The Official "Help Kex buy his folks a new HDTV" thread

[kexodusc]

Dammit, ma and pa Kex are moving here to Canada to be close to their favorite (read: only) daughter-in-law...We have no plans for kids in the near future, but my mom's not helping the cause chatting with my wife about it every freakin' day...

Their new house is being built just 10 miles away from me, and we designed a sweet, elongated hexagon shaped room for their home theater needs. It'll be nice to be able to spend time with alot of my gear they've received in recent years. But one problem, their old 32" TV ain't gonna cut it when I visit Sundays during football season.

So, as a housewarming gift, I'd like to get them a new TV. Except it's been 2 years since my wife bougth me mine and I don't know much about current HDTV sets really - mines a RPTV, which quite honestly, I believe delivers a better picture than a lot of these more expensive, newer technologies, but that's another thread.

Sooo...I'm thinking 50"+ nothing too fancy, but the picture's gotta look decent and it'll need at least 1080i. I'd get them my 52" CRT if it was still made, but that's not an option. FYI, 1080p doesn't matter to them - they'll have a projector soon enough anyway. I'm sorta leaning towards rear projection LCD/DLP (I'm cheap), but if someone can talk me out it for good reason I'll spend more.

What's the consensus out there? DLP, LCD, Plasma? What the heck is LCD projection anyway? There will be 4 reclining home theater style chairs, about 8 - 10 feet away from the set, not off axis very much at all. I think 50-52" corresponds well with the viewing distance and room size.

So, anyone got any suggestions?

[tahitijack]

If your on a budget and the 1080p is not a priority I would go with a 50" plasma. Almost all the major brands now offer one at or below $2K. If you can push your budget close to or just over $3K you'll find several 52" 1080p LCD flat screens, with amazing picture quality. I'm not a fan of rear projection, others may disagree but I don't see a quality picture, viewing angel is still too narrow and its still not as thin as a flat screen. From your message I think your plan is to start up the home theater with your gift and later replace it with a projection system. If thats the case have a look around their home to see where your gift will ultimately reside. It would be a shame if you choose a 52" screen and it turns out to be too larger for the room it will eventually find its final resting place.

[brulaha]

Being an owner of a Hitachi CRT rear projection and a Panny plasma, i can honestly say (imho) the plasma delivers a much better picture, especially over a conventional signal. I wouldn't have thought this to be the case prior to the plasma purchase, but it has won me over. I would second a plasma purchase, plus they look cool.

[kexodusc]

If your on a budget and the 1080p is not a priority I would go with a 50" plasma. Almost all the major brands now offer one at or below $2K. If you can push your budget close to or just over $3K you'll find several 52" 1080p LCD flat screens, with amazing picture quality. I'm not a fan of rear projection, others may disagree but I don't see a quality picture, viewing angel is still too narrow and its still not as thin as a flat screen. From your message I think your plan is to start up the home theater with your gift and later replace it with a projection system. If thats the case have a look around their home to see where your gift will ultimately reside. It would be a shame if you choose a 52" screen and it turns out to be too larger for the room it will eventually find its final resting place.

1080p isn't a priority because they definitely won't be using it for quite some time, and I doubt they'd notice significant improvement over 1080i, at 8 feet distance on that size set...by the time they get HD-DVD or BluRay, the projector will be installed..

The rest of the HT is taken care of, but they've upgraded room size significantly so we can fit a larger set in there - 50 -52" is nice. The size of the set is not a factor. The TV will always get use, for regular broadcasts, etc, even when the projector is purchased.

Thanks for your recommendations - I'm not a fan of plasma in terms of quality picture, but I do like them more at that size than LCD. I'm told there's a lot of disagreement out there over that though. This is mostly going to serve as a regular HDTV broadcast watchin' set. Football, and the movie networks type thing, with some A&E, Discovery, and CNN as well. And a lot of DVD's for the next little while.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Dammit, ma and pa Kex are moving here to Canada to be close to their favorite (read: only) daughter-in-law...We have no plans for kids in the near future, but my mom's not helping the cause chatting with my wife about it every freakin' day...

Their new house is being built just 10 miles away from me, and we designed a sweet, elongated hexagon shaped room for their home theater needs. It'll be nice to be able to spend time with alot of my gear they've received in recent years. But one problem, their old 32" TV ain't gonna cut it when I visit Sundays during football season.

