• 06-10-2011, 07:30 PM
    Jim Clark
    Oppo and True Grit 2010 playback. Anyone else having problems?
    My BDP-83 won't play this disc for anything. It just freezes up before it has the chance to do anything at all. I have to manually turn it off and restart it just to remove the disc. I have updated the firmware, disc is clean. Don't know what else to do. Oh, and BB was out of bluray so this is a dvd which makes it even weirder.

    Oddly enough it does play in the much older Oppo 971H. I've emailed Oppo support but I figured I'd check in here while I was in the neighborhood.

    Regards,
    jc
  • 06-11-2011, 01:41 PM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post
    My BDP-83 won't play this disc for anything. It just freezes up before it has the chance to do anything at all. I have to manually turn it off and restart it just to remove the disc. I have updated the firmware, disc is clean. Don't know what else to do. Oh, and BB was out of bluray so this is a dvd which makes it even weirder.

    Oddly enough it does play in the much older Oppo 971H. I've emailed Oppo support but I figured I'd check in here while I was in the neighborhood.

    Regards,
    jc

    Go over to AVS Forums and find the Official OPPO 83 or 93 thread and I bet you will find something.
  • 06-11-2011, 03:34 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I can't help out on this one, I stopped buying DVD's years ago.
  • 06-11-2011, 08:13 PM
    Jim Clark
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    I can't help out on this one, I stopped buying DVD's years ago.

    Me too, this is a rental and BB was out of Blurays by 1:00 PM Friday : ( I wanted a movie and there wasn't anything else I wanted to see.

    This is the reply I received from Oppo: "If you are playing back the DVD-Video of this title then this is a known error. The current cure is to purchase or rent the Blu-ray version of True Grit. We are working with our engineers to resolve this error through a future firmware release.



    Best Regards,

    Customer Service
    OPPO Digital, Inc."

    At the very least, I did receive a reply within 24 hours which is appreciably better than any other company I can imagine dealing with.

    jc
  • 06-12-2011, 03:12 PM
    pixelthis
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post
    Me too, this is a rental and BB was out of Blurays by 1:00 PM Friday : ( I wanted a movie and there wasn't anything else I wanted to see.

    This is the reply I received from Oppo: "If you are playing back the DVD-Video of this title then this is a known error. The current cure is to purchase or rent the Blu-ray version of True Grit. We are working with our engineers to resolve this error through a future firmware release.



    Best Regards,

    Customer Service
    OPPO Digital, Inc."

    At the very least, I did receive a reply within 24 hours which is appreciably better than any other company I can imagine dealing with.

    jc

    very odd, with the lower bitrate of a DVD there should be no problem.
    BUT THIS IS a blessing in disguise, the BLU version of this feature
    is already achieving legend(wait for it) dary status.
    I watched it last night( thanks redbox) and it was quite spectacular,
    so missing out on the DVD saves you for the BLU, which is
    certainly worth the wait.:1:
  • 06-13-2011, 03:44 AM
    Worf101
    Well...
    One good thing about Oppo if there's a problem with a particular disk you'll usually find a work around on their website or failing that, they'll tell you that they're aware of the problem and working on it. That's one of the things I like about them.

    Worf
  • 06-13-2011, 06:59 AM
    bfalls
    The "True Grit" DVD has a new version of Macrovision copy-protection. As with all copy-protections, to stay ahead of the rippers they have to try new and different methods to keep the protection unbroken for the longest time possible. Many protections skirt the edge of the DVD standard to do it. At times many players fall victim to the protection scheme used. Usually these are lesser players because of their inferior firmware programming.

    I'm absolutely not saying the Oppo is a lesser player. Actually I saw this looking up information on the Oppo to purchase. I know it's an excellent player. Since the remedy is to purchase the BD, this only helps to support the protection issue. I imagine if you would go to ripping websites like Doom9, or Digitalbits there would be a lot of talk about difficulty ripping it. If the Oppo is having problems, I'm willing to bet other players have trouble as well.

    For every title we protect at Sony, it's tested on over 115 different models of players determined by their market share for popularity. A title is not released until it can be played on all players.

    When new versions are developed, we perform testing at Sony in Japan, Austria and the US. We then have testing performed using four independent outside testing labs before the version is released for use. I'm almost willing to bet money this is the problem.

    In cases like this the player manufacturer is contacted about updating their firmware. Depending on the company, this happens immediately. However with most it's not soon enough, or doesn't happen at all. If it's something Oppo can fix, I'm sure they will. As long as it doesn't compromise it's overall performance.
  • 06-13-2011, 01:37 PM
    pixelthis
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    The "True Grit" DVD has a new version of Macrovision copy-protection. As with all copy-protections, to stay ahead of the rippers they have to try new and different methods to keep the protection unbroken for the longest time possible. Many protections skirt the edge of the DVD standard to do it. At times many players fall victim to the protection scheme used. Usually these are lesser players because of their inferior firmware programming.

