Pioneer, Denon, or Marantz help !!!

[kexodusc]

Wait....you'll buy used from a stranger on Ebay but won't buy a factory refurbished unit from a dealer? Guh?

You're just a pu$$y N Abstentia, Ed's a real gambler...better to buy something old with no warranty and no guarantee of performance and go all-or-nothing on a maybe than to buy dirty refurb.
Live dangerously man. When it works out, that sense of relief you'll get knowing you didn't just blow $300 on a receiver some college guy used to heat his dorm room will provide a greater high than any secure transaction ever could.

[topspeed]

For once I disagree with you a little Topspeed, particularly on features. I'm sure there are plenty of other receivers as good if not better in regards to audio quality then the 3801 but not at a $400 price, albeit used. I did say that if he could get the Denon 3805 for $700 & had enough money to buy a decent DVD player too, he should do that.

He's stated a $1000 budget. He can do a 3805 and 1920 no problemo. Whether he actually should is up to him.

In regards to stuff like auto eq & SPL settings etc., I'm not saying they might not be useful but for my ears, this stuff is totally useless, particularly SPL which sets DB levels, as they don't & can't account for ones ears (tastes, biasness & deficiencies).

Well...YEAH ! How the hell is anybody supposed to account for the small percentage of the population that has significantly different hearing from one ear to the other?!? A SPL meter assures that the listener is receiving the exact same sound levels from every speaker at the listening position. It does not account for the fact that you, or anyone else for that matter, are partially deaf. If I were a gambling man, I'd play the odds and bet the OP can hear equally out of both ears.

Don't know what DPL2 is so I can't comment there and I use my Denon just for audio features not video & I have a feeling DPL is video related

DPL2 is a much better processing algorithm that separates native 2 channel audio into a pseudo 5.1 surround matrix. It is far superior IME to DPL and has nothing to do with video whatsoever. Now you know .

Anyway, if you can give this guy any other alternative receivers that he can get for $400 that are better then the Denon 3801 receiver in terms of actual sound quality not features, either used or new, I'm sure he'll appreciate it. I can't think of any.

Sound quality is subjective so in answer to your question, no, I can't think of any that will sound better to him. He'll have to figure that out. Although I must say that on DAC's alone, he should be able to readily hear the difference. Still, tastes vary.

Look, I'm not trashing your 3801. As long as you're happy with it, that's all that matters. Just understand that progress has improved the breed and suggesting a 5 year old AVR when the OP who can afford a current model is like suggesting a 8 year old Accord when the buyer can afford the new one. There's nothing wrong with the previous gen, it's just that the new one is faster, roomier, more fuel efficient, and comes with a warranty.

[EdwardGein]

I just read the reviews on the Denon 1920 for the most part they seem superlative, so if you can get both the Denon 3805 Receiver & the Denon 1920 DVD Player, for $1,000, I'd go for that. I still don't agree with your assessment whatsoever on SPL readings. I'm not deaf and I'm sure that you and most people, even if you aren't aware of it, if you were tested by an ear doctor, would in all likelyhood hear more out of one ear then another. As such the SPL results probably won't give you the proper balance for your ears without you fine tuning them to fit your actual hearing.

[GMichael]

I just read the reviews on the Denon 1920 for the most part they seem superlative, so if you can get both the Denon 3805 Receiver & the Denon 1920 DVD Player, for $1,000, I'd go for that. I still don't agree with your assessment whatsoever on SPL readings. I'm not deaf and I'm sure that you and most people, even if you aren't aware of it, if you were tested by an ear doctor, would in all likelyhood hear more out of one ear then another. As such the SPL results probably won't give you the proper balance for your ears without you fine tuning them to fit your actual hearing.

This may be true. But I still like how the auto systems set the EQ for every speaker. You can always go back and tweek them as I have later.
If you like your system (yes, I know you do) then there's not a thing wrong with saying so. Maybe the OP would like to split the $1k up between receiver & other. I wouldn't, but I respect your right to dissagree.

[kexodusc]

I just read the reviews on the Denon 1920 for the most part they seem superlative, so if you can get both the Denon 3805 Receiver & the Denon 1920 DVD Player, for $1,000, I'd go for that. I still don't agree with your assessment whatsoever on SPL readings. I'm not deaf and I'm sure that you and most people, even if you aren't aware of it, if you were tested by an ear doctor, would in all likelyhood hear more out of one ear then another. As such the SPL results probably won't give you the proper balance for your ears without you fine tuning them to fit your actual hearing.