So, as a housewarming gift, I'd like to get them a new TV. Except it's been 2 years since my wife bougth me mine and I don't know much about current HDTV sets really - mines a RPTV, which quite honestly, I believe delivers a better picture than a lot of these more expensive, newer technologies, but that's another thread.

Sooo...I'm thinking 50"+ nothing too fancy, but the picture's gotta look decent and it'll need at least 1080i. I'd get them my 52" CRT if it was still made, but that's not an option. FYI, 1080p doesn't matter to them - they'll have a projector soon enough anyway. I'm sorta leaning towards rear projection LCD/DLP (I'm cheap), but if someone can talk me out it for good reason I'll spend more.

What's the consensus out there? DLP, LCD, Plasma? What the heck is LCD projection anyway? There will be 4 reclining home theater style chairs, about 8 - 10 feet away from the set, not off axis very much at all. I think 50-52" corresponds well with the viewing distance and room size.

So, anyone got any suggestions?

Oh no! Here we go! It's gonna get ugly!
Quick! Get Kex settled before pixelthis sees this topic!!!

[recoveryone]

lol Rich, Hey Kex have you thought of going with a projector set up since this will be a dedicated HT room? I just saw your remark on LCD projectors, I haven't ran into one yet myself, but a projector that can handle 1080i with DLP technology should give you what your looking for and the cost would be around 1k for the projector and you can spend the rest on a new HD DVD player for them or something.

[GMichael]

I think that a projector is in his future plans, but wants something to hold him over till it's a done deal.

Hey Kex,

I I were you, I'd PM Wooch & edtyct.

[kexodusc]

I think that a projector is in his future plans, but wants something to hold him over till it's a done deal.

Hey Kex,

I I were you, I'd PM Wooch & edtyct.

Pff...I don't PM my own questions

Ed and Wooch will respond eventually with enough bumps..

Seriously guys, let me make it clear - the projector is gonna happen later - they'll need a TV set as well...we already considered going with just the projector...won't work well for their needs.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Custo...Review.do#tabs

I have the 65" version and it is so good with HD-DVD that I will bet that almost nothing at any price range will offer the shadow detail, sharpness, and brightness in one package. It is just so great to know that all the blacks will be black and so little tweaking will ever be necessary to get amazing picture quality. If watching 1080p sources in 1080i is the goal than look no further than that TV. You might just be able to find the 57" or 65" versions if you look hard enough on the web. CRT still is the best for movie watching. Get a Hitachi CRT RP HDTV and a Toshiba HD-DVD player for the best home theater value in the industry.

[kexodusc]

Geez, I didn't think they still sold those RPTV's. They're a rare find in stores I visit these days...
I dunno...as much as I do like the picture quality, I don't want to feel like I'm buying them old technology...hmmm...I'm starting to get the feeling that I might actually have to *sigh* take them shopping for this...
Ugh...

[Rich-n-Texas]

And the winner is?

Do we have a winner yet?

My vote would be for a 720p DLP RP. You'd be surprised how light-weight they are... easy to move from room to room.

[kexodusc]

And the winner is?

Do we have a winner yet?

My vote would be for a 720p DLP RP. You'd be surprised how light-weight they are... easy to move from room to room.

No winner yet, but I do have an update of sorts - I had to let them know I was buying them a TV. Turns out they're going to buy a projector sooner rather than later. They were just planning on using the old 32" for tv watching, which ain't gonna cut it for sports.
Ugh...this was met with a lot of criticism at first. No way would they accept it. Then they wanted me to buy a few trees for the yard instead of a TV...Anyway, they've agreed to let me get the TV, but they've demanded I cap the budget now. Okay, no problem. Based on what I can spend, I'm looking at DLP or rear projection LCD's now. Not a bad thing I guess for the amount of TV they watch.

So DLP or LCD? Based on 1 store, LCD projection actually looked just a tiny bit better to me - seems they've fixed those screen door artifacts I remember seeing a few years ago. The blacks still look dark grey at times though. I hate the super fluorescent lighting stores have though.