    I'm absolutely not saying the Oppo is a lesser player. Actually I saw this looking up information on the Oppo to purchase. I know it's an excellent player. Since the remedy is to purchase the BD, this only helps to support the protection issue. I imagine if you would go to ripping websites like Doom9, or Digitalbits there would be a lot of talk about difficulty ripping it. If the Oppo is having problems, I'm willing to bet other players have trouble as well.

    For every title we protect at Sony, it's tested on over 115 different models of players determined by their market share for popularity. A title is not released until it can be played on all players.

    When new versions are developed, we perform testing at Sony in Japan, Austria and the US. We then have testing performed using four independent outside testing labs before the version is released for use. I'm almost willing to bet money this is the problem.

    In cases like this the player manufacturer is contacted about updating their firmware. Depending on the company, this happens immediately. However with most it's not soon enough, or doesn't happen at all. If it's something Oppo can fix, I'm sure they will. As long as it doesn't compromise it's overall performance.

    ANOTHER case of corporate paranoia inconveniencing the
    public.
    I BELIEVE in the right of software owners to protect their
    product, but really, aren't you shooting yourself in the foot by
    selling a disc that wont play on even the newest players?
    HASN'T Sony paid enough of a PR price with their ridiculous
    protection schemes, like a rootkit that destroys hard drives, for instance.
    KEEP up the effort, I am sure you will totally destroy SONYS
    rep sooner or later(what little bit of it is left).:1:
  • 06-14-2011, 04:49 AM
    bfalls
    Duh Pix! Did you happen to miss the part where I said it was Macrovision's new copy-protection on the DVD, not Sony's. Or the part where I explain what steps we go through to ensure player compatibility. Or did you read it at all. Also the "root kit" you speak of was done by a company which Sony acquired and not Sony directly.

    Sir T is right, you don't know what the %$@* you're talking about. I'm not sure anymore if it's pure ignorance, or you just can't read. Either way...
  • 06-14-2011, 05:25 AM
    Jim Clark
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    The "True Grit" DVD has a new version of Macrovision copy-protection. As with all copy-protections, to stay ahead of the rippers they have to try new and different methods to keep the protection unbroken for the longest time possible.

    Well, all I'm gonna say is that copies play with zero issues. Don't really need to check out the bluray at this point. I've seen the movie now and it's no True Grit. I like all the players just fine but they are not John Wayne and Glen Campbell. Just my personal opinion.

    jc
  • 06-14-2011, 06:17 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post
    Well, all I'm gonna say is that copies play with zero issues. Don't really need to check out the bluray at this point. I've seen the movie now and it's no True Grit. I like all the players just fine but they are not John Wayne and Glen Campbell. Just my personal opinion.

    jc

    LOL, didn't want to say anything but I watched it the night you posted this from an AVI file.

    I liked the movie and loved the part the girl played, very convincing. But, never the same as the classic.
  • 06-14-2011, 07:16 AM
    bfalls
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post
    Well, all I'm gonna say is that copies play with zero issues. Don't really need to check out the bluray at this point. I've seen the movie now and it's no True Grit. I like all the players just fine but they are not John Wayne and Glen Campbell. Just my personal opinion.

    jc

    Agreed. I watched the Blu-ray last weekend. It was OK, but the classic version was much better. Bridges is good, but no comparison to the Duke.

    I'm not surprised there are copies and the copies play. The titles are usually safe from ripping for about 3 weeks after street date before the rippers find the formula and propagate it to ripping and torrent websites.

    What you usually find are compromised copies which may not include all the menus, features or audio streams.
  • 06-14-2011, 02:01 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    Duh Pix! Did you happen to miss the part where I said it was Macrovision's new copy-protection on the DVD, not Sony's. Or the part where I explain what steps we go through to ensure player compatibility. Or did you read it at all. Also the "root kit" you speak of was done by a company which Sony acquired and not Sony directly.

    Sir T is right, you don't know what the %$@* you're talking about. I'm not sure anymore if it's pure ignorance, or you just can't read. Either way...

    SO WHY USE MARCOVISION?
    And retrace your "steps", obviously you are missing something if
    you have to advise on firmware updates.
    AND THE ROOTKIT was done on Sonys watch, AS WERE
    the fake reviews in the paper. FOR SHAME.:1:
  • 06-14-2011, 02:02 PM
    pixelthis
    and has anybody noted just how plain jane DVD's are these days?
    SIMPLE MENUS, NO SPECIAL FEATURES(not that I MISS THEM).
    A commodity item, basically.:1:
  • 06-15-2011, 06:18 AM
    bfalls
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    SO WHY USE MARCOVISION?
    And retrace your "steps", obviously you are missing something if
    you have to advise on firmware updates.
    AND THE ROOTKIT was done on Sonys watch, AS WERE
    the fake reviews in the paper. FOR SHAME.:1:

    I guess you'll need to get an education somewhere, so here it is. Macrovision is a company who provides copy-protection for recorded materials. Ripguard is their DVD protection. They provide protection for companies such as Disney and Paramount (True Grit).

