyone noticed that the OP is long gone?
    We get lots of that this time of year. People dropping in with an A vs. B question, and then skipping out.
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
    Panasonic VIERA TH-C50FD18 50" 1080p
    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
    Adire Audio Rava (EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP1124)
    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
    Sony Playstation 3 (MediaLink OS X Server)
    Sony ES SCD-C2000ES
    JVC HR-S3912U
    Directv HR44 and WVB
    Logitech Harmony 700
    iPhone 5s/iPad 3
    Linksys WES610



    The Neverending DVD/BD Collection

    Subwoofer Setup and Parametric EQ Results *Dead Link*

  13. #13
    Charm Thai™
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    ...For me, the fatal flaw of LCD TVs is their narrow viewing angle ...
    Add me to this list. Until this changes I'll never buy an LCD.

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