New Price for Behringer Feedback Destroyer

[mjon99]

It can be had at PE for $99.99. Part number 248-656.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=248-656



Below is a link for a new destroyer coming soon.

http://www.behringer.com/FBQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

[kexodusc]

That's great news...Especially since I'm about to buy a BFD.
Thanks for the heads up mjon99...

[Woochifer]

That's great news...Especially since I'm about to buy a BFD.
Thanks for the heads up mjon99...

Better buy it soon. That $100 quote is apparently a closeout price for the current BFD model.

The new version of the BFD that comes out next quarter will list for $200, and that represents an $80 bump up in price. Apparently, Behringer realizes that they've created something that delivers a lot for a ridiculously low price. (Even more ironic is that the parametric EQ function on the BFD is a secondary function)

[cam]

I always shy away from buying over the net and I really, really want a BFD. Are there any retail stores in my area where I can pick one up. I'm in the Vancouver area Canada. Am I poop out of luck or do I have to bite the bullet and give my CC # over the net and then worry whether or not I get my # ripped off and never receive my BFD or should I just take a pill and relax.

[kexodusc]

Camster, most credit cards have internet protection of various sorts that limits your liability in the even someone gets a hold of your cc# and starts buying porno, liquor, and nachos.
I and thousands of others have done the internet thing with Parts Express for years now, without issue...they are absolutely fantastic.

Word of advice from one Canadian to another...ask PE to ship Priority Post to save you from paying customs brokerage, etc...you'll pay GST, that's it...Fed Ex and UPS will charge you $35 - $40 USD for basically telling customs what's in the package.
Go for it dude (but wait till I get my order confirmation).

[cam]

I looked at the specs on the outgoing and the new one and I'm thinking about getting the newer model even though it costs more. Let me know how it works once you get it up and running.

[mjon99]

Better buy it soon. That $100 quote is apparently a closeout price for the current BFD model.

The new version of the BFD that comes out next quarter will list for $200, and that represents an $80 bump up in price. Apparently, Behringer realizes that they've created something that delivers a lot for a ridiculously low price. (Even more ironic is that the parametric EQ function on the BFD is a secondary function)

I've always thought of the BFD for musical applications so I never really considered it for HT. Do you (or anyone for that matter) think it would also benefit HT? I rarely, if ever, listen to music with my set up. Now that the BFD is $100 I'm starting to second guess myself.

[tly]

Yes, I too am wondering if this is useful for the average HT setup?

tks for the info all!

Ty

[kexodusc]

The BFD's Parametric EQ allows you to compensate for peaks and troughs in the bass response caused by room acoustics....very substantial IMO...take an SPL meter and I'm quite confident you will find a +/- response between 20 and 80 Hz of greater than 15 dB, in my room it's 24 dB....
This all room induced...
Smoothing that out does wonders. I've had the opportunity to hear the difference, and as Wooch said, it's like getting a new, better subwoofer.

Cam, what does the newer model offer that the current one doesn't have?

[mjon99]

The BFD's Parametric EQ allows you to compensate for peaks and troughs in the bass response caused by room acoustics....very substantial IMO...take an SPL meter and I'm quite confident you will find a +/- response between 20 and 80 Hz of greater than 15 dB, in my room it's 24 dB....
This all room induced...
Smoothing that out does wonders. I've had the opportunity to hear the difference, and as Wooch said, it's like getting a new, better subwoofer.

Cam, what does the newer model offer that the current one doesn't have?

I hear from several people on this website, as well as many others, that its benefit to music is almost "night and day". But does it really matter if the bass track on a DVD is smoothed out and accurate? I'd be able to tell boomy bass while listening to music but from an HT standpoint I don't think I would be able to notice boominess (is that even a word?) that's not intended.

Kex, I also posted this thread in the speaker section since I didn't know if people look at only one or the other. Wooch responded with his thoughts of the new one coming out. Hope it clarifies some things. The link is below.

New Price for Behringer Feedback Destroyer

[kexodusc]

But does it really matter if the bass track on a DVD is smoothed out and accurate? I'd be able to tell boomy bass while listening to music but from an HT standpoint I don't think I would be able to notice boominess (is that even a word?) that's not intended.

Abso-freakin'-lutely...
Consider this....In a typical room our listener has a few peaks and dips in the bass. At 20-25 Hz, the bass is down, say -9 dB, not uncommon. It evens out around 30 Hz, then starts peaking at 50-60 Hz, where the volume is considerably higher than the average signal, say 12 dB.
What this does, is causes you to lower the volume of the sub to the level of the highest volume (or suffer through annoying mega-boominess). The result either way is that you end up hearing too much sloppy, inaccurate bass, or not enough of the intended signal. No matter what you do you are only hearing a small portion of the bass at the intended volume.

You wouldn't buy a speaker that had a rating of +/- 12 dB from 100 Hz to 20 kHz, why would subject yourself to that kind of presentation for the bass frequency range. You are depriving yourself of impact, extension, bass definition, and general sound quality. My brief experience with the BFD turned an inexpensive subwoofer that I found to be muddy, with one bass note, into something capable of delivering different bass tones from about 32 Hz to 80 Hz.
On many DVD soundtracks, with cars, jets, space ships, the bass frequencies often tell the listener how close or far away an object is not just by volume, but by the tone that you hear.

It's a very interesting exercise to undertake.

