The NEW Adire Rava MKII subwoofer ...

[drseid]

I'm not too sure I"m liking where things are going though - high xmax, high power output - marketing is driving the demand for subs now as consumers are focusing too much on the sexy numbers and not necessarily on pragmatism. I don't listen to music at 105 dB sustained for hours at a time, nor do I hear down to 15 Hz. These benefits are impressive on paper, but in my listening tests don't add anything to the experience...well the room shakes a bit more, maybe.

Yes, I agree that for music (at least for me) that would indeed be overkill, even for some aggresive Rock tracks. As far as I am concerned, if the sub can blend in with the mains and keep pace with the music properly without calling attention to itself... then it is getting the job done. Now with *HT* I could see someone wanting the big SPL capabilities (at least for peaks).

Ironically, that is all I use my sub for now (HT LFE track)... Still, 105 db would be "neighbors are ready to kill you" loud. :-)

---Dave

[kexodusc]

Yes, I agree that for music (at least for me) that would indeed be overkill, even for some aggresive Rock tracks. As far as I am concerned, if the sub can blend in with the mains and keep pace with the music properly without calling attention to itself... then it is getting the job done. Now with *HT* I could see someone wanting the big SPL capabilities (at least for peaks).

Ironically, that is all I use my sub for now (HT LFE track)... Still, 105 db would be "neighbors are ready to kill you" loud. :-)

---Dave

I agree - in fact, when building my sub I deliberately chose a woofer that wasn't designed for 120 dB volumes, but instead concentrated it's design on sound quality. Not that it won't go loud enough for me, I hit 107 dB in room with a 20 Hz test tone which is ear bleeding loud (anything below 18 Hz and the plate amp cuts the signal off to prevent clipping). It does the job admirably, sounding better than woofers from the same manufacturer that are 3 times it's price. Most people just buy 2 if they really need the high out put and still save money.
Subs have really turned into a horsepower race in recent years, and more and more companies seem to be fixated on max SPL at 20Hz.

Most of my loud listening is in the low/mid 80's dB with the odd peak in mid 90's. That leaves plenty of headroom. These guys that need the 115 dB subwoofers have probably shot their hearing after years of abuse and have a 35 dB impairment.

It's easy for us to get carried away, but after years of chasing audio trends in my youth, spending way more money than I should have, I've learned to build my system to meet my needs with a bit of extra headroom, rather than to purchase wasted, unused potential.
Sounds like you're on the right track with the Titan II as well.

[Easy E]

I have been reading this thread, didnt read it all through. First off Adire went from a direct/dealer network to a pure dealer network. You can contact your favorite dealer and ask them about the Rava. Adire went to a MSRP setup, I know I am not selling at MSRP for Adire products and I know a few other dealers arent either.... Now about the Rava 2, from what I have speculated, it could be a koda 12 driver. Dont take my word on it, could be a modified Koda 12 but something around that specs is what Adire is aiming for. If you have and Adire questions feel free to ask and I will try to answer them since I am probally the onle one here that can represent for Adire, as I being a dealer and all.

[Peter Marcks]

Dear gentlemen,

Ported vs sealed is a classic case of tradeoff by any given designer. We use ported systems because our goal is to achieve as flat a power response as possible in the general operating range, even approaching maximum output of the sub, for as low a cost as possible. With port contribution, driver excursion demands can be significantly reduced at certain points above tuning. The tradeoff is significantly different behavior below the cutoff frequency (hence the need for subsonic filtering with ported designs). Also, port noise can be a limiting factor, in addition to port length that can fit into any given box size to affect low frequency tuning.

That said, bass tends not to be very transient at the lowest frequencies. A ported subwoofer with a very low tuning point tends to act much liked a sealed subwoofer system in the frequency range where bass is transient. The main difficulty in implementing this is that port length needs to be extremely long in order to achieve a very low tune using a large amount of port area in a box size that is acceptable to most consumers. In an attempt to remove or relieve some of these tradeoffs, we plan to offer two things: one, we plan to offer a sealed mode with custom eq since some people prefer this, where all one need to do is plug all the port(s) and adjust amplifier settings accordingly; two, we plan to offer a turbocharger add-on that essentially extends port length without dramatically increasing enclosure size and without reducing available port flow area. Hopefully consumers will be pleased with the choice.

On an aside, I must say that things have been cleaned up at the Hsu forum. The past few months of postings at our forum is evidence of this. Everyone is welcome to contribute, as we all need to be helpful and supportive to the best of our ability.

Sincerely,

Peter Marcks
Hsu Research

[kexodusc]

Peter, I'd love to see Hsu offer a sealed design, though I can appreciate how difficult it would be to create and offer yet another product while keeping it affordable and versatile.

However, I think offering good ported designs is a safe approach for most sub manufacturers. Most people tend to use their subs for home theater AND music, not one or the other exclusively. And I believe the bulk of your customers would prefer smaller box sizes than 15" woofer would require. Furthermore, a the cost 12" driver in a sealed cabinet capable of reaching the low 20 Hz region with high SPL capabilities is probably prohibitive to many of your buyers.

I dare say there are not many 12" sealed subs capable of high SPL's with response in the low 20's that are available at the low price points your products are at. There's not many sealed cabinet options period, truth be told. This could be a niche market to consider (hint, hint), though it doesn't seem as popular with todays "big numbers are better" crowd.

I must say, I did enjoy my VTF-2 while I had it, and though my needs have grown, I still recommend it to others.
I'm curious - could you give us a ball park of how much you'd expect the port plugs to affect the maximum output of the subwoofer? Especially if the cabinet volume remains the same...we generally see sealed cabinets at much smaller size than ported cabinets. Any fears of exceeding the excursion limits for the woofer with this approach?

I've seen other companies abandon this approach just to protect their customers from over powering the woofer when the system is sealed with plugs. Educating consumers is sometimes quite difficult. Would you anticipate this to be a problem? Maybe soft-clipping circuitry in the amp?

Thanks,

[Peter Marcks]

Dear kexodusc,

We definitely have a good sense of how output changes when moving from maximum output mode (two ports open) to maximum extension mode (one port open). This tends to be about 2-3db's when using the 10% harmonic distortion limit. How these modes compare to the sealed mode (zero ports open) is uncharted territory. We hope to have these new units reviewed by professional reviewers who will document differences in clean output capability. So definitely stay tuned! Now, with regards to protection for the woofer from overexcursion when in sealed mode, it should not be a problem as long as the amplifier has protection built-in. Have faith my friend

Sincerely,

Peter Marcks
Hsu Research