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  1. #1
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    Playstation 2 on HDTV

    Would upgrading the PS2 cables to component make a big difference in picture quality on a 1080p HDTV?

  2. #2
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbelous
    Would upgrading the PS2 cables to component make a big difference in picture quality on a 1080p HDTV?
    Not as much as upgrading to either a PS3 or XBOX 360. Although there are reports that playback of PS2 games on the PS3 are visually awful as the PS3 has no scaler. So your PS2 games actually look worse on a PS3.

    If you are only currently using the yellow "Video" cable, then I would imagine your picture would improve somewhat. Also, does the PS2 have a setup menu for your TV? I know the orginal XBOX did. This way you can choose a widescreen option, and also your definition (480p etc). The orignal PS2 would not be able to push more than 480p. This should help as well.

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    Okay, I don't have the tv yet, just trying to plan ahead for what I might need and want to do. Right now the PS2 is on a 19" tv with composite connections. I haven't gone thru the set up at all to see what options I have. Guess I'll just wait till I get it and go with the component and hope for the best.
    I just don't see the PS3 in the nearby future.

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    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbelous
    Okay, I don't have the tv yet, just trying to plan ahead for what I might need and want to do. Right now the PS2 is on a 19" tv with composite connections. I haven't gone thru the set up at all to see what options I have. Guess I'll just wait till I get it and go with the component and hope for the best.
    I just don't see the PS3 in the nearby future.
    Yes, by all means buy the TV for future needs, not what will satisfy your PS2 needs. As worst case play your PS2 on existing TV, and really enjoy a new TV for ....TV?

    I wouldn't get a PS3 myself either.

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    yeah the PS will definitely be secondary to movies and tv so no major worries if it isnt the best. thanks for the help!

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    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Any cable upgrade would help with the PS2, S-video/components, but don't think you may get HD level PQ, just as stated above 480p may be max. I'm not a console gamer myself, But I have my reservation about the consoles being able to output true HD level PQ. First the game itself would need to be HD format such as DVD-HD/Blue-Ray. I remember when the PS2 and Xbox came out and many thought they were HD/5.1 compatible. Then the real news came out about how ppl needed the HD cables (components lines). Then there that ever missing bit of information the sales person fails to tell ppl.
    1. The software needs to be at that level, 2. For surround sound/5.1 you need to be connected toslink/optically, 3. The TV needs to able to support the HD also.

    Somewhere in the process most ppl never get the full scoop, and go home thinking they are playing their games in HD with it connected composite and analog RCA. Many will argue you down if you say othre wise and defend the sales guy as if he was the second coming of Christ.
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    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone
    But I have my reservation about the consoles being able to output true HD level PQ. First the game itself would need to be HD format such as DVD-HD/Blue-Ray.
    HD-DVD/Blu-ray is NOT needed for a game to be HD. 360 pushes 480p/720p/1080i and 1080p w/TV's that support 1080p resolution. The HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is simply for additional storage.

    In fact, the original XBOX had several games that supported resolutions of 720p, and that was last gen. The PS2 didn't, can't and never will support higher than 480p.

    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone
    Somewhere in the process most ppl never get the full scoop, and go home thinking they are playing their games in HD with it connected composite and analog RCA. Many will argue you down if you say othre wise and defend the sales guy as if he was the second coming of Christ.
    I concur. Also interesting to note that the downscaling issue with the PS3 apparently CANNOT be solved w/software update. So if you have a 480p/720p/1080i TV, your PS3 will DOWNSCALE every game to 480p. Hows that for HD gaming? Thats even using the HDMI connection.....those silly guys over at Sony.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    They're saying that the PS3 very well could be the worst flop in the history of electronics. It does nothing it was supposed to, and Bluray is tanking so I believe it. Plus I love my Xbox360 and just saw no reason at all to even consider a PS3.