[GMichael]

No winner yet, but I do have an update of sorts - I had to let them know I was buying them a TV. Turns out they're going to buy a projector sooner rather than later. They were just planning on using the old 32" for tv watching, which ain't gonna cut it for sports.
Ugh...this was met with a lot of criticism at first. No way would they accept it. Then they wanted me to buy a few trees for the yard instead of a TV...Anyway, they've agreed to let me get the TV, but they've demanded I cap the budget now. Okay, no problem. Based on what I can spend, I'm looking at DLP or rear projection LCD's now. Not a bad thing I guess for the amount of TV they watch.

So DLP or LCD? Based on 1 store, LCD projection actually looked just a tiny bit better to me - seems they've fixed those screen door artifacts I remember seeing a few years ago. The blacks still look dark grey at times though. I hate the super fluorescent lighting stores have though.

I've heard good & bad on both sides. The DLP's I saw seemed better than the LCD's that I saw. But it could all be in how they were set up.
If you do want to go the DLP route, you'll want to get the folks to watch one for a while to see if they get headaches. It's only happens for some small % of veiwers, but you may as well make sure.

Uh, me giving advice to Kex? I don't think I like this.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...Then they wanted me to buy a few trees for the yard instead of a TV...

Grown-ups, whaddaya gonna do.

Anyway, they've agreed to let me get the TV, but they've demanded I cap the budget now. Okay, no problem. Based on what I can spend, I'm looking at DLP or rear projection LCD's now. Not a bad thing I guess for the amount of TV they watch.

So DLP or LCD? Based on 1 store, LCD projection actually looked just a tiny bit better to me - seems they've fixed those screen door artifacts I remember seeing a few years ago. The blacks still look dark grey at times though. I hate the super fluorescent lighting stores have though.

FWIW, while looking for a printer cartridge for my old HP 952 at Circuit City ($50.00... yeah, okay!) I strolled over to the TV section and it seemed to me there were a lot more plasma & LCD TV's than DLP RP's. DLP's are coming into a new generation now with LED's instead of bulbs and color wheels; probably over your budget at this time but I'd think you'd be able to find a 50" 720p set for a pretty good price. Oh and BTW, I asked the college freshman kid with a lot of hair gel if they had a Visio set out on display. He walked me over to the only one in the store; told me they keep one on hand because they're cheap (you see, the.. what I'd call *clientel* at this particular CC aren't exactly in the middle class of society, so to speak). First thing I noticed while looking at the picture was a flashing red pixel. To tell ya the truth that's the first time I've ever seen a bad pixel.

[kexodusc]

I've heard good & bad on both sides. The DLP's I saw seemed better than the LCD's that I saw. But it could all be in how they were set up.
If you do want to go the DLP route, you'll want to get the folks to watch one for a while to see if they get headaches. It's only happens for some small % of veiwers, but you may as well make sure.

Uh, me giving advice to Kex? I don't think I like this.

Hmmm, hadn't thought about the headache thing. Haven't heard of it in years. We're going TV shopping together so they'll see what they're buying.

I'm not too worried about this purchase - a 50" - 55" LCD/DLP TV with HD is gonna smoke their 10 year old 32" unit. No comparison.

LCD does sorta scare me with the whole dead-pixel thing. I'm told it's so infrequent and unheard of beyond the first few weeks as to be a non-issue, but it'd drive me nuts if in 2 years I had a few black spots on my screen. DLP's I saw still did the rainbow color streak thing on the space movie they were displaying.

Uggghhh!...shopping with my folks is like getting stuck in line at the ATM behind a 92 year old lady - what has kex got himself into?

[topspeed]

Okay, you've referred to the football thing a few times now, and with that in mind I would seriously reconsider the LCD route. In my experience, the refresh rates can't keep up with the fast paced action, thus you get the dreaded screen door effect (SDE). Now maybe I'm just really attuned to it, but I have yet to see a LCD set, whether direct view Sony Bravia's or rptv Sammy's, that don't suffer from SDE. If you like football, you'll hate LCD.

For the set size you're looking at, you'll likely end up with an rptv. To me, the only two choices are either LED DLP or LCoS. The LED engine shouldn't be discounted as it requires no fans, no warm up time, no cool down time, and lasts a heckuva lot longer than the standard halogen bulbs. You can get a 50" Sammy LED DLP for under $2K from tvauthority.com (where I got mine) right now. While I'm not a huge fan of Sammy due to QC issues, they were first to market with the new engine and seem to have amortized the cost the quickest.