Kex, I also posted this thread in the speaker section since I didn't know if people look at only one or the other. Wooch responded with his thoughts of the new one coming out. Hope it clarifies some things. The link is below.

New Price for Behringer Feedback Destroyer

Thanks.

[mjon99]

What this does, is causes you to lower the volume of the sub to the level of the highest volume (or suffer through annoying mega-boominess). The result either way is that you end up hearing too much sloppy, inaccurate bass, or not enough of the intended signal. No matter what you do you are only hearing a small portion of the bass at the intended volume.

Great point! That never even occured to me. I think you just convinced me to spend $100.

[kexodusc]

I think you just convinced me to spend $100.

And that's really what this hobby is all about...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I looked at the specs on the outgoing and the new one and I'm thinking about getting the newer model even though it costs more. Let me know how it works once you get it up and running.

Cam,
The older one will work a well as the newer one, except it is cheaper. The newer one operates at 24/96khz, great for live mixing solutions, but not necessary for acoustical correction in the bass frequencies. Our ears(in the bass region) would not hear any improvement the new higher sample rate would impart.

The old one has all the filtering you would need to correct any bass problems in small rooms. The new one is a overkill of epic proportions, and is definately aimed at the live mixing crowd. No one needs 24 filters to correct room modes and nodes in small rooms, I only used two filters of the twelve I have, and I have two big subs in opposite corners. I have ten filters left and nothing to do with them.

Get the cheaper one man, it has all you need(and some) for one hundred measly bucks.

[cam]

Cam,
The older one will work a well as the newer one, except it is cheaper. The newer one operates at 24/96khz, great for live mixing solutions, but not necessary for acoustical correction in the bass frequencies. Our ears(in the bass region) would not hear any improvement the new higher sample rate would impart.

The old one has all the filtering you would need to correct any bass problems in small rooms. The new one is a overkill of epic proportions, and is definately aimed at the live mixing crowd. No one needs 24 filters to correct room modes and nodes in small rooms, I only used two filters of the twelve I have, and I have two big subs in opposite corners. I have ten filters left and nothing to do with them.

Get the cheaper one man, it has all you need(and some) for one hundred measly bucks.

Thanks for the heads up SIR TT. I was just thinking it had more not knowing whether it was overkill of epic proportions as you stated. I in the past have bought last years model and then wished I would have bought this years model because of some useful additions, but I guess this would be the perfect senerio to save some money on the last years model.

[Woochifer]

I always shy away from buying over the net and I really, really want a BFD. Are there any retail stores in my area where I can pick one up. I'm in the Vancouver area Canada. Am I poop out of luck or do I have to bite the bullet and give my CC # over the net and then worry whether or not I get my # ripped off and never receive my BFD or should I just take a pill and relax.

The places that carry Behringer products are primarily musical instrument stores and other retailers that stock professional audio gear. I bought my BFD from Musician's Friend, and they are a legitimate e-tailer.

As far as whether or not to wait for the new (and more expensive) version of the BFD, Terrence is right in that the upgrades on the new version won't amount to much if you intend to use it only with your subwoofer. But, you might be able to detect a difference if you use the BFD to EQ your main channels. Others who've tried the BFD with two-channel separates have indicated that it has audible noise, and colors the sound in the midrange and highs. The new 96/24 DACs and faster DSP processors that come with the upcoming version of the BFD might help remedy those issues, but again, they're only issues if you plan to use the BFD to EQ the full range.

[cam]

A quick question for you there Wooch if you don't mind, if the BFD works that good, would it maybe be better to cross over your sub at 100 or even 120hz instead of the typical 80 hz. That way you could have smooth bass up to 120 hz and alleviate your receiver and mains center and surrounds from the lower stuff therefore creating more headroom with your mains center and surrounds.

[Woochifer]

A quick question for you there Wooch if you don't mind, if the BFD works that good, would it maybe be better to cross over your sub at 100 or even 120hz instead of the typical 80 hz. That way you could have smooth bass up to 120 hz and alleviate your receiver and mains center and surrounds from the lower stuff therefore creating more headroom with your mains center and surrounds.

Probably not. The only reason to bump up the crossover frequency to 120 Hz would be if your speakers cannot handle the frequencies down to 80 Hz. Shifting the lowest octaves over to the subwoofer helps out by transferring those duties away from the main amp and speakers. I think that one of the biggest benefits is that you get eliminate working your system in a way that creates no audible benefit. These are generally the sounds below the tuned port frequency on your speakers. Your amp works to generate those sounds, and the cones on the speakers vibrate, but if the sounds go below the tuned port frequency, then all of that work is wasted, creates no audible benefit, and has detrimental effects to the rest of the frequency range because there's a lot of undamped cone movement once you go below the port frequency.

80 Hz is generally considered the point at which the lower frequencies start to sound nondirectional. Going with a higher crossover frequency would likely cause the subwoofer to give away its location, which is precisely what you're trying to avoid with in a subwoofer setup. My older Yamaha receiver crosses over the bass at 90 Hz, and there are occasions where the subwoofer gives itself away (typically with sounds right around the crossover point). The BFD helps with the integration by toning down the peaks that occur closer to the crossover point, including some peaks that might occur above the crossover frequency (you want to make sure that the crossover slope smoothly declines with no sudden rises in response curve). My room created a +12 db peak at 88 Hz, which created a huge integration problem before the BFD toned that peak down. Even with an 80 Hz crossover point, the BFD would help with the integration by keeping the crossover slope a gradual decline rather than something with dips and peaks.