    SonyDADC DigitalWorks also provides copy-protection for recorded media. Our products are SecuROM for CD_ROM (games), ARccOS, recently re-branded Screen Pass, for DVD and just recently Screen Pass for Blu-ray. Our customers are SPHE, Lion's Gate, Summit, Product Partners (makers of the Beachbody exercise videos P90x, Insanity and others) .

    So no, we don't use Macrovision, but as I stated, Paramount did use their newest version on "True Grit", thus playability issues.

    There are many reasons for updating a players firmware. Just like any other software program there are different ways to achieve the same results. Some better than others. The development and execution of firmware for a $29 Coby portable player, will not be the same as for the Oppo, there's always room for changes and improvement. If/as bugs are found, firmware is updated with the changes/improvements.

    I got my information about the root kit from one of our development engineers who dealt with the aftermath, so I'll trust his word (and pretty much anyone else) over yours any day. Although not implemented by Sony, Sony did purchase the company's assets and liabilities, so how it was dealt with may fall on Sony, but not the intent. I don't feel shame for myself or the company I work for.

    I hope this helps you understand. Your ignorance may be bliss for you, but it's starting to be very annoying for the rest of us.
  • 06-15-2011, 12:08 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    The "True Grit" DVD has a new version of Macrovision copy-protection. As with all copy-protections, to stay ahead of the rippers they have to try new and different methods to keep the protection unbroken for the longest time possible. Many protections skirt the edge of the DVD standard to do it. At times many players fall victim to the protection scheme used. Usually these are lesser players because of their inferior firmware programming.

    This just seems strange to me that they're still tweaking with the Macrovision copy protection. I thought Macrovision primarily dealt with analog video copying by distorting the image when the player was plugged into a capture device or VCR.

    I guess once the CSS copy protection got circumvented, anything new would be pushing the compatibility envelope on DVD players.

    Surprising that this would affect Oppo players, given that they typically do very well on compatibility issues and are very responsive to any firmware issues. I guess they're more focused on Blu-ray than whatever might be going on with the DVD side.
  • 06-15-2011, 01:27 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    I guess you'll need to get an education somewhere, so here it is. Macrovision is a company who provides copy-protection for recorded materials. Ripguard is their DVD protection. They provide protection for companies such as Disney and Paramount (True Grit).

    SonyDADC DigitalWorks also provides copy-protection for recorded media. Our products are SecuROM for CD_ROM (games), ARccOS, recently re-branded Screen Pass, for DVD and just recently Screen Pass for Blu-ray. Our customers are SPHE, Lion's Gate, Summit, Product Partners (makers of the Beachbody exercise videos P90x, Insanity and others) .

    So no, we don't use Macrovision, but as I stated, Paramount did use their newest version on "True Grit", thus playability issues.

    There are many reasons for updating a players firmware. Just like any other software program there are different ways to achieve the same results. Some better than others. The development and execution of firmware for a $29 Coby portable player, will not be the same as for the Oppo, there's always room for changes and improvement. If/as bugs are found, firmware is updated with the changes/improvements.

    I got my information about the root kit from one of our development engineers who dealt with the aftermath, so I'll trust his word (and pretty much anyone else) over yours any day. Although not implemented by Sony, Sony did purchase the company's assets and liabilities, so how it was dealt with may fall on Sony, but not the intent. I don't feel shame for myself or the company I work for.

    I hope this helps you understand. Your ignorance may be bliss for you, but it's starting to be very annoying for the rest of us.

    SO YOU DID USE it on true grit, which is what YOU said, and now you still claim you said it, but then you say you don't use it!
    You call me "ignorant" and you contradict yourself with every other word.
    As for the rootkit, I DIDNT SUFFER but knew a lot who did,
    and you and other SONY SHILLS can claim it was a bad engine
    in a recently purchased car, whatever lets you sleep at night.
    BELIEVE the cover story your co-workers came up with,
    nobody else does NOBODY is that "ignorant".:1:
  • 06-15-2011, 03:08 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    SO YOU DID USE it on true grit, which is what YOU said, and now you still claim you said it, but then you say you don't use it!
    You call me "ignorant" and you contradict yourself with every other word.
    As for the rootkit, I DIDNT SUFFER but knew a lot who did,
    and you and other SONY SHILLS can claim it was a bad engine
    in a recently purchased car, whatever lets you sleep at night.
    BELIEVE the cover story your co-workers came up with,
    nobody else does NOBODY is that "ignorant".:1:

    Pixelstupid,
    You cannot read. True Grit is a Paramount production, not a Sony production. Sony just did the disc stamping for Paramount, it was Paramount's request to use the new version of Microvision.