That's a good point. However, most people's hearing is still pretty balanced...after all, what one ear hears the other one usually does as well. Your brain actually compensates for the minute differences, kind of like focusing...equilibrium and all. Most people have a hard time telling 2 or 3 dB differences..some are really good and can get close to 1 dB. Unless you're hearing is way off from one ear to the next, a properly calibrated system is still the way to go. Besides, you'd notice your imaging all messed up, if your ears weren't balanced but your SPL meter said you were.

[EdwardGein]

Wait....you'll buy used from a stranger on Ebay but won't buy a factory refurbished unit from a dealer? Guh?

In the case of the stranger being someone who has sold 25 or more items on Ebay with excellent feedback, yeah, sure, I don't consider it a gamble because these sellers descriptions are very accurate. It's a whole different ball game if you're talking about someone selling with mediocore feedback and little feedback history.

In the case of Refurbished, in all likelyhood you're talking about items that didn't work right in the first place, that have been supposidly fixed which in my mind means they'll work now but could have the same problem a week from now. I think there is a big difference in buying something that is in very good to excellent condition & has never been broken based on a reliable sellers description then buying something refurbished from any kind of seller.

Again, I probably would not spend over $450 anyway on something used but if I can get a $400 used receiver in very good condition that retailed for over $1,000 from a reliable seller, I think the odds are very much in my favor.

[kexodusc]

In the case of the stranger being someone who has sold 25 or more items on Ebay with excellent feedback, yeah, sure, I don't consider it a gamble because these sellers descriptions are very accurate. It's a whole different ball game if you're talking about someone selling with mediocore feedback and little feedback history.

In the case of Refurbished, in all likelyhood you're talking about items that didn't work right in the first place, that have been supposidly fixed which in my mind means they'll work now but could have the same problem a week from now. I think there is a big difference in buying something that based on the listing as I said from a totally reliable seller that has never been broken and is in very good to excellent condition.

Actually, most refurb units are open box items that don't have defects, either overstock, demo units, returns or whatever. Lots of units go back just because people can't figure them out, incorrectly think there's a problem, or for really minor issues. Most refurbs come with warranty about 1 year. That's plenty long enough statistically. Pretty safe bet for the most part. You get the odd problem child though. Chances are if a unit makes the refurb list because of a defect, there's just as much probability of getting that same defect occuring in the used model.

[EdwardGein]

Actually, most refurb units are open box items that don't have defects, either overstock, demo units, returns or whatever. Lots of units go back just because people can't figure them out, incorrectly think there's a problem, or for really minor issues. Most refurbs come with warranty about 1 year. That's plenty long enough statistically. Pretty safe bet for the most part. You get the odd problem child though. Chances are if a unit makes the refurb list because of a defect, there's just as much probability of getting that same defect occuring in the used model.

You might be right but my gut feeling is not to get anything refurbished even with a warranty as I psychologically feel that something is wrong with it & even with a warranty it is going to be a hassle with my time etc. if it breaks down. At least a significant % of these items must have had problems in the first place & my attitude is not take a chance. The few times product that I owned & bought new broke down & I got fixed, these same items broke down again within a year.

[orgasmdonor]

Hello Gentlemen...I may be able to type better sober. I guess I'm kind of leaning toward a refurb. form an authorized Denon dealer. I would like to own a Denon. But like I said before ...there seems like there are a lot of Denon refurbs in circulation. I do not want to pay full price or close to it. Ed you make some great points. Actually everyone is making some fantastic points. What is this wattage rating stuff...If a receiver is rated at 100 watts it may only actually be 50 or 60..Is that true? I guess how would a guy know for sure if his unit is actually capable of what the maker says. I guess the bottom line question I have for you all is ...Will a Denon avr2106 or3805 or 3806 have way better sound quality than my 100w per channel sony str-de595. I am about 80% music and 20% movies. Waht do you all think of me getting the denon avr 2106 from ecost.com for $383 refurbed with a 90 day warranty? They are a genuine factory authorized dealer listed on Denon's website. The avr 2106 has just about all the bells and whistles.....auto room mic. setup..learning remote...Doesnt have thx. Tell me what you think please?