That said, I still prefer three chip LCoS based sets. JVC's HDiLA and Sony's SXRD are the two most prominent, with the former being proclaimed by TPV as the Best On The Planet. Better color saturation, better refresh rate, no spinning wheel, no wobulation, more film-like presentation, and by far the best in rooms with a lot of ambient light. In addition, on SD material LCoS does the best job of not murdering the picture. Make no mistake, there isn't a fpd out there that does SD well, but some have a knack for really butchering it. LCD being the most noteable offender. BTW, if it matters, LCoS is what was chosen by L.J., avmaster, robert (projectors), edyct, and yours truly.

Be careful when you're shopping. A lot of places will intentionally set specific sets to "kill" to make them look better than the set next to them.

I can feel your pain, Kex. I'm helping a friend install a new HT and his primary concern is finding a center that will fit in the 7" space above his new set! At least he pre-wired all of his speakers during construction. 'Course, he put the wires in the ceiling...

Good luck in your search and I hope this helps.

[GMichael]

Hmmm, hadn't thought about the headache thing. Haven't heard of it in years. We're going TV shopping together so they'll see what they're buying.

I'm not too worried about this purchase - a 50" - 55" LCD/DLP TV with HD is gonna smoke their 10 year old 32" unit. No comparison.

LCD does sorta scare me with the whole dead-pixel thing. I'm told it's so infrequent and unheard of beyond the first few weeks as to be a non-issue, but it'd drive me nuts if in 2 years I had a few black spots on my screen. DLP's I saw still did the rainbow color streak thing on the space movie they were displaying.

Uggghhh!...shopping with my folks is like getting stuck in line at the ATM behind a 92 year old lady - what has kex got himself into?

With the 2x, 4x and 6x wheels out there, I don't think it's as bad as it was. But it never hurts to make sure. What models did you see the rainbow on? Do you know their wheel speeds? I've heard that when someone can see those, others in the same family often can as well.
I also agree that LCoS is the best of both worlds. But there's a price to pay for the budget minded.

[kexodusc]

With the 2x, 4x and 6x wheels out there, I don't think it's as bad as it was. But it never hurts to make sure. What models did you see the rainbow on? Do you know their wheel speeds? I've heard that when someone can see those, others in the same family often can as well.
I also agree that LCoS is the best of both worlds. But there's a price to pay for the budget minded.

LOL! I don't even know what wheel speed is. I saw the Rainbow on a farily highly regarded Samsung (don't remember the model, but it looked great otherwise, and the rainbow wasn't a big deal).

[kexodusc]

Okay, you've referred to the football thing a few times now, and with that in mind I would seriously reconsider the LCD route. In my experience, the refresh rates can't keep up with the fast paced action, thus you get the dreaded screen door effect (SDE). Now maybe I'm just really attuned to it, but I have yet to see a LCD set, whether direct view Sony Bravia's or rptv Sammy's, that don't suffer from SDE. If you like football, you'll hate LCD.

Hmmm....I watched a ball game, some sports highlights and didn't notice the SDE. Might not have been demanding enough. Any suggestions on a DVD I could try out? These seem to outnumber LCoS and DLP (at least in the stores I've visited). Is it just because they're cheaper?

For the set size you're looking at, you'll likely end up with an rptv. To me, the only two choices are either LED DLP or LCoS. The LED engine shouldn't be discounted as it requires no fans, no warm up time, no cool down time, and lasts a heckuva lot longer than the standard halogen bulbs. You can get a 50" Sammy LED DLP for under $2K from tvauthority.com (where I got mine) right now. While I'm not a huge fan of Sammy due to QC issues, they were first to market with the new engine and seem to have amortized the cost the quickest.

Noted...

That said, I still prefer three chip LCoS based sets. JVC's HDiLA and Sony's SXRD are the two most prominent, with the former being proclaimed by TPV as the Best On The Planet. Better color saturation, better refresh rate, no spinning wheel, no wobulation, more film-like presentation, and by far the best in rooms with a lot of ambient light. In addition, on SD material LCoS does the best job of not murdering the picture. Make no mistake, there isn't a fpd out there that does SD well, but some have a knack for really butchering it. LCD being the most noteable offender. BTW, if it matters, LCoS is what was chosen by L.J., avmaster, robert (projectors), edyct, and yours truly.

