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  1. #1
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    Plasma TV Expected Lifetime

    I've heard the stories that Plasma gasses leak and can result in a TV that only lasts 4 to 10 years. Like most people I love the picture, but don't want to spend that much for such a short lifetime. I did a quick search, but couldn't find what I was looking for so maybe someone here can answer my questions.

    1) What is the expected lifetime on a Plasma TV these days?
    2) Do any Manufacturers offer a way to recharge the plasma?
    2a) If so, how much does that cost.
    3) Which plasmas last the longest?

    Thanks in advance!

    Also if you know anything about Projection TV's, I've heard that LCoS technology is better than DLP, but I can only find high end LCoS TV's on the market.

    1) Does anyone make a cheap LCoS that I can check out.
    2) Are there any shortcomings to LCoS (like life expectancy, pixel loss, etc)?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by dapercy
    I've heard the stories that Plasma gasses leak and can result in a TV that only lasts 4 to 10 years. Like most people I love the picture, but don't want to spend that much for such a short lifetime. I did a quick search, but couldn't find what I was looking for so maybe someone here can answer my questions.

    The simple, direct answer to your question is this ... nobody really knows for sure what to expect. Plasma displays have not been around long enough for any "life expectancy" figures to be accurately established.

    2) Do any Manufacturers offer a way to recharge the plasma?

    No - not that I'm aware of.

    3) Which plasmas last the longest?

    I doubt that there's any significant difference between mfgs.

    Also if you know anything about Projection TV's, I've heard that LCoS technology is better than DLP, but I can only find high end LCoS TV's on the market.

    1) Does anyone make a cheap LCoS that I can check out.


    No.

    2) Are there any shortcomings to LCoS (like life expectancy, pixel loss, etc)?
    LCoS like plasma, hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know for sure.


    Sorry if these answers weren't what you were hoping for -
    woodman

    I plan to live forever ..... so far, so good!
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  3. #3
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    This gas filling of plasma displays sure gets around quick! Plasma displays cannot be recharged.

    Below, is a portion of the Plasma Display FAQ taken from AVSForum.com. It may be helpful for you you take a trip over there and read the their FAQ and then some.

    How long do plasma displays last?

    Note from deeann- This is another very controversial question and you're going to see two wildly differing answers below. I had some hesitation about including this question in the FAQ, but it does come up and should be addressed.

    answer #1:

    There has been much discussion recently about the life expectancy of plasma monitor/TVs. It is an interesting topic with many misconceptions and story variations. The following is what I can advise on the topic:

    Misconception #1: Many retailers seem to be telling consumers that plasma monitors will only last a couple of years which is false as you will see below.

    Misconception #2: The gas plasma inside the plasma TV can be refilled or replaced when it burns out. This is false.

    So how long will a plasma last? The long and short of it is that it depends upon your daily hourly usage as well as how you use the monitor. 12 to 17 years is my short answer.

    Manufacturers figures for longevity are closely guarded but I have added some here for your review:

    Panasonic: States (not publicly) that the monitor is good for 20,000 to 30,000 hours. They also state that these plasma displays measure 50% brightness (phosphor ignition may be a better term) at 50,000 hours.

    Fujitsu: States that the panel lasts 20,000 to 25,000 hours

    Pioneer: States that the 50" PDP 502MX (or 505HD) measures half brightness (phosphor ignition) at 30,000 hours of use. They also state the newer model 503CMX (or Pro 1000HD) with a deeper pixel structure will last even longer though they do not have numbers.

    Sharp: States that plasma panels only last 10,000 to 20,000 hours and that LCD monitors last longer. Figures they would say that.

    For consumer use these numbers should be comforting. They are about equivalent in longevity to CRTs, which typically state 25,000 hours or so life. Let's put these hours in perspective. The average U.S. household watches 4 to 6 hours of television per day. Staggering. Taking a mean time manufacturer stated longevity of 22,500 hours of usage, times our average 5 hours per day we come up with over 12 years of usage. And that is on the low side of estimates. At 4 hours per day and 25,000 hours we are looking at 17 years.

    Now, there are varying degrees of phosphor ignition along the way (the same way a CRT fades). Dissipation begins the moment you turn the set on. After 1000 hours of usage a plasma monitor should measure around 94% brightness, which is barely noticeable to the naked eye. At 15,000 to 20,000 hours the monitor should measure around 68% brightness or to say it differently, 68% of the phosphors are being ignited.