    You are detail stupid, and it is just freakin annoying.
  • 06-15-2011, 04:55 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Pixelstupid,
    You cannot read. True Grit is a Paramount production, not a Sony production. Sony just did the disc stamping for Paramount, it was Paramount's request to use the new version of Microvision.

    You are detail stupid, and it is just freakin annoying.

    It's like his posts are mad libs that he reposts over and over, no matter what the topic is.
  • 06-15-2011, 05:21 PM
    Tarheel_
    Just watched this movie last night and boy, it is a center channel torture test. I mean, this movie will expose your center for what it truly is...with all the mumbling, you best have spent money on that center!

    Side note...good movie, doesn't break new ground ,but an enjoyable flick.
  • 06-16-2011, 10:37 AM
    bfalls
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    This just seems strange to me that they're still tweaking with the Macrovision copy protection. I thought Macrovision primarily dealt with analog video copying by distorting the image when the player was plugged into a capture device or VCR.

    I guess once the CSS copy protection got circumvented, anything new would be pushing the compatibility envelope on DVD players.

    Surprising that this would affect Oppo players, given that they typically do very well on compatibility issues and are very responsive to any firmware issues. I guess they're more focused on Blu-ray than whatever might be going on with the DVD side.

    Hi Woof,
    Macrovision is the analog copy-protection and also the name of the company. As stated earlier, Ripguard is Macrovision's DVD protection.

    Yes, Oppo probably does respond to firmware issues in a timely manner, as does many of the other larger player manufacturers. Probably one of the reasons the Oppo 93 player is rated #1. They sure didn't know there was an issue until Ripguard came out with a new version which revealed it. It's very common practice in the industry. I'm sure Oppo will have a fix soon, or it could be Macrovision's issue. I'm sure they'll solve the problem.
  • 06-16-2011, 10:39 AM
    bfalls
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    Hi Woof,
    Macrovision is the analog copy-protection and also the name of the company. As stated earlier, Ripguard is Macrovision's DVD protection.

    Yes, Oppo probably does respond to firmware issues in a timely manner, as does many of the other larger player manufacturers. Probably one of the reasons the Oppo 93 player is rated #1. They sure didn't know there was an issue until Ripguard came out with a new version which revealed it. It's very common practice in the industry. I'm sure Oppo will have a fix soon, or it could be Macrovision's issue. I'm sure they'll solve the problem.

    "They sure didn't know there was an issue until Ripguard came out with a new version which revealed it."

    This is supposed to read I'm sure they didn't know there was an issue
  • 06-16-2011, 02:50 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    Hi Woof,
    Macrovision is the analog copy-protection and also the name of the company. As stated earlier, Ripguard is Macrovision's DVD protection.

    Yes, Oppo probably does respond to firmware issues in a timely manner, as does many of the other larger player manufacturers. Probably one of the reasons the Oppo 93 player is rated #1. They sure didn't know there was an issue until Ripguard came out with a new version which revealed it. It's very common practice in the industry. I'm sure Oppo will have a fix soon, or it could be Macrovision's issue. I'm sure they'll solve the problem.

    Thanx, I guess that's why it was confusing to me, because I associate the Macrovision name with that copy protection format. It's just interesting that they're still trying to tweak with the copy protection on DVDs long after the CSS encryption got broken.
  • 06-17-2011, 05:25 AM
    bfalls
    DVD copy-protection has become much more sophisticated than during the days of CSS. Everyone has their different twist on how it should be done. We get creative, the rippers break it. It's a continuous battle. If we're able to protect a big title for four weeks after it streets, the protection is a success. Even after it's broken, many times the process is so complex, only the real gear-heads are able to do it. As long as we stop the one-button simple to copy applications we've done our job.
  • 06-17-2011, 11:02 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls View Post
    DVD copy-protection has become much more sophisticated than during the days of CSS. Everyone has their different twist on how it should be done. We get creative, the rippers break it. It's a continuous battle. If we're able to protect a big title for four weeks after it streets, the protection is a success. Even after it's broken, many times the process is so complex, only the real gear-heads are able to do it. As long as we stop the one-button simple to copy applications we've done our job.

    Good to know. I had no idea that so much work is still being done to prevent DVDs from getting ripped. As you mentioned, since these new copy protection approaches skirt the edges of the DVD format specs, now I'm surprised that these incompatibilities don't crop up more often.

    In the early days of the DVD format, it seemed that most of these incompatibilities came from poorly authored discs, new features (I recall DTS and dual-layered discs causing problems with a lot of players) and firmware issues. Nowadays, I never hear about these issues anymore, but obviously stuff like this still happens.