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    Yes it does make a difference,the same difference as a dvd player going from interlaced to progressive.Not all games will support it though.There is no reason i can think of that the ps3 would make ps2 games look bad.Games have been tested and it was reported that about 200 ps2 games would not play at all,but that is from a library of about 8000 games,so not that bad.BTW i saw a ps3 today playing a blue ray film on a 70 in sony television and it looked spectacular.

    bill

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    guitar mongoose icarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundbeef
    I wouldn't get a PS3 myself either.
    Hopefully one of these days you'll cross over from the dark-side and like the Playstation... Im just reaching for the stars on this one, but all of us (small group) that are die-hard playstation fans hope that one day you'll like it, alomst as much as your 360.

    At the rate that this thread is going, I am going to very unpopular being a ps3 fan, amongst a thread that is rapidly turning into another ps3 bash fest. So if it gets unbearable for me to take, ill just curl up in a ball, cover my ears, start crying and repeating to myself that your all liars
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    that makes as much sense as a drunken mongoose playing the piano

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    Forum Regular DaHaq's Avatar
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    PS2 is capable of 1080i...

    Although Gran Turismo 4 may be the only game to utilize it. In my opinion component cables make the picture look much better even on a 480i signal, although for PS2 an S-Video cable would probably work just fine. As far as PS2 games looking like crap on PS3, here's some video evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoCD9TwLrVs
    Although apparently with the new firmware the problem has been attended to

  12. #12
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Hey speaking of Gran Turismo 4 and Sony's blunders...did you see the latest one? Maybe the best Sony blunder yet!

    http://www.randyrants.com/2007/01/zomg_stop_thief.html

    Using artwork from Xbox360's PGR3 to advertise for Gran Turismo 4!!! PRICELESS!

    I also read a while back that Gran Turismo 4 will cost the normal $60 but will come 'blank'...you will actually have to go online and buy each car and each track you want. Is that true?

  13. #13
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    Yes it does make a difference,the same difference as a dvd player going from interlaced to progressive.Not all games will support it though.There is no reason i can think of that the ps3 would make ps2 games look bad.Games have been tested and it was reported that about 200 ps2 games would not play at all,but that is from a library of about 8000 games,so not that bad.BTW i saw a ps3 today playing a blue ray film on a 70 in sony television and it looked spectacular.

    bill
    No, it doesn't make a difference for games. MS already adressed the issue several times, and each time they were correct. HD gaming DOES NOT require the next generation of drives to play. Although HD-DVD/Blu-Ray have much greater storage, GAMES do not require its use.

    The reason that PS3 plays PS2 games poorly is a lack of scaler in the machine. I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV, but that is the discussion. There were also some coding issues in the emulation programs, and I think that problem has been taken care of.

    I am sure the Blu-Ray movie looked good. It should. Hopefully it was in 1080p, and not downscaled to 480p like PS3 does on most HD TV's.

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    How could that happen?The tv would scale the signal to its native resolution,which would not be 480p.

    bill

  15. #15
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    How could that happen?The tv would scale the signal to its native resolution,which would not be 480p.

    bill
    The problem is with the PS3 and the lack of scaler. If your TV is native 480p/720i/1080i, the PS3 detects this.

    Instead of projecting the image at 720i or even 1080i, it DOWNconverts to 480p. If you have 1080p there there is no problem.

    Stupid yes? Why? I don't know. It is well known, and Sony is attempting to address currently. Many in the tech field feel that it can't be solved w/software.

    I'll step back for a second. This is for OLDER TV's that offer resolution of 480p/1080i.

    PS3 will downconvert to 480p

    http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2006/11/16/...tv-lacks-720p/

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    Interesting,I did a little research and it does only affect CRT HDTV's and some of the articles i read said that it was only over the HDMI output not component.Also they stated that it was only for 4 games,mind you they did not elaborate on how many games they tested,if it was only 4 or if it was more.It will bear watching however to see how this shakes out.
    It is really to early to be too critical of the PS3,it or any other sophisicated piece of gear needs some shakedown time.As i remember the xbox had a few problems on start up as well.Judge the PS3 after a year and then decide.
    Btw the ps2 will output better than 480p,i was just playing Grand Turismo 4 in 1080i.It is a menu choice.

    bill

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    So if the setting was put to 1080i this would be the best a 1080p tv could display? Is this more based on what the games are made for or what ps2 generally puts out for any games and/or dvd's played on it?