    There are steps you can take to ensure longer and better life from your plasma display panel.

    1) Never leave static images on the unit. Do not pause a picture on the plasma for more than a minute. This will cause phosphor burn in. Watch the unit in full widescreen format as much as possible to avoid differentiation between the side bands of the unit. While this does not actually decrease the longevity of the phosphors it does cause an annoyance to have to play a gray static image to "erase" the burn in.

    2) Use Brightness and Contrast levels that are necessary for viewing - not excessive. In a brightly lit room you may need to use more contrast and brightness, which will decrease the life of the unit. However, there are memory setting adjustments available on most recent plasma monitors that allow the user to choose a memory setting to suit viewing needs. At night, or in a lower light room use lower contrast and brightness levels and extend the life.

    3) Keep the monitor/TV in a well-ventilated area. The unit will not have to work as hard to cool itself.

    4) Turn the unit off when not in use.

    5) Keep the unit out of reach of small children.

    6) Do not mount the unit face down from the ceiling.

    How do the manufacturers know what the figures are since plasma monitors have not been out long? The manufacturer facilities in Japan test them at 100% white image light and measure down from that point with meter readings. It takes hours to find that 50% mark - between 30,000 and 50,000 hours. What a job that would be - to watch the white light. (from the Plasma TV Buying Guide)


    --- cheridave

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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the answers. I'll check out AVSForum.com.

  5. #5
    RGA
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    Frankly I would avoid these things like the plague. Better picture maybe but frankly sit further back and take the front or rear projectors. I still like the theater picture best...call it an analog like tendency of NATURAL image.

    For the money Plasma is a total rippoff with a short life.

  6. #6
    RGA
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    The year estimates seem out of whack with the hour estimates as well. Audio Note has a tube amp that is gauranteed to last 100,000 hours or 11 years on 24 hours a day.

    20 thousand hours is 2 years 24 hours a day. How these manufacturers then claim they'll last 12-17 years? Admittedly you may not watch 24 hours a day but ... - and they don't gaurantee 20,000 hours they estimate it. SO I would expect 10,000 hours.

    5 years and you'll be looking for a new one. Now if the picture is worth that much to you...why not? Most regular sets today probably average 8-10.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Frankly I would avoid these things like the plague. Better picture maybe but frankly sit further back and take the front or rear projectors. I still like the theater picture best...call it an analog like tendency of NATURAL image.

    For the money Plasma is a total rippoff with a short life.
    How's plasma a "total rippoff"? It delivers a true high definition image and works great for rooms with limited space. For large rooms, a front projector is a good option, but not for a typical living room. RPTVs take up a lot of space, and the WAF is very low (I should know -- given the option of a $2k RPTV versus a $5k plasma, my better half already told me no way a big hulking box like that was gonna go into our room, so start saving up). Depending on the size of the cabinet and the distance from the viewing position, RPTVs can also interfere with the correct speaker placement for surround sound.

    Some of us don't have the option of "sitting further back" which is why plasma's gotten so popular. Plasma's currently the most viable option if you want something larger than 42" that can mount flat on a wall. And as stated above, the technology's too new for anyone to know what the real life span of one of those things is. CRTs burn out eventually, so how's plasma any different?

    True, a theater picture is best. But, who among us owns a film projector and has access to theatrical prints?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    The year estimates seem out of whack with the hour estimates as well. Audio Note has a tube amp that is gauranteed to last 100,000 hours or 11 years on 24 hours a day.

    20 thousand hours is 2 years 24 hours a day. How these manufacturers then claim they'll last 12-17 years? Admittedly you may not watch 24 hours a day but ... - and they don't gaurantee 20,000 hours they estimate it. SO I would expect 10,000 hours.

    5 years and you'll be looking for a new one. Now if the picture is worth that much to you...why not? Most regular sets today probably average 8-10.
    Geez, someone who can't even add, and you bought speakers from them?

    Nothing's guaranteed with any consumer product, so all of those service life estimates are just that. The point's already been made that a TV's not on 24/7, so why speculate on a plasma only lasting 5 years? And if the estimated life of a plasma screen is 20k hours, why do you then expect it to last only 10k hours? Do you have any data that shows that plasmas fail within half their allotted lifespan?