[EdwardGein]

Do what your gut instinct tells you to do. I personally think your insane if you get any Denon below the 2800 series & buying something refurbished with a 90 day warranty is self defeating, like playing a football game not to lose, going out with a hot chick & not scoring because you don't want to ner to think you want her for her body, etc. What is the best that is going to come out of buying something refurbished with a 90 day guarantee? If it breaks on day 50 you'll be able to get it fixed for free and start this same self defeating cycle again. I think your odds of a better receiver bought from a reliable seller on Ebay that's listed in very good condition playing without a problem for 90 days is alot better then the refurbished item conking out in 90 days. The bottom line is, if you're going to go for it, go for it. He who hesitates is lost. Denons wattage is as true as you're going to find on what a receiver lists. But no matter what receiver you buy, if your still using a mediocore DVD player, it ain't going to make that much difference.

[topspeed]

But like I said before ...there seems like there are a lot of Denon refurbs in circulation.

That's because there are a lot of Denon's in circulation! Remember, a refurb or B stock can also be a unit that was returned, a demo, whatever.

What is this wattage rating stuff...If a receiver is rated at 100 watts it may only actually be 50 or 60..Is that true? I guess how would a guy know for sure if his unit is actually capable of what the maker says.

Unfortunately, there is no standardized method for rating amps. Therefore, ratings are all over the map. My favorite is when they take all of the channels and add them together (i.e. 9channels @ 100wpc = 900 watt receiver. Yeah, right. ) Most of the reputable manufacturers, such as the one's you're considering are pretty honorable about the whole thing, but they aren't stupid and know very well that the market puts an emphasis on watts. Again, I wouldn't worry about it with your Athena's.

I guess the bottom line question I have for you all is ...Will a Denon avr2106 or3805 or 3806 have way better sound quality than my 100w per channel sony str-de595.

Very likely. Sony's aren't known for their sound quality and honestly, I've never heard a Sony avr that I've liked.

What do you all think of me getting the denon avr 2106 from ecost.com for $383 refurbed with a 90 day warranty? They are a genuine factory authorized dealer listed on Denon's website. The avr 2106 has just about all the bells and whistles.....auto room mic. setup..learning remote...Doesnt have thx. Tell me what you think please?

Sure, why not? I'm not sure what the difference between the 2806 and 2106 is, but I bought my Dad a 2806 from ecost for Christmas with an extended warranty (it was around $40).

[kexodusc]

What is this wattage rating stuff...If a receiver is rated at 100 watts it may only actually be 50 or 60..Is that true? I guess how would a guy know for sure if his unit is actually capable of what the maker says.

Actually, 99.9% of the time in actual, practical, real world use, a receiver will deliver the wattage its specs claim. The times it won't are almost always reserved for very unrealistic conditions that almost never occur in typical playback conditions. Watts sell though, so it pays to read the fine print in the ratings to make sure you know what you're getting.

I guess the bottom line question I have for you all is ...Will a Denon avr2106 or3805 or 3806 have way better sound quality than my 100w per channel sony str-de595. I am about 80% music and 20% movies.

The Denon will make the Sony sound like it's broken. Though to be fair, I have heard a few Sony's I like. My parents have an old Dolby Digital avr from 1999 that refuses to die. Doesn't sound too bad either.

Waht do you all think of me getting the denon avr 2106 from ecost.com for $383 refurbed with a 90 day warranty? They are a genuine factory authorized dealer listed on Denon's website. The avr 2106 has just about all the bells and whistles.....auto room mic. setup..learning remote...Doesnt have thx. Tell me what you think please?

Sounds ok. Can you buy an extended warranty? Dakmart is selling the 2106 for about $450 with 1 year warranty. They're great to deal with if anything goes wrong. Try phoning them, they might quote you a lower price over the phone than advertised online (they did for me when I bought a Denon for a friend last year, most online stores I've dealt with seem to do that for some reason).

How about buying a brand new Pioneer VSX-1015tx receiver from jandr.com with warranty for $399. It's a better receiver IMO...I did a little review on it a few weeks back:
Comparison - Pioneer VSX-1015TX vs Yamaha RX-V1400

It's got auto-setup, THX certification, tons, TONS, of real honest power, great sound, and can be bought authorized for $399 if you phone JandR.com. For the extra $17, this is a no brainer in my opinion. This Pioneer model is a slightly stripped down version of the Pioneer Elite VSX-52tx - same chassis, power supply, etc... I'm guessing 95% the same components or more throughout. Good quality. IMO a better value and performer than a refurbed 2106.

[accastil]

if you are into "headbanging" music, drop the denon. have a pick on pioneer, marantz, HK..better yet, buy a cheaper HK and go for a separate stereo power amp...you may try pairing rotel of >100W with HK335 and feel the punch.