  18. #18
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbelous
    So if the setting was put to 1080i this would be the best a 1080p tv could display? Is this more based on what the games are made for or what ps2 generally puts out for any games and/or dvd's played on it?
    This will only affect older HD sets that have resolution of 480p/1080i. It is for all PS3 titles.
    It will down scale the resolution to 480p vs upscaling to 1080i. It appears to be a hardware issue with the PS3, but a software workaround is being developed.

    If your HD has 720p as an option this issue will not affect your PS3.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Could this downconverting have been intentional, rather than accidental, for CRTs? A resolution of 480p has the advantage of not flickering like 1080i. Do games suffer terribly when shown as interlaced? Remember that a single 1080i frame is comprised of two 540 fields, not a world of difference from one 480 frame. Some processors even scale 1080i based on the 540 field rather than the entire 1080 lines buffered. The typical CRT simply has the unfortunate drawback of not having any progressive option other than 480p. If the point were to make sure that the game displayed progressively, 480p would be the only choice.

  20. #20
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    Could this downconverting have been intentional, rather than accidental, for CRTs? A resolution of 480p has the advantage of not flickering like 1080i. Do games suffer terribly when shown as interlaced? Remember that a single 1080i frame is comprised of two 540 fields, not a world of difference from one 480 frame. Some processors even scale 1080i based on the 540 field rather than the entire 1080 lines buffered. The typical CRT simply has the unfortunate drawback of not having any progressive option other than 480p. If the point were to make sure that the game displayed progressively, 480p would be the only choice.
    Thats great unless you have a Flat Panel display, that now displays in 480p vs 1080i. Not quite what you paid $600 for eh?

  21. #21
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm not advocating 480p rather than 1080i for games on HD CRTs; I'm simply asking those who play the games (I don't) how they look under certain conditions and whether the gain of progressive presentation might be worth the loss of frame information.

    Second, no HD flat panel under the sun has a native resolution of 1080i interlaced; all HD flat panels are ineluctably either 720p, 768p, or 1080p. Hence, a flat panel will take anything that a game console can dish out and spit it back all at once--that is, progressively. CRTs, however, can show only one resolution progressively, 480. Hence, my original question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundbeef
    This will only affect older HD sets that have resolution of 480p/1080i. It is for all PS3 titles.
    It will down scale the resolution to 480p vs upscaling to 1080i. It appears to be a hardware issue with the PS3, but a software workaround is being developed.

    If your HD has 720p as an option this issue will not affect your PS3.

    I went to my local video store,they had 16 ps3 titles in stock and only 9 were 720p the rest were 1080i so they should not be affected.

    bill

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    [QUOte
    Second, no HD flat panel under the sun has a native resolution of 1080i interlaced; all HD flat panels are ineluctably either 720p, 768p, or 1080p. Hence, a flat panel will take anything that a game console can dish out and spit it back all at once--that is, progressively. CRTs, however, can show only one resolution progressively, 480. Hence, my original question.[/QUOTE]

    Strange thing,i have had my Toshiba CRT HD television for about a year and a half,when purchased it was calibrated by an ISF certified tech and i have had not cause to go into the menu.After i read your post i checked the display format menu and the options are 1080i and 540p,not 480p.

    bill

  24. #24
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    I went to my local video store,they had 16 ps3 titles in stock and only 9 were 720p the rest were 1080i so they should not be affected.

    bill
    I think we are missing each other here. If your TV only has the resolution of 480p/1080i it DOESNT matter what the game supports. For whatever reason, the PS3 will downscale the resolution to 480p.

    Thats the problem. It doesn't appear to be a huge problem as most HD TV's now support 480p/720p/1080i and some 1080p.

    This is why its a FLAW. Sony is working on it, but again its a software workaround, as a hardware fix would be impractical.

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