  8. #8
    RGA
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    Audio Note's claim is roughly 100,000 hours.

    24 hours * 365 = 8760hours * 11 years = 96, 360 hours not counting leap years - I find nothing truly bad here.

    The TV makers said 20,000-30,000 hours maybe!!

    Taking the low figure simply divide 11 years by 1/5 and you get 2.2 years or 4 years best. If that's worth $5,999.00 + or whatever they're going for these days - great. I'm not convinced by their claimes superior picture as the one I saw (A Sony KE32TS2U) at future shop was rather fatiguing to my eye and not my cup of tea.

    I've seen your living room shot and doesn't seem like you can't have a tv in there since you already do -- if space is that much of hardship pocket the 5k and put it to a new bigger apartment or house. At least these things go UP in value rather than VERY possibly in 2-3 years see 5k needing to be spent AGAIN. Now we're up to 10k. Prices are in Canadian but still.

    I'm not saying there is no advantage...space and HDTV for what it's worth to you are plusses - the cost to get it the reliability - projected even by the manufacturers who will put it in the BEST possible light - after all what do they care once the warranty is over? - is not a stellar package of reasons to buy. In my opinion the cost related to value is atorcious...but each person must determine value for themselves - so if space is supremely important this is a VERY expensive way to conserve it.

    Unfortunately we won't truly know the longevity results for a few years until Consumer reports can gather the stats and project the average lifes like they have done with cd players and other componants. If you need to be first on every gadget that comes out that's fine with me - I personally would rather wait 4 years when these things will be $1399.00 and have a superior system lasting well over 10 years...sort of like buying today's Vastly superior Rear Projection tv for 1/10 to 1/20th the price they were when they first came out and and are FAR more durable to boot. But hey patience is required.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Audio Note's claim is roughly 100,000 hours.

    24 hours * 365 = 8760hours * 11 years = 96, 360 hours not counting leap years - I find nothing truly bad here.
    Just needling you since you're on this Audio Note binge.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Taking the low figure simply divide 11 years by 1/5 and you get 2.2 years or 4 years best. If that's worth $5,999.00 + or whatever they're going for these days - great. I'm not convinced by their claimes superior picture as the one I saw (A Sony KE32TS2U) at future shop was rather fatiguing to my eye and not my cup of tea.
    You're mixing apples and oranges since again, nobody has their TVs turned on 24/7. And the lifespan projected for the plasma screens is simply the point at which the brightness starts to significantly decline. It's not like they'll just suddenly fail. Again, CRT monitors do this as well, so it's nothing new.

    If you're going to do serious viewings of HDTV monitors, you really need to get away from big box places like Future Shop where the customers can muck around with the settings. Typically, the default setting for a TV is brighter and sharper than the reference standard, and places like Future Shop are where customers can easily hit the reset button on the TV and mess up any calibrated settings. You need to go to a specialty shop where the TVs have been calibrated, or at least the sales reps know the reference settings, before you evaluate the picture quality. You also need to consider the source -- is it broadcast? is it a 4:3 playback that's been stretched to fit 16:9? is it true HD resolution? is it a progressive or interlaced source? does the connection use composite, S-video, component, or DVI? Just as places like Future Shop are lousy for auditioning speakers, they are equally bad for auditioning TVs.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I've seen your living room shot and doesn't seem like you can't have a tv in there since you already do -- if space is that much of hardship pocket the 5k and put it to a new bigger apartment or house. At least these things go UP in value rather than VERY possibly in 2-3 years see 5k needing to be spent AGAIN. Now we're up to 10k. Prices are in Canadian but still.
    Uh, have you seen the housing prices in the Bay Area? Not a pretty picture. $5k might get you 1/10th of a down payment in this market. We're already settled in, and don't plan on moving. Hell, the downpayment on an average Bay Area home will almost buy a downtown condo in Montreal!