That 5 card hand beats a royal flush anyday!

Be careful when you're shopping. A lot of places will intentionally set specific sets to "kill" to make them look better than the set next to them.

Oh yeah, I've noticed the torch mode galore. I've learned a lot of the codes to unlock brands so I can tone down the settings, turn off those goofy pciture features, etc. That's when the sales kids come charging over like I'm gonna load it on a truck.

I can feel your pain, Kex. I'm helping a friend install a new HT and his primary concern is finding a center that will fit in the 7" space above his new set! At least he pre-wired all of his speakers during construction. 'Course, he put the wires in the ceiling...

Good luck in your search and I hope this helps.

Thanks Topspeed - Mom and Dad mean well, but they're so hard to shop for. I was just going to get one and be done with it, but I thougth I'd better consult. Oh well, I probably saved a mint. I'm definitely going to check out the LCD rear projection sets with some football - another forum I visit more specific to HDTV's sounded a bit more favorable, but a lot of the posters owned those kind.

[AVMASTER]

one question for you about thier HT room, is construction complete? If not whats' the total lenght of this area?

[kexodusc]

one question for you about thier HT room, is construction complete? If not whats' the total lenght of this area?

I don't have the plans with me, but the seats we're very flexible between 8 and 14. I'd guess 20-24 feet long though.... They're aware that the viewing distance should be proportional to the screen size - think they'll end up setting the seats according to the screen's position, not the TV set...that is the set will be further back than normal.

[emorphien]

If they're getting a projector I'd say that an LCD or plasma screen makes sense because once the projector is installed they can more easily relocate the LCD or plasma, such as hang it on a wall somewhere.

[AVMASTER]

about a year ago we had a similiar request but instead of a front projector and another display (for everyday use), we used a 70" Sony XBR SXRD and built a wall around it. The bezel sticks out about a 1 1/4" so the only thing visible was a black framed screen. The LCoS technology provided a wider viewing angle and more vivid color than LCD or DLP. We put all his gear behind the wall and an IR sensor in the ceiling for control. We finished it off with motorized drapes from Makita. My point is that you could accomplish both movie and everyday viewing with a large PRTV (LCoS only IMHO). You should see the new JVCs'. At only 10" deep , it can be wall mount. This display has vertually no bezel and at 58" it's coming in right around 3k. Model # HD-58S998, 65" coming soon!

[pixelthis]

Grown-ups, whaddaya gonna do.


FWIW, while looking for a printer cartridge for my old HP 952 at Circuit City ($50.00... yeah, okay!) I strolled over to the TV section and it seemed to me there were a lot more plasma & LCD TV's than DLP RP's. DLP's are coming into a new generation now with LED's instead of bulbs and color wheels; probably over your budget at this time but I'd think you'd be able to find a 50" 720p set for a pretty good price. Oh and BTW, I asked the college freshman kid with a lot of hair gel if they had a Visio set out on display. He walked me over to the only one in the store; told me they keep one on hand because they're cheap (you see, the.. what I'd call *clientel* at this particular CC aren't exactly in the middle class of society, so to speak). First thing I noticed while looking at the picture was a flashing red pixel. To tell ya the truth that's the first time I've ever seen a bad pixel.

Thats what I keep trying to tellya, rich on paper, those dlp chips your company makes
is going to join the el-cassette, selecta-vision, and eight track tape on the dustbin of
tech history, case in point, half a dozen pages of flat screens at Sams web site and
THREE rear projection sets...TOTAL
As for "red pixel" vizio has a "zero defect" guarentee, send it back and get a new one.
I have a samsung with a "bright pixel" btw
BTW I was looking at the owners manuel of a RCA DLP, and the part about changing the bulb was HILARIOUS.
Have to change it every two years, a grand over ten years, and be carefull about changing it, could cause "INJURY AND EVEN DEATH"!!!

[pixelthis]

btw I read a review of the first dlp powered by LED, the tech you are pinning your
employee owned stocks on, only 4200 bucks and its still 18 inches wide, and gthere is really no reason to buy one