• 10-22-2008, 05:05 AM
    kexodusc
    Question on 3:2 pulldown detection
    Here's a question for the video buffs out there:

    I went over to a friend's place last night to help him calibrate his new 52" Sharp Aquos. Nice set!

    Anway a question came up that I wasn't 100% sure on.

    Most modern HD displays have a video setting that has 3:2 pulldown detection.
    In most TV menu's I've seen the option to engage or disengage the 3:2 pulldown detection. Usually the options are called "Video" and Film or "auto", in this case it was Film Mode, and on or off. I'm not a video expert, but I believe the purpose of this setting is to apply the 3:2 pulldown processing.

    DVE and other discs say to leave it on "Film" or "Auto". What I don't understand is why even have an option at all if the set auto-detects when it's needed? Is there any danger of the processing being applied when it shouldn't?

    This guy wanted to know if he should have the setting off? I figure maybe sports aren't filmed at 24 fps so there wouldn't be any 3:2 pulldown flag, or processing applied, but I'm not sure. Is there ever a time when these things should be set to "Video" or "off"
  • 10-23-2008, 12:55 AM
    pixelthis
    I have seen these settings on DVD players but not on TV sets.
    Perhaps the scaler needs to know, if so I would leave it on "auto".
    Wont make any difference for sports, which are video, mostly.
    The only time 3:2 pulldown is a concern is for movies played off of DVD.
    Blu solves the 3:2 bugaboo completely with 24fps showing of all film material, even DVD's are shown in that framerate, and if your set is
    even close to new it will display it.
    And it looks great.
    Btw it takes 24 frames, creates three of each for 72hz.:1:
  • 10-23-2008, 05:15 AM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I have seen these settings on DVD players but not on TV sets.
    Perhaps the scaler needs to know, if so I would leave it on "auto".
    Wont make any difference for sports, which are video, mostly.

    No, it has nothing to do with the scaler, just the activation of 3:2 pulldown processing or not. Yeah leaving it to Auto is what I always do. I'm just wondering when you'd ever put it to video if auto knows when and when not to apply it.

    Quote:

    and if your set is
    even close to new it will display it
    Be careful, Pix...not all new sets are truly displaying 24p yet. The TV companies pulled a fast one over everyone on the 24p thing. A lot of LCD's are capable of accepting 24 fps but then internally convert it to 60 Hz, defeating the purpose 24p in the first place.

    A quick google will produce lists of TV's that do accept 24p and can display it...Make sure your set plays 24p natively, and be wary of statements like "24p compatable", "supports 24p" or "accepts 24p".

    Not a big deal overall, according to the ISF, the list of importance for picture quality is:
    1) contrast
    2) color saturation
    3) color accuracy
    4) resolution (1080p not so important after all)

    the effects of 3:2 pulldown are somewhere even lower on the list. I can think of a few scenes where judder was noticeable on DVD's, but to be fair, it is very hard to notice if people don't know what they're looking for. If the movie's any good, you're probably not paying attention to judder artifacts. I would rather have an insignificant amount of judder than a deficiency in any of the 4 specs above...but given the option I'd always like to have my cake and eat it too.

    That whole 24 fps thing is overrated anyway. It's pretty sad that the film industry still uses 24 fps instead of 30 or even 60 fps. It should be a lot better than 24fps by now.
  • 10-23-2008, 10:40 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kexodusc
    No, it has nothing to do with the scaler, just the activation of 3:2 pulldown processing or not. Yeah leaving it to Auto is what I always do. I'm just wondering when you'd ever put it to video if auto knows when and when not to apply it.


    Be careful, Pix...not all new sets are truly displaying 24p yet. The TV companies pulled a fast one over everyone on the 24p thing. A lot of LCD's are capable of accepting 24 fps but then internally convert it to 60 Hz, defeating the purpose 24p in the first place.

    A quick google will produce lists of TV's that do accept 24p and can display it...Make sure your set plays 24p natively, and be wary of statements like "24p compatable", "supports 24p" or "accepts 24p".

    Not a big deal overall, according to the ISF, the list of importance for picture quality is:
    1) contrast
    2) color saturation
    3) color accuracy
    4) resolution (1080p not so important after all)

    the effects of 3:2 pulldown are somewhere even lower on the list. I can think of a few scenes where judder was noticeable on DVD's, but to be fair, it is very hard to notice if people don't know what they're looking for. If the movie's any good, you're probably not paying attention to judder artifacts. I would rather have an insignificant amount of judder than a deficiency in any of the 4 specs above...but given the option I'd always like to have my cake and eat it too.

    That whole 24 fps thing is overrated anyway. It's pretty sad that the film industry still uses 24 fps instead of 30 or even 60 fps. It should be a lot better than 24fps by now.

    More and more are using HD video, its my understanding that there is some tech reason to use 24fps.
    And 3:2 pulldown is associated with the scaler, some scalers do the 3:2
    and other functions when scaling the pic.
    And 3:2 is way down on my list of whats important also, but its kinda
    like air, dont miss it until its gone.
    The greatest thing about my new set is its almost total lack of artifacts.
    No jagged horizontal lines, no double images, "rainbows", etc.
    My set "utilizes" 24fps acording to the literature, whatever that means.
    As long as teh pics good...:1:
  • 10-24-2008, 05:35 AM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis
    More and more are using HD video, its my understanding that there is some tech reason to use 24fps.
    And 3:2 pulldown is associated with the scaler, some scalers do the 3:2
    and other functions when scaling the pic.
    And 3:2 is way down on my list of whats important also, but its kinda
    like air, dont miss it until its gone.
    The greatest thing about my new set is its almost total lack of artifacts.
    No jagged horizontal lines, no double images, "rainbows", etc.
    My set "utilizes" 24fps acording to the literature, whatever that means.
    As long as teh pics good...:1:

    Yeah, that's true. I worry less about specs than what I can see with my eyes. I wouldn't have even known what judder and was if I didn't look it up. My old 51" set does a 3:2 pulldown...but I can't notice with the rare exception of some very slow panning CGI backgrounds...and even then I have to look hard for it. My new LCD and projector play it natively, but last night just for gigles during the Iron Man BluRay, I set it back to 60 Hz (forcing it to use 3:2 pulldown). I can't tell a difference, so artifacts are either harder to catch in HD, or decent sets do 3:2 pulldown very well.

    If what you're watching's any good, you shouldn't even be thinking about the degree of picture quality. I only start evaluating PQ when my wife makes me watch one of her rentals...