    I was actually fine with a 42" RPTV since we could afford those, but my wife took one look at the model I had in mind and said no way -- too big, too bulky, too ugly, end of discussion. And the 42" TVs are already the most diminutive big screens available since they don't have the base unit that comes with the larger screens. We currently use a 36" direct view TV, and that is about as big a box as will comfortably fit between the speakers -- a 42" RPTV will barely fit and who knows about any magnetic inference. By going plasma, we can increase the screen size to 55" and not worry about the speakers since it can wall-mount above the speakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I'm not saying there is no advantage...space and HDTV for what it's worth to you are plusses - the cost to get it the reliability - projected even by the manufacturers who will put it in the BEST possible light - after all what do they care once the warranty is over? - is not a stellar package of reasons to buy. In my opinion the cost related to value is atorcious...but each person must determine value for themselves - so if space is supremely important this is a VERY expensive way to conserve it.

    Unfortunately we won't truly know the longevity results for a few years until Consumer reports can gather the stats and project the average lifes like they have done with cd players and other componants. If you need to be first on every gadget that comes out that's fine with me - I personally would rather wait 4 years when these things will be $1399.00 and have a superior system lasting well over 10 years...sort of like buying today's Vastly superior Rear Projection tv for 1/10 to 1/20th the price they were when they first came out and and are FAR more durable to boot. But hey patience is required.
    Well, I wouldn't call it atrocious since the cost ratio is roughly comparable to the difference between CRT and flat panel LCD computer monitors. A 17" CRT will run you roughly $150, while an equivalent LCD will cost about $400. The ratio between a CRT-based RPTV versus a plasma is similar. But, with plasmas dropping and RPTVs staying roughly the same, that gap is closing fast.

    The thing about reliability and the life of the screen is that they don't just suddenly stop working, their performance level just declines to a certain level. CRTs are no different from plasmas in that respect, and their expected life span is similar. Reliability and the screen life and entirely different concepts. Even in a mature market like direct view TVs, you can still get reliability hiccups with certain models.

    Right now, anyone who buys a plasma screen would hardly be the first on the block, and the market has already moved beyond the early adoption phase, so the prices are dropping fast. Plasmas have been around longer than DVD players, so it's not some exotic new technology. Also, the market has shifted to the point that Pioneer is about to start phasing out their very well regarded Elite RPTV lineup, and expand their plasma and LCD offerings.

    I've started saving up to cover the price difference between the plasma and the RPTV. I could've already gotten a RPTV, but the WAF goes to plasma. And all things considered, it could've been a lot worse, she could've just said that the our current non-HD 4:3 TV is good enough and we should just stick with that forever. I don't expect to buy anything until the end of the year, and by then the price gap will likely be a lot narrower than it is right now. And judging by the sales trends, a lot of people have already made the decision that now is the time to buy.

  10. #10
    RGA
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    Well yes I forgot that people live in far more expensive areas than I. I'm not attacking the decision - I hguess I simply don't see the value in them other than space. But I'm not a videophile. I bought Laser disc not for the picture quality but SOLELY because I could watch movies in widescreen. most movies I buy I have seen and I don't remember ever renting an LD(other than to copy to tape) and only 3 DVDs over the last decade. I'm amovie fan but not a videophile. You'd think I would be but frankly I like the 27 inch non flat cheapo JVC just fine...it's no Sony Wega.

    Certainly if this seemingly infinite 5 and a half year education will ever actually end get a teaching job (which is incredibly scarce) which MIGHT pay $38,000.00 a year and I pay off the $45,000.00-$60,000 in student loans LOL, I might be able to get a bigger TV or plasma. Of course by then movies will be all interactive and we'll be argueing about which holo-emitter is best and drinking ractajino's(Sp?)

  11. #11
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    RGA closest to the truth....But ..

    ...old crt technology has best resolution, best reliability and new 30-34"-36" sets have up scan to 780...putting aside hd capability...most people tend to replace an old tv with a bigger one, but the finer detail displayed by an hdtv or upscan model may let you sit closer, so you may not need a bigger screen to get the impression of a larger image.Very few people mention this fact.The best buy may therefore be an under 1,000 tube set for most people with moderate sized rooms...and frankly consider what you buy today an interim purchase.....the old story is that if you dont react to new technology, you will never make a change....however, there is a caveat that requires it truly is better to entice you to buy....plasma is too expensive today and with the uncertainty of format, inputs etal not a certain bet...if it is the winner, it will be 1,300 per RGAs comments.

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